Mr Bad Example Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 We've had many silly threads around here but this is sillier than most 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatKing Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Howler said: It's interesting that Gute has become the anti-TT. TT struggled with drafting capable defensive players , but did well at stocking the offensive skill positions. Gute is almost the opposite. Yea its crazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLcheesehead12 Posted January 25, 2022 Author Share Posted January 25, 2022 1 minute ago, StatKing said: Guess what, we are still going to offer him a contract extension. Whether he takes it, who knows, but we will offer it. Rodgers is going to be the one to decide whether he leaves or not, the front office has no leverage. Lafleur made it abundantly clear after the game he wants him on the team no matter what. At this point I can only hope though that he takes a pay cut. I mean, Adams is now a UFA if we don't re-sign him, and that's going to cost us among other things. I got a feeling he won't want back unless his goto WR is on the team, but he's going to have to realize he can't have his cake and eat it too. Either way though, if we're going to try and gear up for one more crack at the SB, we're going to have to get rid of bad offense players too like ESB and Deguara, and shore up the WR and TE positions with top level talent in addition to special teams upgrades. That won't happen likely without significant cap space addition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatKing Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Old Guy said: @Normwas right about this @StatKingguy. WOW! He's been wrong about everything for 3 years. What he says is irrelevant to me. Edited January 25, 2022 by StatKing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Striker Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 13 minutes ago, Howler said: It's interesting that Gute has become the anti-TT. TT struggled with drafting capable defensive players , but did well at stocking the offensive skill positions. Gute is almost the opposite. Gute also hasn't spent the same amount of early round draft picks on offense, specifically skill positions, as TT did his first few years. In his first four drafts, Gute has had: 5 x First Round Picks (2 x CB, 1 x S, 1 x EDGE, 1 x QB) 4 x Second Round Picks (2 x OL, 1 x CB, 1 x RB) 4 x Third Round Picks (1 x WR, 1 x TE, 1 x "TE" aka H-back, 1 x ILB) Thompson had: 3 x First Round Picks (1 x QB, 1 x MLB, 1 x DT) 8 x Second Round Picks (1 x QB, 1 x RB, 4! x WR, 1 x T, 1 x S) 5 x Third Round Picks (1 x WR, 1 x TE, 1 x LB, 1 x G, 1 x S) Thompson basically built an entire WR corps in those first four drafts. Gute has really only taken three swings. One would think that would shift this year with the need AND with the defense set at a lot of positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 27 minutes ago, StinkySauce said: They are very different issues. Rodgers doesn't perform as well in the playoffs as he does during the regular season. We can discuss why, if you want. Seriously, though. If the final score was 13-0 Packers, or maybe 16-3, you'd look at the temperature, the snow, the wind, the amount of drops or mishandled footballs as a logical reason why the Packers didn't score more points. Maybe you'd even look at the 49ers D. So, yes, maybe there's some blame to share, but almost all of it goes to ST. How can we look at this any other way? It feels like an emotional response rather than logic. I'm surprised you don't agree, actually. Why are we talking about blame? Who gives a **** about blame? It's a mathematical equitation. Offense + Defense + Special Teams > X. Defense = .9X Offense = .2X ST= -.3X Yes, ST was the lowest number by far. That doesn't excuse the offense for performing at a .3X level when you need them to perform at a .55X level to win. Had the offense performed at a .55X level, this is a win. And for what it's worth a -.3X rating for a ST is absolutely abysmal. It's full standards of deviations worse than anything you would expect. Typically a ST rating is between -.05X and .05X. Managing a -.3X rating in a playoff game is a fireable offense. That said, a .2X rating isn't gonna win you games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Striker said: Gute also hasn't spent the same amount of early round draft picks on offense, specifically skill positions, as TT did his first few years. In his first four drafts, Gute has had: 5 x First Round Picks (2 x CB, 1 x S, 1 x EDGE, 1 x QB) 4 x Second Round Picks (2 x OL, 1 x CB, 1 x RB) 4 x Third Round Picks (1 x WR, 1 x TE, 1 x "TE" aka H-back, 1 x ILB) Thompson had: 3 x First Round Picks (1 x QB, 1 x MLB, 1 x DT) 8 x Second Round Picks (1 x QB, 1 x RB, 4! x WR, 1 x T, 1 x S) 5 x Third Round Picks (1 x WR, 1 x TE, 1 x LB, 1 x G, 1 x S) Thompson basically built an entire WR corps in those first four drafts. Gute has really only taken three swings. One would think that would shift this year with the need AND with the defense set at a lot of positions. It's also not taking into account that in those same years, Thompson's receivers weren't dominating either. It took guys 2 and sometimes 3 years to get there. A guy like Amari Rodgers shouldn't even be counted in this comparison considering he only just finished his rookie year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatKing Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, Striker said: Gute also hasn't spent the same amount of early round draft picks on offense, specifically skill positions, as TT did his first few years. In his first four drafts, Gute has had: 5 x First Round Picks (2 x CB, 1 x S, 1 x EDGE, 1 x QB) 4 x Second Round Picks (2 x OL, 1 x CB, 1 x RB) 4 x Third Round Picks (1 x WR, 1 x TE, 1 x "TE" aka H-back, 1 x ILB) Thompson had: 3 x First Round Picks (1 x QB, 1 x MLB, 1 x DT) 8 x Second Round Picks (1 x QB, 1 x RB, 4! x WR, 1 x T, 1 x S) 5 x Third Round Picks (1 x WR, 1 x TE, 1 