NYRaider Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 The defense would be sick for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 12 hours ago, OG_C2X said: OBJ is a beast. Top 3 WR in football when he doesn't have dog**** Baker Mayfield as his QB. Baker is trash has always been trash and always will be trash. I think he will be happy with Gruden. Carr isn't "middling". Gruden and Carr will get OBJ the ball and get it to him often. I get the concept. I just can't imagine trading a 1 for another WR with baggage. Not after the AB drama unfolded. Not comparing the two players, but a me first WR doesn't feel like the best idea for this franchise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OG_C2X Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: I get the concept. I just can't imagine trading a 1 for another WR with baggage. Not after the AB drama unfolded. Not comparing the two players, but a me first WR doesn't feel like the best idea for this franchise. I get the reservations due to last years AB experience. But I think we would feature him more then he was anywhere before. It will open up our offense immediately. A rookie WR may take time to show his effect on the rest of the team. OBJ will immediately take the focus off Waller, Jacobs and Renefrow and open up our offense. A rookie WR might be able to have that effect down the road. I think the next 2 or 3 years is our sweet spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, OG_C2X said: I get the reservations due to last years AB experience. But I think we would feature him more then he was anywhere before. It will open up our offense immediately. A rookie WR may take time to show his effect on the rest of the team. OBJ will immediately take the focus off Waller, Jacobs and Renefrow and open up our offense. A rookie WR might be able to have that effect down the road. I think the next 2 or 3 years is our sweet spot. I have zero faith that Carr would be able to get OBJ the ball enough to keep him happy. And then what happens? Dude was literally on the field telling other teams to come get him after like 8 games in Cleveland. Edited January 3, 2020 by NYRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OG_C2X Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: I have zero faith that Carr would be able to get OBJ the ball enough to keep him happy. And then what happens? Dude was literally on the field telling other teams to come get him after like 8 games in Cleveland. You hate Carr. So that doesn’t surprise me. Luckily no one that matters in the Raiders organization agrees with you. So therefore the rest of your post is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) 57 minutes ago, OG_C2X said: You hate Carr. So that doesn’t surprise me. Luckily no one that matters in the Raiders organization agrees with you. So therefore the rest of your post is irrelevant. Carr couldn't consistently get Amari Cooper the ball. Cooper is a similar player to OBJ and averaged 48 YPG his last twenty games here. Cooper averaged roughly 6 targets per game during that stretch, OBJ averaged like 9 targets per game in Cleveland this year and was still unhappy. Dude doesn't want to play for a bad/rebuilding team. Edited January 3, 2020 by NYRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OG_C2X Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 53 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Carr couldn't consistently get Amari Cooper the ball. Cooper is a similar player to OBJ and averaged 48 YPG his last twenty games here. Cooper averaged roughly 6 targets per game during that stretch, OBJ averaged like 9 targets per game in Cleveland this year and was still unhappy. Dude doesn't want to play for a bad/rebuilding team. Amari Cooper is not even in the same category as OBJ. Amari is the same player in Dallas as he was in Oakland. Amari is the most inconsistent WR in the NFL and IMO has almost ZERO traits in common with OBJ The Raiders are not a bad or Rebuilding team. They are 3 or 4 pieces (WR1 and an impact player on all 3 levels on defense) from being a perennial contender and the most talented Roster the AFC West. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 50 minutes ago, OG_C2X said: Amari Cooper is not even in the same category as OBJ. Amari is the same player in Dallas as he was in Oakland. Amari is the most inconsistent WR in the NFL and IMO has almost ZERO traits in common with OBJ The Raiders are not a bad or Rebuilding team. They are 3 or 4 pieces (WR1 and an impact player on all 3 levels on defense) from being a perennial contender and the most talented Roster the AFC West. Those are some big pieces. And there will be attrition in some areas as there is every year. Will OBJ cause Carr to stop giving up on plays? Will he let OBJ run his route before checking the ball down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, OG_C2X said: Amari Cooper is not even in the same category as OBJ. Amari is the same player in Dallas as he was in Oakland. Amari is the most inconsistent WR in the NFL and IMO has almost ZERO traits in common with OBJ The Raiders are not a bad or Rebuilding team. They are 3 or 4 pieces (WR1 and an impact player on all 3 levels on defense) from being a perennial contender and the most talented Roster the AFC West. OBJ has put up 5 1,000+ yard seasons in 6 years. And for his career he has averaged 77 receptions, 1,085 yards (14.0 YPC), 8 TD. Amari