State of the Steelers

[armsteeld]

6 minutes ago, warfelg said:

He was quite bad there.

Based on? Plenty of players have been labeled as bad in one place but are studs in others ala Kendrick Green, Kevin Dotson, Minkah Fitzpatrick, etc... 

[3rivers]

54 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

 

 

 

Ian Rapoport

 

@RapSheet

 

 

The Steelers have so many options at Center in Free Agency that it would be a waste to draft one in 2024. Thoughts?

I always like UFA for proven vets in area of need, but they need to be good-excellent, not retreads or cast offs like colbert liked

Considering how deep the draft is,  even if they go C in RD1, there will be good players later. However, as you eluded to, if UFA is THAT good for C, then  maybe thats the better option. 

This seems like a year  that teams  can really revamp and fix lots of issues all in one offseason in both UFA and the draft. I can't recall it being like this before.  Thinking about it, I don't know what I would do.  

Who would be the top 3 Centers in UFA right now and their expected cap for 2024?

55 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Bozeman would be low on my list. 

who are your top 3 Centers in UFA and their expected cap for 2024?

52 minutes ago, Blitzburgh said:

What’s everyone’s realistic prediction for FA this week?  We have a a lot of holes to fill and gaps to bridge before the draft.  
 

 

 

I don't have one. I am not sure of this regime, but last year they made some moves, so will that happen again?  I do expect them to make a move for wilson as much as I don't want them to, and they might overpay him as well.   A vet CB I could see, but not Sneed of course. 

New regime, wait and see. At least there is some hope, Khan doesn't just sit around and wait  

Ideally/hope would be getting some top tier players and either trading or cutting players that are taking up too much cap space.  Cut Larry, sign   Wilkins, Howard, safety  Simmons, that would be a nice haul for week 1 in UFA. 

[warfelg]

5 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

Based on? Plenty of players have been labeled as bad in one place but are studs in others ala Kendrick Green, Kevin Dotson, Minkah Fitzpatrick, etc... 

He’s been average at best, hasn’t anchored very well, and there’s little reason to cut someone in year two of a contract what once you apply the rule of 51 it actually ends up costing you cap.

[armsteeld]

2 minutes ago, warfelg said:

He’s been average at best, hasn’t anchored very well, and there’s little reason to cut someone in year two of a contract what once you apply the rule of 51 it actually ends up costing you cap.

Yep. Logic doesn't always apply in the NFL. I could care less if we sign him. I added another Center name to the table. I'm not advocating that we sign him. I still stand on grabbing a FA Center and not getting one in the draft so that's the gist of it.

[warfelg]

Just now, armsteeld said:

Yep. Logic doesn't always apply in the NFL. I could care less if we sign him. I added another Center name to the table. I'm not advocating that we sign him. I still stand on grabbing a FA Center and not getting one in the draft so that's the gist of it.

I’m with that. I prefer Andre James, Aaron Brewer, Conner Williams, Mitch Morse over Bozeman.

[armsteeld]

6 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I’m with that. I prefer Andre James, Aaron Brewer, Conner Williams, Mitch Morse over Bozeman.

You are suspect at times lol. You prefer tiny *** Aaron Brewer over Bozeman? I'm hoping you're 🧌 me lol.

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, armsteeld said:

You are suspect at times lol. You prefer tiny *** Aaron Brewer over Bozeman? I'm hoping you're 🧌 me lol.

I like him because he knows Smith’s offense.

Kinda funny, and not a shots at you by any means, but in a mock I suggest we trade Zinter late and move him to C, who’s almost the same size as Bozeman and over here I got hit for liking the smaller guy. 😂

I’m always going to caution that when a guy is released from a team that needs help where he plays (OL), has cap space (tagged Burns killed it), and has limited routes to improving (they’ll have $9MM to spend when you account for rookie contracts).  When it comes to FA I will always be more interested in teams that have limited cap, player will be priced out, and have enough picks to cover for it.

On another spot how screwed are the Panthers?  The following players all would cost more to cut than they save: Adam Thielen (34), Shy Tuttle (28), Miles Sanders (27), Andy Dalton (36), Shaq Thompson (30), Austin Corbett (28), and they already cut one in Hayden Hurst (31)

And the following barely save anything: Von Bell (29), Derrick Brown* (25), Johnny Hekker (34)

Their last remaining worth it cuts in terms of savings are Xavier Woods, Brady Christensen.

*-up for contract after the year.

They’re best off seeing what they can get for Donte Jackson, Derrick Brown, and Brian Burns on the trade market TBH because they are cruising for another poor season without it.  Heck I’m even taking back my “they should trade for DJ” take because that’s a terrible decision for them seeing this more in depth.

[armsteeld]

3 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I like him because he knows Smith’s offense.

Kinda funny, and not a shots at you by any means, but in a mock I suggest we trade Zinter late and move him to C, who’s almost the same size as Bozeman and over here I got hit for liking the smaller guy. 😂

I’m always going to caution that when a guy is released from a team that needs help where he plays (OL), has cap space (tagged Burns killed it), and has limited routes to improving (they’ll have $9MM to spend when you account for rookie contracts).  When it comes to FA I will always be more interested in teams that have limited cap, player will be priced out, and have enough picks to cover for it.

On another spot how screwed are the Panthers?  The following players all would cost more to cut than they save: Adam Thielen (34), Shy Tuttle (28), Miles Sanders (27), Andy Dalton (36), Shaq Thompson (30), Austin Corbett (28), and they already cut one in Hayden Hurst (31)

And the following barely save anything: Von Bell (29), Derrick Brown* (25), Johnny Hekker (34)

Their last remaining worth it cuts in terms of savings are Xavier Woods, Brady Christensen.

