3rivers Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 He dominates at times, and is a force most of the other times. What type of deal do you expect teams to offer him, how many years and estimated total$ ? I was thinking that the FO might have to decided between Hargrave and Dupree, while in the past I thought (for some reason) they will make Dupree priority #1. If in fact they opt to choose one over the other due to the cap restraints it will be interesting to see how they can match other offers I am seeing him getting a good contract. It would be nice to keep both, but will they be able to? Which market will be in more demand int he 2020 offseason, edge or DT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurgan Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 I have been working on this for my Mock Offseason I was planning around Thanksgiving. If you look at sportstrac, he compares favorably to Danny Shelton, who's 'market value' is 5.9 million. When I did mock free agency on Fanspeak, he signed with Tampa Bay for 6.9 million for two years. I know none of these are scientific and neither factor in signing bonuses and whatnot. Since I am not a capologist, I have pegged him as a 8-10million a year. I would think someone would hand him that to play a full time 3-tech on a 4-3 team. As opposed to 30% snaps in base, and SOME nickel work (or now when Tuitt is injured). I would imagine the contract would have playing time bonuses and such that he is paid the more he plays. I see NO way that they can keep both. Dupree is going to be a 15-17million a year player, based on production and position. I mean, I guess it is technically possible, but by either making Ben a $35 million player in 2021 OR cutting/trading some guys (Heyward, Tuitt, VWill) that I just don't see happening. As much as I LOVE gravedigger, he would be the easiest to replace. Dupree would be impossible with a rookie 2nd rounder, and scraps of FA. If you let Hargrave walk, you could bring in a Billings or Shelton for 1/2 the price to play the 30% of snaps. Then use a 4th on a 1 tech to compete with McCullers as the backup. Edge is always a bigger priority. You are going to have the Clowney/Barrett/Fowler level that we will not be able to shop at, then the next level with guys like Dupree, Judon, Calhoun, and like Nassib. Cheap options are going to be guys like Terrell Suggs, Lorenzo Alexander and like Bruce Irvin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 All depends on if he sells himself as a NT or a 3-tech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 6 hours ago, kurgan said: As much as I LOVE gravedigger, he would be the easiest to replace. Dupree would be impossible with a rookie 2nd rounder, and scraps of FA. If you let Hargrave walk, you could bring in a Billings or Shelton for 1/2 the price to play the 30% of snaps. I see Hargave as an elite DT in passing downs. Are Shelton/Billings that? I thought they were more the run defenders, a different role for the defence. 6 hours ago, kurgan said: Edge is always a bigger priority. You are going to have the Clowney/Barrett/Fowler level that we will not be able to shop at, then the next level with guys like Dupree, Judon, Calhoun, and like Nassib. Cheap options are going to be guys like Terrell Suggs, Lorenzo Alexander and like Bruce Irvin. I used to think this as well, but when you look at how Donald has changed the perception of DT's, I have recently reconsidered. Hargrave really collapses the pocket, so to me that is more disruptive vs pocket passers. The way I see it, If this team was able to keep Bud and Hargrave and Tuitt returns healthy, it would only take a decent offence to compete with anyone. This front really gets the pressure, but watch Hargave , nobody can control him on passing downs, it's a downhill crash course. I know the league has many higher rated DT's than Hargrave, but he is a player that often collapses the pocket and is disruptive . It compliments the rest of the front really well, just watch the chaos , OL's don't have an answer for it and IMO there is no need to blitz at all. Maybe send Hilton once in a while to keep him happy, but other than that I wouldn't ever consider it . NO WAY Heyward or Tuitt gets traded. Tuitt , maybe due to the injury, but he was actually the best DL this year pre injury, such a shame that happened. A rotation with Tuitt, Heyward and Hargrave at DT would be a threat to any OL. 4 hours ago, jebrick said: All depends on if he sells himself as a NT or a 3-tech what would you expect the avg annual salary for him at either NT or 3-tech? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Good 3-tech should get 8+million per year. NT should get about 5M per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurgan Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 16 hours ago, 3rivers said: Hargrave really collapses the pocket, so to me that is more disruptive vs pocket passers. The way I see it, If this team was able to keep Bud and Hargrave and Tuitt returns healthy, it would only take a decent offence to compete with anyone. This front really gets the pressure, but watch Hargave , nobody can control him on passing downs, it's a downhill crash course. I know the league has many higher rated DT's than Hargrave, but he is a player that often collapses the pocket and is disruptive . These are all the reasons that we are not going to be able to afford him. You are correct in what you are saying, and he is going to paid for it. I would not put him on a Donald level, but he is emerging. I would LOVE to bring him back, but there is also the hurdle of PT. If Tuitt does not get hurt, he hovers at 30-40% snaps. He is up now, but when everyone is healthy, he does not get the numbers. I can totally see a team that needs a good 3 tech swooping in and paying him 8-10 easy. Then we will have to decide if we want to pay that much for a 30-40% player. I just don't see it happening, unless... we do EVERYTHING we can to win in 2020 and live in salary cap purgatory for 2-3 years. 