x LB, 1 x G, 1 x S) Thompson basically built an entire WR corps in those first four drafts. Gute has really only taken three swings. One would think that would shift this year with the need AND with the defense set at a lot of positions. Who's the best WR in this draft we could realistically get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 33 minutes ago, LLcheesehead12 said: I think you don't understand the broader point, and that is that THIS IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH! Our problem isn't that we don't fire bad special teams coaches. It's that we have a massive ineptitude and inability to hire good ones, and it transcends the head coach and is an entire organizational failure. So I'm mad at everyone in the organization because they have screwed up and given us awful special teams for over 20 years. In fact, when was the last time we consistently fielded top 10 special teams units? The Mike Holmgren years? That's egregiously BAD!! The fools in the front office and executive suites don't care about fixing this ****. If they did, we wouldn't be abysmal in this department year in and year out. I'm sick and tired of this gorilla glue and duct tape approach to fixing special teams. Enough of this hiring of hacks like Slocum, Ron Zook, Mennenga and Drayton. Mark Murphy had better tell Gute to make special teams top priority in this draft and get real returners and a real long snapper among other things. Otherwise they both gotta go. And do something like spend extra time in practice executing FGs and punts so we can actually get them down to a science. The next special teams coordinator had better be a total outsider who is going to overhaul everything we been doing here. And I say hire a consultant to get in LaFleur's ear and make sure he puts some discipline in the special teams camp. The executives care about the football team holistically. The decision has long been made to focus on the primary units rather than the special teams when it comes to roster construction. I don't even think that's necessary the wrong philosophy. There are pros and cons to every decision that's made. That said, it still took a phenomenally terrible ST performance for this to happen. If we had even been within two standard deviations of our median ST performance, this is a two score win. It just so happened that we had two horrendous out of character games on the same Sunday with both the offense and ST performing far below their season averages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Striker Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 24 minutes ago, StatKing said: Guess what, we are still going to offer him a contract extension. Whether he takes it, who knows, but we will offer it. Rodgers is going to be the one to decide whether he leaves or not, the front office has no leverage. Lafleur made it abundantly clear after the game he wants him on the team no matter what. ...not that MLF wouldn't want him on the team, but also what would you expect him to say? Get the hell out of town, Aaron? I would be surprised if the Packers offer Rodgers an extension unless they were certain they wanted to keep him here AND that he wanted to stay here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Just now, StatKing said: Who's the best WR in this draft we could realistically get? Why the **** are you looking at WRs when we know we're going to likely lose both Preston and Zadarius and we still don't have a 3T that's worth a ****? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkySauce Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Why are we talking about blame? Who gives a **** about blame? It's a mathematical equitation. Offense + Defense + Special Teams > X. Defense = .9X Offense = .2X ST= -.3X Yes, ST was the lowest number by far. That doesn't excuse the offense for performing at a .3X level when you need them to perform at a .55X level to win. Had the offense performed at a .55X level, this is a win. And for what it's worth a -.3X rating for a ST is absolutely abysmal. It's full standards of deviations worse than anything you would expect. Typically a ST rating is between -.05X and .05X. Managing a -.3X rating in a playoff game is a fireable offense. That said, a .2X rating isn't gonna win you games. Thanks, I appreciate that breakdown, since I'm not much of a math guy. Does something like weather affect those numbers? ETA: we aren't talking about blame? I admit I jumped from the thread title to about the midway point in the discussion, but . . . Edited January 25, 2022 by StinkySauce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Just now, Striker said: ...not that MLF wouldn't want him on the team, but also what would you expect him to say? Get the hell out of town, Aaron? I would be surprised if the Packers offer Rodgers an extension unless they were certain they wanted to keep him here AND that he wanted to stay here. There's probably two offseason plan binders sitting up in Gute's office. There's: Rodgers wants to come back and will play ball to make things work with the cap. Rodgers is gone and we're moving forward with Love. He probably is hoping for #1 but knows #2 is far more likely to be the one that's executed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Striker Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Just now, StatKing said: Who's the best WR in this draft we could realistically get? I won't even begin to guess at the draft until we see what they get for Rodgers if they trade him. Having, let's say, the #9 pick makes things way different than just the #28. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 1 minute ago, StinkySauce said: Thanks, I appreciate that breakdown, since I'm not much of a math guy. Does something like weather affect those numbers? Sorta, but the weather we had wasn't the kind of weather that was going to kill you. We saw the Bills eviscerate the Patriots in similar weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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