Dashing202 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 12 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Not that it really matters because rankings are just biased opinions that really don’t mean anything in reality but I’d rank Smith right around Cousins, and possibly one spot above Cousins based off of each of their play last year. Their entire stats are about the same except two glaring ones - interceptions and fumbles - Cousins had 6 more fumbles and 8 more interceptions than Smith last year which is huge when winning the turnover battle usually means you win games. So, I’d put Smith right above Kirk just about last year. 1. Brady 2. Rodgers 3. Brees 4. Wentz 5Roethlisberger 6. Rivers 7. Ryan 8. Stafford 9. Wilson 10. Smith 11. Cousins 12. Carr 13. Goff 14. Keenum 15. Dalton 16. Winston 17. Eli 18. Dak 19. Flacco 20. Bradford Garapollo should be somewhere in the mid teens too but I have to see more of him. If the 49ers had Garapolllo when we played them, we probably would have lost the game. Then, guys like Tyrod, Bortles, Marriota and McCown. Newtown should be top 15 he had a pretty alright year . Considering he also added 700 yards rushing . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 6 hours ago, Dashing202 said: Wait Bradford ? At 20? Didn’t know where to put him to be honest, he’s middle of the road if healthy, probably a little bit above but he’s never healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 6 hours ago, Dashing202 said: Newtown should be top 15 he had a pretty alright year . Considering he also added 700 yards rushing . I forgot about him obviously, he’s definitely top 15. I’d have him ahead of Smith and Cousins at 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashing202 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, turtle28 said: Didn’t know where to put him to be honest, he’s middle of the road if healthy, probably a little bit above but he’s never healthy. What about Watson turtle he was playing like an top 5 Qb before his injury . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 6 hours ago, Dashing202 said: What about Watson turtle he was playing like an top 5 Qb before his injury . Watson was playing well before his injury, but I value seasons of proof. At this point, we don’t know what his future holds. The knee injury could hurt his future mobility like it did with RG3. I don’t have him as a top 10 qb - even before his injury. I’d have him in the late Teens somewhere, probably but it’s hard. I don’t have him as better than any of those QBs in the teens and if Bradford is healthy, I probably wouldn’t have him above Bradford. Watson has a lot to prove still, and that matters a lot to me when I do rankings so it’s hard for me to put him above super bowl winning QBs, and guys who’ve gone over or near 4,000 yards in seasons already. So, Watson is kind of an incomplete for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashing202 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 6 hours ago, turtle28 said: Watson was playing well before his injury, but I value seasons of proof. At this point, we don’t know what his future holds. The knee injury could hurt his future mobility like it did with RG3. I don’t have him as a top 10 qb - even before his injury. I’d have him in the late Teens somewhere, probably but it’s hard. I don’t have him as better than any of those QBs in the teens and if Bradford is healthy, I probably wouldn’t have him above Bradford. Watson has a lot to prove still, and that matters a lot to me when I do rankings so it’s hard for me to put him above super bowl winning QBs, and guys who’ve gone over or near 4,000 yards in seasons already. So, Watson is kind of an incomplete for me. You don't have him top ten before his injury ? he had like 18 touchdowns in 6 weeks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Dashing202 said: You don't have him top ten before his injury ? he had like 18 touchdowns in 6 weeks Which is impressive, but again “body of work.” He hasn’t even plays a full season, I can’t put him above average, above average and good QBs who have played that that level for several years. I just can’t, it’s fine if you have him in the top 10 for your list but I don’t think Watson has proven that he’s better than Cousins or Alex Smith yet. If he had stayed happy, perhaps he would have continued his hot streak and thrown around 30 TDs but he got hurt so I don’t know what he’s going to be yet. Remember everyone thought RG3 and Kapernick we’re changing how the qb position was played in 2012 and then RG3 got hurt and was never the same, Kap got hurt a few years later and then blackballed. Now both are out of the league so I’ll hold out hope that Watson regains that form he had for a while, but I just can’t be sure he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 On 2/2/2018 at 11:26 PM, mike23md said: Hiring the best people is part of the plan. In any case, there has to be a model to build with. Unfortunately, the Redskins are not capable of developing such a plan. My point is that if you hire the best people, they should in theory come up with the best plan that maximizes their talents. If you go with the plan, the best people might not be right fit for the plan you created. However, your last point holds: we cannot do any of this, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, Woz said: My point is that if you hire the best people, they should in theory come up with the best plan that maximizes their talents. If you go with the plan, the best people might not be right fit for the plan you created. However, your last point holds: we cannot do any of this, unfortunately. It all starts at the top. Snyder still doesn’t want to give up control, he wants Vinny’s & Allen’s type GMs aka “yes