Devin White requests a trade

[RedandPewterReturns]

9 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said:

IDK man, you look at his track record and he's had some really drafts and couple lack-luster ones. He's also been able to find high end starter to superstar type talent in rounds outside the 1st.  That 2019 draft, he actually did really well in. White hasn't developed into the premier guy we anticipated after what we saw 2nd half and playoff run of the SB season, but he's a fringe starting level ILB and one of the better blitizing LB's in the league. Now is he worth the 2nd contract, not IMO and escpecially at the level he's seeking. You look at that draft as a whole and he got (6) players from that draft that all had major roles on the team for several seasons. That is a huge hit.  

I wanted Josh Allen too and I know @indifference was on the train with me as well, but honestly outside of his rookie year, he's been pretty lack-luster as well vs. expectations. 

I'm still not going to judge the 2021 or 2022 class yet for guys still on the roster. it's still too early IMO. I know we want to assign the JTS bust tag already, but gotta remember this was a guy who didn't play at all in 2020 and only had (1) year of college ball at all. Coming into 2021, anything you got from him on the field was a positive. Last, year we expected him to take another step forward and he didn't, no sugarcoating that. Now in year (3) he needs to do so, or I think the bust tag is reasoanble. I think 3 years is sufficient time to expect significant growth and devlopment towards what the ceiling was thought to be.

Top 5 picks shouldn't be fringe level starters. White is overrate and can't break the average ranks for an off ball LB. He's a bust to this point. Tremaine Edwards in Buffalo was a bust up until his "breakout year"  buffalo still let him walk bc it was stupid to give him that mega deal. 

Devins attitude from the start was he "wanted to be paid as the top LB" when he was drafted. I'd honestly take what I can get for him and move on. I think if it were up to Licht, Devin would have been gone. Bowles loves the potential. But after 4 years - makes you wonder what's really motivating this guy. 

On Licht's drafts, I mean I get it, its hard to assess. But thinking about it lightly - 

2014: Evans , the rest tanked 

2015: Marpet and Smith were pro bowl level players til retirement and Smith just tanked last year. Winston and Kwon weren't kept to second contracts. Your #1 overall pick and QB is a bust - which makes this a pretty bad grade overall. 

2016: Complete flop

2017: Cappa and Godwin were hits. ppl will say OJ Howard was the right choice. But at Alabama, his tape was inconsistent. He showed up half of the time maybe less. That turned out to be his NFL career, ironically. 

2018: One of his better drafts hitting on Davis, Whitehead, and Vea. I thought Rojo was actually quite good as he was a tough runner and YPC were high. I think he just didn't fit what Brady was looking for in a back which is why he wasn't retained. Still don't know what he saw in MJ Stewart. 

2019: White has been a bust, can't keep missing on top 5 picks. Bunting was a solid nickel and Dean is a tier 1 CB in this league. Edwards was solid NFL level starter and ballhawk. Not great but not horrid. Scotty miller was also a very nice find later in the draft. 

2020: Big win here getting a HOF talent like Wirfs who's exceed expectations; following up with a top tier safety in Winfield. Vaughn may get more touches this year, solid out of the backfield. 

2021: TBD; Tryon shows flashes. This is his year to put them together. Hainsey played well last year i feel and should be our starting center in 2024; may compete for LG/RG this year. Trask hasn't proven to be a back up quality talent at QB. Some will say bc Brady preferred Gabbert as the 2, but the play showed Gabbert was far ahead of Trask regardless. Darden - there was hopes for developing into a deep threat. Sadly didn't perform. 

2022: Too raw to determine. Otton and Keift look like keepers at TE and TE/FB role. Otton was a steal in my opinion and will only get better. Hall, Goedeke have upside. So does McCollum. Carmada should hold down the Punter job for years but I'm not patting Licht for finding this position in round 4. White should be the top back unless they pull something crazy and take Robinson at 19. He showed promise to be a versatile back. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by RedandPewterReturns

[kgarrett12486]

1 hour ago, RedandPewterReturns said:

Top 5 picks shouldn't be fringe level starters. White is overrate and can't break the average ranks for an off ball LB. He's a bust to this point. Tremaine Edwards in Buffalo was a bust up until his "breakout year"  buffalo still let him walk bc it was stupid to give him that mega deal. 

Devins attitude from the start was he "wanted to be paid as the top LB" when he was drafted. I'd honestly take what I can get for him and move on. I think if it were up to Licht, Devin would have been gone. Bowles loves the potential. But after 4 years - makes you wonder what's really motivating this guy. 

On Licht's drafts, I mean I get it, its hard to assess. But thinking about it lightly - 

2014: Evans , the rest tanked 

2015: Marpet and Smith were pro bowl level players til retirement and Smith just tanked last year. Winston and Kwon weren't kept to second contracts. Your #1 overall pick and QB is a bust - which makes this a pretty bad grade overall. 

2016: Complete flop

2017: Cappa and Godwin were hits. ppl will say OJ Howard was the right choice. But at Alabama, his tape was inconsistent. He showed up half of the time maybe less. That turned out to be his NFL career, ironically. 