16 hours ago, 3rivers said: I see Hargave as an elite DT in passing downs. Are Shelton/Billings that? I thought they were more the run defenders, a different role for the defence. That is correct.... Billings/Shelton are NG pluggers for our base D, which we run 30% of the time. In nickel, it is Heyward and Tuitt. Hargrave comes off. I honestly think it comes down to Dupree OR Hargrave. Unless the FO can talk someone into taking a pay cut or deferring money or something. ALl things being equal, I would LOVE to have Hargrave back, but even I can't see myself on 10m for a 40% player. There would have to be a plan to USE him in subpackages or something. Of course, then that also means we left with a rookie 2nd rounder and some vet castoff as OLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 22 hours ago, jebrick said: Good 3-tech should get 8+million per year. NT should get about 5M per year. I think this is a reasonable plea to colbert, sign Hargrave for $8M and be set at DT for years even if a player is on the injury report. 7 hours ago, kurgan said: That is correct.... Billings/Shelton are NG pluggers for our base D, which we run 30% of the time. In nickel, it is Heyward and Tuitt. Hargrave comes off. lately Hargrave has played more passing downs, this is actually where he is a force and at time dominant . This is what I hope they have him play more of , he disrupts the OL's blocking in the passing game in a severe way and everyone else benefits. He might not have the stats, but just observe what happens when they rush him in passing plays, the pocket collapses all the time Maybe it's worth a poll, but can/will the steelers keep both Hargrave and Dupree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 23 hours ago, jebrick said: Good 3-tech should get 8+million per year. NT should get about 5M per year. is this full time or 40% time type players? What are you currently expecting Hargrave to get offered by other teams in UFA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurgan Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 15 hours ago, 3rivers said: lately Hargrave has played more passing downs, this is actually where he is a force and at time dominant . Only because Tuitt is injured. When all are healthy, Hargrave's snap counts are low... only in base and rarely in nickel. They had been using Alualu more than Hargrave as a sub for Heyward/Tuitt. But both of them play north of 85% of the snaps in subpackages. Now, I would hope we could get him and USE him to keep the snaps down on Heyward/Tuitt, but I just cannot see it under this regime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 16 hours ago, 3rivers said: is this full time or 40% time type players? What are you currently expecting Hargrave to get offered by other teams in UFA? IMHO, any team that makes him an offer will be as a full time 3-tech. He does not offer anything as a NT in a 4-3 or hybrid front. The offer might be lower than we would think due to a team having to project him into the role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurgan Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 18 minutes ago, jebrick said: 16 hours ago, 3rivers said: IMHO, any team that makes him an offer will be as a full time 3-tech. He does not offer anything as a NT in a 4-3 or hybrid front. The offer might be lower than we would think due to a team having to project him into the role. Agree on the 3-tech part. I can def see someone like Tampa Bay, Tennessee or Arizona coming along and seeing him as the starting 3-tech that plays 80% of the snaps. I HOPE the offer is lower, because if it is 6-7m, I'd resign him in a second IF he is willing to play 40% of the snaps. That would MAKE my offseason. I just fear someone is going to look at him as a 11-12m AAV guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 7 hours ago, kurgan said: Agree on the 3-tech part. I can def see someone like Tampa Bay, Tennessee or Arizona coming along and seeing him as the starting 3-tech that plays 80% of the snaps. I HOPE the offer is lower, because if it is 6-7m, I'd resign him in a second IF he is willing to play 40% of the snaps. That would MAKE my offseason. I just fear someone is going to look at him as a 11-12m AAV guy. I was thinking he might get an offer from a bad team that has the $ at around $10M, but maybe not. Teams might look to the draft (is DT good in the draft?) or other UFA's. I am hoping Hargrave and Dupree get signed more than anything for the offseason. I am not pinning hopes on the draft, too much hit and miss for me. These 2 have been solid teammates, never an issue, so keep them for the next 4+ years and dominate on defence for 4+ years, that seems right to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 I got a feeling what's going to happen is the same thing that happened with Snacks. Go off to another team, become a stud, and the comments of why didn't he see the field with us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurgan Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 True.... He is only going to get better and be a beast for whomever he plays for. Hopefully it is us, but I just don't see how that is even possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted November 16, 2019 Author Share Posted November 16, 2019 I was expecting Hargrave to have a better game last night. The DFL looked tired, maybe they really needed more rest after all the pass rushing from the rams game, too bad, what a waste of a game last night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.