Not sure how I feel...

[3rivers]

On 5/11/2021 at 11:03 AM, MOSteelers56 said:

I mean wasn't Fitchner Ben's guy? In turn, doesn't that make it Ben's offense? The offense was catered directly to Ben. Ben's never been a run the ball guy. The drop issue is definitely a problem, but also we threw the ball 3 times a game more than anyone else. We led the league in pass attempts by a wide margin. If 5 of those passes a game are runs, we logically have considerably fewer drops.  So 3 of the 4(and kind of 4 out of 4) of those reasons are tied to Ben. Again, I don't think Ben is garbage. I think we could make the playoffs with him, but Ben was a big issue last year. I generally agree with @3rivers on that point. Ben's declined the last 3 years. I'm hopeful that this year we take some of the power over the offense that Ben has and give it to Canada. Ben needs to throw the ball 25-30 times a game. 

is it all Ben  or was much of it Fichner and possibly not being healthy. Or is this the new health /physical constraints ben has to deal with? Fichner was a fail, I think everyone here will agree on that. 

for 2021, all we can hope for a a better OC and OL. We know the RB issued to be good , so lets see if they get yards from Harris. 

ben needs to legitimately be able to throw the ball down field. if he can't , then teams will feast.

[3rivers]

On 5/11/2021 at 12:52 PM, Steeler Hitman said:

Let's get him the tools and support to help him be successful. We can't depend on Ben stepping up and being Ben of 2008 for 16 weeks again and shouldn't. 

2008 had a elite defence, but bad OL and RB wasn't good either.  Now, the OL should be better than 08, as should RB.  QB though, isn't near as capable until proven otherwise . Father time , ok, how about retire ?  He better be MUCH better than last year, if not they need to replace him and see from there

[Steeler Hitman]

16 hours ago, 3rivers said:

2008 had a elite defense,

No argument about that defense. I may not call it elite, but the defense was better than average. We had a great set of OLB's, a superior set of safeties that would knock you back to the future, an underrated, but very good set of run stuffing ILB's, and a great run stuffing DL. Our CB's as a set were average at best. Deebo and Woodley certainly hid the CB's pass deficiencies with a superior pass rush. I take that back, that is pretty elite despite the CB's inability to cover like today. The game was different 13 years ago. Good point 3rivers.

but bad OL

Yep. Many argued that was the worst starting set of OL's who had ever won a SB.  Not much after Max Starks and Willie Colon whom I stated would be a better OG than RT. 

and RB wasn't good either.

Fast Willie Parker was on his way down and a lot had to do with the shift with the OL. They didn't open the holes like the old guard of maulers could.

 Now, the OL should be better than 08, as should RB.  

Yes. Last years OL was probably better than 08's and especially in pass protection, but that is relative as the game has changed since 2008. That was a big difference in philosophy between Coach T and Coach Cowher. Coach Cowher loved to build in the offensive trenches.  Big Ben could have used some elite OL's around this time. 

QB though, isn't near as capable until proven otherwise .

I tell many people that regardless of how you choose to view it, the glass is in reality both half full and half empty. We have a tendency to focus on the what is gone or what is left as individuals. Big Ben won 12 games coming off major surgery. No one expected that. Despite poor offensive balance and a host of other issues, he actually exceed expectations. The problem with that is that the standard in Pittsburgh is the standard: Super Bowl win or nothing! There is a fine line between winning and losing and washed up and being called great. 

I am not expecting Big Ben to have to lead this team with his arm. That should not have been the case last year, but in reality it was. You can't fault the man for not being able to do that for 16+ games at his age and coming off major arm surgery. No excuses made for Ben, but just an explanation of why. I.E.: No running attack, poor OL play, poor play calling, poor coaching adjustments, injuries, no bye, changes to the schedule, three games in 12 days, age, and fatigue  have all been discussed. No situation is or will be perfect. Do I think Ben could have done what Brady di with the support and stars aligning in TB? Absolutely. Switch Ben and Tom and if Tom is here, you get what the patriots got in 2019. I am not saying Ben is the GOAT, but that in the same circumstances  he would have thrived as well and Tom would have struggled in Pittsburgh like he did the last year in New England. 

Father time , ok, how about retire ?  

He will in 2021 or 2022. If he doesn't improve in 2021, I will gladly jump on the other ship because you would have more merit to the argument that "That ship has sailed."  My only problem is the word capable. I do believe he is capable of leading this team to a championship. People (and I am not saying you specifically 3rivers) use the old or washed up argument about Ben. But many of the same people argued that he should have continued to practice on Wednesday's. Veteran bodies need rest.  Facts!  Yes he is old by football standards. No I don't believe Big Ben is washed up by any standard or means. 

He better be MUCH better than last year, if not they need to replace him and see from there

That is a fact. I believe that they would replace him or force him to retire like they did Troy. Athletes don't like to feel like they are being put out to pasture so to speak. After being a year removed from surgery, getting reacclimated to playing regularly, and now a semi-real off season and training camp to mesh with receivers and new players, I know that you are correct. Ben had better be much better and consistent (good) than what we saw week 12 through the end of the season.  There is a lot about Big Ben that made you sometimes cringe. But I see growth and maturity. I am predicting Big Ben to be the 2021 Comeback Player of the Year winner. Yeah I know I said that last year and without the WFT win and Alex Smith rising like a Phoenix, he may have won it if it were awarded week 11. However, In the immortal words of Bubby Brister, "Write it down for 2021!" 😁 You heard it from me first. Not saying that as a fan or being simply a homer, it's  just a feeling.