Ravens HC John Harbaugh wins COTY

[diamondbull424]

2 hours ago, BayRaider said:

That’s not how COTY works. Considering how COTY has been awarded for decades, Kyle Shanahan should of been the clear winner here leading a 4-12 team to 13-3. 
 

However, can’t say Harbaugh didn’t have a hell of a year and be too mad over it. Both guys were deserving. 

But COTY isn’t just about that, it generally goes to a NEW coach who provides a big turnaround in such a manner, but the caveat was that Shanahan was the guy who coached that team to those depths in the first place. If there were a CBCOTY award, he would’ve got it.

2 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

Coty is not about having best team of the year it's about the accomplishments of said coach. And Ravens having the best team this year is debatable. 

Shanahan brought his team from picking No2 in the draft to being 1st seed in the NFC all in one season. 

It is and the Ravens team had the most accomplishments, they tied a record for most PB players, many of whom where this was their first or their first in a couple years, showing that coaching was able to facilitate those developments. The Ravens offense finished in the top 5-10 of the most scoring efficient offenses in NFL history. The Ravens offense broke a 41 year old rushing record thought to be unbreakable. The Ravens took a QB that some in the media and many on FF thought was a “terrible QB” and he became MVP of the league. The Ravens had the best record in the NFL in the regular season with the highest strength of victory in the league beating most of the other COTY candidates in the process (Tomlin, Shanahan, Flores, Carroll, etc.) What’s more both the offense and defense ended up finishing within the top 5 DVOA, showing that his CEO coaching structure was effective. The Ravens were quite clearly the best regular season team in the NFL when it was all said and done... which is what the award considers.

Lastly like I mentioned above, Shanahan can’t get all the credit for bringing his team back from such a putrid performance last season as he was the coach of that same team. Which is to say that had Kyle been a rookie/new HC in 2019, then he would get all the credit for the turnaround and likely would’ve won COTY, but being the HC of that previous team means it’s hard to give him the credit for that turnaround when he was part of the reason for those struggles as well.

[diamondbull424]

41 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Well the first was a GM who is no longer with the team. 

And yes the 2and would be Greg Roman with Harbaugh signing off. 

Harbaugh added Roman to the staff specifically for the purpose of building an offense for Lamar when the time came. When Flacco failed early and Marty was reminiscent of Cam Cameron where he couldn’t take the passing training wheels off Lamar, Harbaugh got rid of him for Roman.

Harbaugh signed off on Lamar as the QB when the Ozzie and DeCosta spoke with him on whether a QB like Lamar would be a good fit for the squad Harbaugh would be coaching.

Lastly Ozzie is STILL with the team in a more advisory capacity, so you’ve proven to be a triple threat... wrong on all fronts. Get better.

[Ray Reed]

4 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Harbaugh added Roman to the staff specifically for the purpose of building an offense for Lamar when the time came. When Flacco failed early and Marty was reminiscent of Cam Cameron where he couldn’t take the passing training wheels off Lamar, Harbaugh got rid of him for Roman.

Harbaugh signed off on Lamar as the QB when the Ozzie and DeCosta spoke with him on whether a QB like Lamar would be a good fit for the squad Harbaugh would be coaching.

Lastly Ozzie is STILL with the team in a more advisory capacity, so you’ve proven to be a triple threat... wrong on all fronts. Get better.

lol i said the same thing and he went 

“well uh yeah obviously, all HCs do that during the draft, that’s not special”

very clear what’s going on here lol oh well 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Calvert28]

2 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

But COTY isn’t just about that, it generally goes to a NEW coach who provides a big turnaround in such a manner, but the caveat was that Shanahan was the guy who coached that team to those depths in the first place. If there were a CBCOTY award, he would’ve got it.

He coached them to those depths in the first place? He took over a 2-14 team and reach the SB in his third year after dealing rebounding from a year before which was decimated by injuries not only to the starting QB but also the entire offensive skill positions as well as their secondary. But to you that record was just due to poor coaching?  Not to mention rebuilding a culture that was the laughing stock in the NFL just a few years prior. 

Quote

It is and the Ravens team had the most accomplishments, they tied a record for most PB players, many of whom where this was their first or their first in a couple years, showing that coaching was able to facilitate those developments. The Ravens offense finished in the top 5-10 of the most scoring efficient offenses in NFL history. The Ravens offense broke a 41 year old rushing record thought to be unbreakable. The Ravens took a QB that some in the media and many on FF thought was a “terrible QB” and he became MVP of the league. The Ravens had the best record in the NFL in the regular season with the highest strength of victory in the league beating most of the other COTY candidates in the process (Tomlin, Shanahan, Flores, Carroll, etc.) What’s more both the offense and defense ended up finishing within the top 5 DVOA, showing that his CEO coaching structure was effective. The Ravens were quite clearly the best regular season team in the NFL when it was all said and done... which is what the award considers.

That part in bold made me laugh. So probowlers who made the pro bowl again is now some great accomplishment? 

I will give credit to them helping LJ and others play up to their potential but let's not pretend that this was some over night change by the coaching department. Harbaugh has had this team for 11 years now and going for more now obviously. This culture did not happen just this year, this is something hes been building since 2008, Roman brought in a new scheme that played to the talents of LJ, Andrews, Ingram, etc with Harbaugh doing what he does best with the defensive players. 

The culture and mind set of the Ravens coaching staff and FO has been the same for over a decade now. Only thing that's really changed is the scheme. The ravens you claim achieved so much is really not that much different from the team the year before that made the playoffs. 

While many analysts have made the claim that what the 49ers have done this year is arguably one of the greatest turn arounds in NFL history.