men.” While Snyder isn’t as hands on as he once the first 5 years he was owner and after Gibbs left in 08 & 09, Allen still does what Snyder wants. So yeah, nothings going to change, even if Allen were canned. I still think the reason we didn’t re-sign Cousins has more to do with Snyder than even Allen. Snyder wasn’t convinced of Cousins and was upset that RG3 didn’t work out in 2015 so, they only franchised Kirk in 2016 instead paying him market value. It was all Snyder’s call, Allen just executed Snyder’s plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostnote Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 minute ago, turtle28 said: It all starts at the top. Snyder still doesn’t want to give up control, he wants Vinny’s & Allen’s yes men. While Snyder isn’t as hands on as he once was alright when he became and owner, Allen still does what he wants. So yeah, nothings going to change, even if Allen were canned. I dont think of it that way. I see it more of Allen as the shephard leading the herd. Snyder hired the football guy to be more involved while Snyder sits back and watches. He still has a say, but its not like it was or to the extent of Jerry Jones. Allen has just stunk up the joint and totally failed any part of being the football guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, mike23md said: I dont think of it that way. I see it more of Allen as the shephard leading the herd. Snyder hired the football guy to be more involved while Snyder sits back and watches. He still has a say, but its not like it was or to the extent of Jerry Jones. Allen has just stunk up the joint and totally failed any part of being the football guy. Well my point is that Snyder hired Allen. He’s not as hands on as Jeruh is - that’s for sure - but Allen still does what Snyder wants, just like Vinny did. Snyder wanted RG3 to start and wanted him to be the answer probably more than any other fan. It took Jay & Scot to really talk to Dan and to get him to give Kirk the chance but that didn’t change Dan’s feelings about the whole thing the next offseason and even McCloughan didn’t want to pay Kirk top $ and I don’t think Jay wanted to either. They all thought Kirk was good, but not top qb money good. So, they all agreed on that. I don’t think a big decision like what happened with Dan without him having final say. It’s like at work, your boss wants you to come up with a plan, you do, you present it to him but your boss has final say and will input his/her ideas and that’s what you end up doing - even if you don’t 100% agree - because your boss said to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 14 minutes ago, mike23md said: I dont think of it that way. I see it more of Allen as the shephard leading the herd. Snyder hired the football guy to be more involved while Snyder sits back and watches. He still has a say, but its not like it was or to the extent of Jerry Jones. Allen has just stunk up the joint and totally failed any part of being the football guy. And yet, he is still employed. So, either Snyder approves of the job Allen is doing (and thus doesn't realize that Allen has stunk up the joint ... or doesn't care), or prefers having a guy who is incompetent in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostnote Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 minute ago, turtle28 said: Well my point is that Snyder hired Allen. He’s not as hands on as Jeruh is - that’s for sure - but Allen still does what Snyder wants, just like Vinny did. Snyder wanted RG3 to start and wanted him to be the answer probably more than any other fan. It took Jay & Scot to really talk to Dan and to get him to give Kirk the chance but that didn’t change Dan’s feelings about the whole thing the next offseason and even McCloughan didn’t want to pay Kirk top $ and I don’t think Jay wanted to either. They all thought Kirk was good, but not top qb money good. So, they all agreed on that. I don’t think a big decision like what happened with Dan without him having final say. It’s like at work, your boss wants you to come up with a plan, you do, you present it to him but your boss has final say and will input his/her ideas and that’s what you end up doing - even if you don’t 100% agree - because your boss said to do it. I think that Allen has been the persuader in this mix considering he didnt draft or suggest drafting Cousins. That was Shanahan. Snyder has disdain for the Shanahans and that could be the tipping point and Allen just pushed him over the edge. I think Allen has a lot more control than Vinny ever had. And I think Allen has a lot more persuasion over Snyder. I do not see Allen as a yes man. I see him as a manipulating scumbag that needs to have full control and credit or his ego deflates and he does what he did to McCloughan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, mike23md said: I do not see Allen as a yes man. I see him as a manipulating scumbag that needs to have full control and credit or his ego deflates and he does what he did to McCloughan. Which is even scarier for the long term health of this franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostnote Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Just now, Woz said: And yet, he is still employed. So, either Snyder approves of the job Allen is doing (and thus doesn't realize that Allen has stunk up the joint ... or doesn't care), or prefers having a guy who is incompetent in charge. I dont see Snyder as that hard charging take control guy. How long was it before he had to fire Vinny? 2 years too late. Snyder too, is incompetent as an owner and cant get out of his own way, but Allen assures him that he can lead the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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