has put up 4 1,000+ yard seasons in 5 years. And for his career has averaged 71 receptions, 1,020 yards (14.2 YPC), 7 TD. I live in a reality driven by facts. The Cooper dragging from Carr supporters has gotten unreal at this point, some even going so far to say that he's not even a true #1 WR. Cooper has produced at an almost identical rate to OBJ but he's not even in the same category? Based on what? We're not 3 or 4 pieces away from being a perennial contender or having the most talented roster in the AFC West. We didn't even beat a team with a winning record all year and looked terrible down the stretch this year. Edited January 3, 2020 by NYRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 11 hours ago, NYRaider said: OBJ has put up 5 1,000+ yard seasons in 6 years. And for his career he has averaged 77 receptions, 1,085 yards (14.0 YPC), 8 TD. Amari has put up 4 1,000+ yard seasons in 5 years. And for his career has averaged 71 receptions, 1,020 yards (14.2 YPC), 7 TD. I live in a reality driven by facts. You don't when you put those averages next to each other without stating that OBJ played all of 4 games in 2017. OBJ has played 75 games in his career. He's averaging 6.2 rec, 87 yds and 0.64 TD per game. Cooper has played 77 games in his career. He's averaging 4.6 rec, 66.2 yds and 0.43 TD per game. Far from identical. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OG_C2X Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 16 hours ago, NYRaider said: OBJ has put up 5 1,000+ yard seasons in 6 years. And for his career he has averaged 77 receptions, 1,085 yards (14.0 YPC), 8 TD. Amari has put up 4 1,000+ yard seasons in 5 years. And for his career has averaged 71 receptions, 1,020 yards (14.2 YPC), 7 TD. I live in a reality driven by facts. The Cooper dragging from Carr supporters has gotten unreal at this point, some even going so far to say that he's not even a true #1 WR. Cooper has produced at an almost identical rate to OBJ but he's not even in the same category? Based on what? We're not 3 or 4 pieces away from being a perennial contender or having the most talented roster in the AFC West. We didn't even beat a team with a winning record all year and looked terrible down the stretch this year. You live in facts when they benefit your narrative. And deny them when they prove you wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 1 hour ago, OG_C2X said: You live in facts when they benefit your narrative. And deny them when they prove you wrong. Amari Cooper has produced at a very similar level to OBJ thus far in his career. Amari Cooper with pre-injury Derek Carr averages per season: 78 receptions, 1,111 yards (14.3 avg), 6 TD Amari Cooper with post-injury Derek Carr averages per season: 53 receptions 710 yards (13.1 avg), 5 TD Amari Cooper with Dallas averages per season: 86 receptions, 1,238 yards (14.3 avg), 9 TD But yes, I'm sure it's all Amari Cooper's fault. He's only a #2 and Carr did everything he could to get him the ball... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 6 hours ago, oakdb36 said: You don't when you put those averages next to each other without stating that OBJ played all of 4 games in 2017. OBJ has played 75 games in his career. He's averaging 6.2 rec, 87 yds and 0.64 TD per game. Cooper has played 77 games in his career. He's averaging 4.6 rec, 66.2 yds and 0.43 TD per game. Far from identical. And Cooper played with post injury DC for 20 games which also skewed his stats a lot as I highlighted above. The majority of OBJ's production came early in his career but Carr supporters love to reference things that happened in 2016 and before to justify how good a player is so I understand. Look at their stats over the last two seasons. OBJ: 151 receptions, 2,087 yards (14.2 avg), 10 TD Cooper: 154 receptions, 2,194 yards (13.8 avg), 15 TD To act like Cooper isn't anywhere near OBJ's level is absolutely comical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: Amari Cooper with Dallas averages per season: 86 receptions, 1,238 yards (14.3 avg), 9 TD How does he averages this with Dallas when he has played 1.5 season there and his full season resulted in less than that? That can't be "reality driven by facts". Extrapolations aren't facts and most definitely when talking about Cooper whose production through a season is widely inconsistent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, oakdb36 said: How does he averages this with Dallas when he has played 1.5 season there and his full season resulted in less than that? That can't be "reality driven by facts". Extrapolations aren't facts and most definitely when talking about Cooper whose production through a season is widely inconsistent. If you take the averages of his 9 game sample and translate it into a 16 game sample. And as I said in the other thread, almost every 1,000+ yard, #1 WR, is just as inconsistent as Cooper. Amari Cooper had 4 100 yard games and in the other 12 games he averaged 50 ypg. Julio Jones had 6 100 yard games and in the other 10 games he averaged 60 ypg. OBJ had 2 100 yard games and in the other 14 games he averaged 55 ypg. DeAndre Hopkins had 5 100 yard games and in the other 10 games averaged 59 ypg. Keenan Allen had 2 100 yard games and in the other 14 averaged 63 ypg. I guess none of the dudes are good either, am I right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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