So again, how much more did Harbaugh really achieve from a team that is pretty much the same roster wise from last year to this year with a slightly different record and a slightly different coaching staff? Did they over come significant injuries too? Severe loss of personnel? Personal tragedy? I mean what?

The challenges faced by Harbaugh coming into this as opposed to the uphill battle that Shanahan had to face with a SOS that has been proven to be harder then the Raven's SOS is a far greater accomplishment. 

John and the Ravens took a nice leap this year foward. No one is denying that. But what Shanahan did this year with the 49ers is a leap only Air Jordan makes. 

[diamondbull424]

3 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

That part in bold made me laugh. So probowlers who made the pro bowl again is now some great accomplishment? 

I will give credit to them helping LJ and others play up to their potential but let's not pretend that this was some over night change by the coaching department. Harbaugh has had this team for 11 years now and going for more now obviously. This culture did not happen just this year, this is something hes been building since 2008, Roman brought in a new scheme that played to the talents of LJ, Andrews, Ingram, etc with Harbaugh doing what he does best with the defensive players. 

The culture and mind set of the Ravens coaching staff and FO has been the same for over a decade now. Only thing that's really changed is the scheme. The ravens you claim achieved so much is really not that much different from the team the year before that made the playoffs. 

While many analysts have made the claim that what the 49ers have done this year is arguably one of the greatest turn arounds in NFL history.

So again, how much more did Harbaugh really achieve from a team that is pretty much the same roster wise from last year to this year with a slightly different record and a slightly different coaching staff? Did they over come significant injuries too? Severe loss of personnel? Personal tragedy? I mean what?

The challenges faced by Harbaugh coming into this as opposed to the uphill battle that Shanahan had to face with a SOS that has been proven to be harder then the Raven's SOS is a far greater accomplishment. 

John and the Ravens took a nice leap this year foward. No one is denying that. But what Shanahan did this year with the 49ers is a leap only Air Jordan makes. 

They were 6-10 in his first season taking over, but after trading for Jimmy G they were something like 5-0 or something... that season they were not 2-14. They then suffered injuries at key positions and fell 2 games to 4-12, seemingly regressing. Prior to last season they were projected to be a playoff team due to Jimmy G, but that didn’t happen. That said losing the QB shouldn’t make or break the team as much as it did. Tomlin is an example of that being the case. Thus the turnaround to 13-3 is tremendous, but the regression in 2018 shouldn’t have happened with superior coaching. Even missing the playoffs they should’ve been better with out Jimmy G. Blame thus has to go on Kyle for that. Thus he doesn’t get the same credit as a new coaching taking over said team with a similar record and transforming them.

Shanahan did an excellent job this season, if he won I would’ve have been upset. Could’ve gone either way, but acting like Harbaugh wasn’t equally/more deserved due to the accomplishments of his team is asinine. There are different ways to skin a cat, Harbaugh focuses on motivating the team and serving in a sort of ancillary capacity with all the layers of the team. Shanahan was more of a “I’ll handle the offense and everyone else don’t let us down” type of coach. Belichick has a style more closely resembling Harbaugh and he’s the GOAT coach, Tomlin has a similar style and he’s incredibly well tenured with a ring. Acting as though because Shanahan is hyper involved with the offense, but wasn’t superior to Harbaugh in the in-game decision making or in building a more balanced coached roster in the regular season... doesn’t somehow make him more capable. Reid is better at coaching his side of the field over Belichick, but does that make him the superior HC? Absolutely not.

Lastly, the fact that Harbaugh’s built such a strong culture over the years and added a few things to make this team so successful in the regular season shouldn’t somehow be a negative. He was able to take the turnover the Ravens had (which is more than what you seem to state) and turn that into a team with a top 5 offensive and defensive DVOA.

[BayRaider]

Yikes, this thread has become toxic. Harbaugh a offensive coach? Lol... no. Harbaugh is a Manager type of coach like Tomlin (although way better and VERY good at it). He’s not a X’s and O’s guy...

With how COTTMY is usually awarded is why Kyle should be COTY is what people are arguing. Why they all of a sudden went best record beats me. But Harbaugh did have a heck of a year so it’s not like anyone can be too mad at it. 

[diamondbull424]

13 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Yikes, this thread has become toxic. Harbaugh a offensive coach? Lol... no. Harbaugh is a Manager type of coach like Tomlin (although way better and VERY good at it). He’s not a X’s and O’s guy...

With how COTTMY is usually awarded is why Kyle should be COTY is what people are arguing. Why they all of a sudden went best record beats me. But Harbaugh did have a heck of a year so it’s not like anyone can be too mad at it. 

Because it doesn’t always go to best turnaround. Or else how does Belichick win this award 3x in his career? The Patriots have very rarely over the last two decades ever been in a position where they’re going from worst to first. Belichick won in 07 and 10 for having the most efficient offenses as well as great defenses.

And who the heck said Harbaugh was an offensive coach? He’s not, but he does aid the offensive coaching staff in building the offense. He was very active this offseason in doing so, just like he was very active in building up the defensive system with a Wink after 2017. This dude grew up the son of a coach whose brother played QB, do you actually somehow believe he’s just completely inept when it comes to the offensive side of the ball? Do you think that because BB was a special teams coach and defensive coach that he’s inept when it comes to offense? Harbaugh let’s his coordinators coordinate their respective units but when things get out of whack he’s stepping in. He fired Cam Cameron on the SB run in 2012. He hired Roman to his staff with the intent that he would aid in developing a scheme for Lamar Jackson, had Marty Mornhinweg on staff because he aided in developing Vick in Philly, but demoted him when he knew there was a better route to take under Roman. Harbaugh focuses on the macro picture of the offense while allowing his OCs to focus on the micro concepts within as they’re more proficient in those aspects than he is.