*-up for contract after the year.

They’re best off seeing what they can get for Donte Jackson, Derrick Brown, and Brian Burns on the trade market TBH because they are cruising for another poor season without it.  Heck I’m even taking back my “they should trade for DJ” take because that’s a terrible decision for them seeing this more in depth.

Regarding size, I caught flack saying than Kendrick Green & Frazier are almost the same size. They're both former wrestlers.

Frazier 6'3 313 32 1/4 arms 10 7/8 hands 78 1/2

I don't see them trading for DJ either. Tampa Bay would be a good spot for DJ.

Green 6'2 305 32 1/4 arms 10 1/8 hands 77" wingspan

[warfelg]

11 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

Regarding size, I caught flack saying than Kendrick Green & Frazier are almost the same size. They're both former wrestlers.

I mean, IMO size has little to do with ability, Frazier is going to be better than Green.

I was more laughing (to myself) at the fact that one person things 6’6” is too big and another prefers that.  I like what I heard Geoff Schwartz say about it which is we need to learn to throw prototype out the window in regards to size.  We’re starting to see some really big OG’s have success and small OT’s look like studs.  Gone are the days too where you could hide someone at the C position so just putting your smallest guy there isn’t always the answer.

[warfelg]

Byard to the Bears for a 2/$15MM deal

[armsteeld]

8 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I mean, IMO size has little to do with ability, Frazier is going to be better than Green.

I was more laughing (to myself) at the fact that one person things 6’6” is too big and another prefers that.  I like what I heard Geoff Schwartz say about it which is we need to learn to throw prototype out the window in regards to size.  We’re starting to see some really big OG’s have success and small OT’s look like studs.  Gone are the days too where you could hide someone at the C position so just putting your smallest guy there isn’t always the answer.

Ability itself is a tricky analysis. Based on college tape, I don't see much of a difference besides Green being way more violent and explosive. Green did switch positions which led to paralysis by over-analysis but excelled when playing for the Texans at his natural position. 

[warfelg]

9 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

Ability itself is a tricky analysis. Based on college tape, I don't see much of a difference besides Green being way more violent and explosive. Green did switch positions which led to paralysis by over-analysis but excelled when playing for the Texans at his natural position. 

I see big differences.  Frazier plays more up on his feet rather than his heels.  I saw it was very easy for DT’s to land first punches on Green, where most don’t get that on Frazier. Frazier plays with better pad level, leverage, and hand angle.  Additionally Frazier is a very good phone box fighter.  Green was a movement blocker, who needed to get out to be more effective.  He didn’t stand his ground well and either got caught punching and ended up on the ground, of was pushed onto his heels and ended up on the ground.

Personally I think you are too low on Frazier and SVP.  They are both going to be long term starters in the NFL IMO.  They would both be really good picks should we end up with one of them.  I prefer the FA route because I don’t think we would go with 2 rookies and Jones on the line, so one of RT or C would come from the draft and RT in FA looks really thin.

Edited March 10 by warfelg

[armsteeld]

9 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I see big differences.  Frazier plays more up on his feet rather than his heels.  I saw it was very easy for DT’s to land first punches on Green, where most don’t get that on Frazier. Frazier plays with better pad level, leverage, and hand angle.  Additionally Frazier is a very good phone box fighter.  Green was a movement blocker, who needed to get out to be more effective.  He didn’t stand his ground well and either got caught punching and ended up on the ground, of was pushed onto his heels and ended up on the ground.

Personally I think you are too low on Frazier and SVP.  They are both going to be long term starters in the NFL IMO.  They would both be really good picks should we end up with one of them.  I prefer the FA route because I don’t think we would go with 2 rookies and Jones on the line, so one of RT or C would come from the draft and RT in FA looks really thin.

Every game I watched Frazier was constantly on the ground plus he's a poor athlete. Even with good angles guys were able to beat him to the ballcarrier. This thread isn't for this type of post but we can take it to the Prospects thread if you prefer.

[rlon]

58 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

Every game I watched Frazier was constantly on the ground plus he's a poor athlete. Even with good angles guys were able to beat him to the ballcarrier. This thread isn't for this type of post but we can take it to the Prospects thread if you prefer.

What about Bortolini’s athleticism or Limmer’s strength? Does such a plus attribute in either suggest either is a possibility to fix our problems in the 4th round? Because, it seems like JPJ is the only cant miss type of center prospect that likely gives us that next great perennial player at the position. That means using a number one…if he makes it that far. 
 

Rd. 1 JPJ

Rd. 2 Frazier

Rd. 3 Van Pran

Rd. 4 Bortolini or Limmer?

Edited March 10 by rlon

[armsteeld]

1 minute ago, rlon said:

What about Bortolini’s athleticism or Limmer’s strength? Does that plus attributive in either suggest either is a possibility to fix our problems in the 4th round? Because, it seems like JPJ is the only cant miss type of center prospect that gives us that next great perennial player at the position. That means using a number one…if he makes it that far. 
 

Rd. 1 JPJ

Rd. 2 Frazier

Rd. 3 Van Pran

Rd. 4 Bortolini or Limmer?

Actually JPJ isn't the only high quality Center in this class. Those other guys have small issues that need tweaking in order to be legit players. All 5 can be starters within a year or two. I like JPJ but I wouldn't spend a 1st on him.