2018: One of his better drafts hitting on Davis, Whitehead, and Vea. I thought Rojo was actually quite good as he was a tough runner and YPC were high. I think he just didn't fit what Brady was looking for in a back which is why he wasn't retained. Still don't know what he saw in MJ Stewart. 

2019: White has been a bust, can't keep missing on top 5 picks. Bunting was a solid nickel and Dean is a tier 1 CB in this league. Edwards was solid NFL level starter and ballhawk. Not great but not horrid. Scotty miller was also a very nice find later in the draft. 

2020: Big win here getting a HOF talent like Wirfs who's exceed expectations; following up with a top tier safety in Winfield. Vaughn may get more touches this year, solid out of the backfield. 

2021: TBD; Tryon shows flashes. This is his year to put them together. Hainsey played well last year i feel and should be our starting center in 2024; may compete for LG/RG this year. Trask hasn't proven to be a back up quality talent at QB. Some will say bc Brady preferred Gabbert as the 2, but the play showed Gabbert was far ahead of Trask regardless. Darden - there was hopes for developing into a deep threat. Sadly didn't perform. 

2022: Too raw to determine. Otton and Keift look like keepers at TE and TE/FB role. Otton was a steal in my opinion and will only get better. Hall, Goedeke have upside. So does McCollum. Carmada should hold down the Punter job for years but I'm not patting Licht for finding this position in round 4. White should be the top back unless they pull something crazy and take Robinson at 19. He showed promise to be a versatile back. 

Agreed, they shouldn't be fringe starters. Like I said, he hasn't developed into what majority of people thought he would. He's shown the flashes, but never gotten the consistentcy at all. However, to me I define a 'bust' as something completely different. If I'm labeling a guy a true bust, he's a guy who's no longer playing meaningful or out of the league/not on the field at all. Devin hasn't lived up to his draft status, but I stil lthink he's a guy you'l lsee continue to start in the league for the next few years at least. Not worth the top 5 pick, but not a true 'bust' IMO.

There is a lot of high end talent on that draft list from Licht. Like i said, he's shown ability to find stars and to that, outside of the 1st round as well. That is a trait not all GM's have. He's got to get better at drafting the depth though IMO and like you said, hitting on those blue-chip guys inside the top 5-10 when there. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by kgarrett12486

[RedandPewterReturns]

43 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said:

Agreed, they shouldn't be fringe starters. Like I said, he hasn't developed into what majority of people thought he would. He's shown the flashes, but never gotten the consistentcy at all. However, to me I define a 'bust' as something completely different. If I'm labeling a guy a true bust, he's a guy who's no longer playing meaningful or out of the league/not on the field at all. Devin hasn't lived up to his draft status, but I stil lthink he's a guy you'l lsee continue to start in the league for the next few years at least. Not worth the top 5 pick, but not a true 'bust' IMO.

There is a lot of high end talent on that draft list from Licht. Like i said, he's shown ability to find stars and to that, outside of the 1st round as well. That is a trait not all GM's have. He's got to get better at drafting the depth though IMO and like you said, hitting on those blue-chip guys inside the top 5-10 when there. 

Agree on Licht finding guys outside of round 1. But it's been proven he's struggled to nail the QB position. Landing Tom Brady is one thing. It looks like he's about to miss again on a QB in Trask (add that to McCown and Jameis as guys they brought in to start). 

Yeah I get it - Trask may be a golden find if he turns it up in year 3. But Baker was brought in for a reason - along with them scouting Hooker, Young, Stroud, Levis, and Richardson kind of shows - what they've seen in trask isn't all that great. 

[YoungBucs15]

On 4/14/2023 at 11:50 AM, RedandPewterReturns said:

Agree on Licht finding guys outside of round 1. But it's been proven he's struggled to nail the QB position. Landing Tom Brady is one thing. It looks like he's about to miss again on a QB in Trask (add that to McCown and Jameis as guys they brought in to start). 

Yeah I get it - Trask may be a golden find if he turns it up in year 3. But Baker was brought in for a reason - along with them scouting Hooker, Young, Stroud, Levis, and Richardson kind of shows - what they've seen in trask isn't all that great. 

So I guess in the end are we assuming that Licht is the only one that is responsible for the picks? That the coaching staff has zero input on this? I agree that he needs to have his share of the blame but BA and Koetter get a share of it. I feel that as a GM he is giving his input but if Koetter goes out and says he wanted McCown as a backup, Licht tries to make it happen. 

[RedandPewterReturns]

On 4/19/2023 at 5:32 PM, YoungBucs15 said:

So I guess in the end are we assuming that Licht is the only one that is responsible for the picks? That the coaching staff has zero input on this? I agree that he needs to have his share of the blame but BA and Koetter get a share of it. I feel that as a GM he is giving his input but if Koetter goes out and says he wanted McCown as a backup, Licht tries to make it happen. 

Koetter wasn't the coach or OC during the McClown days. Yes partnering with the coach is ideal and making sure the players fit the scheme. But .... bringing in Josh McCown expecting him to be Rich gannon at 37 years old was something the GM needs to step in and say "this isn't ideal". The GM ultimately makes the decisions. It's why so many coaches have failed and made horrible picks when doing both jobs. The scouts and GMs take flights in season to see guys play and are constantly watching the film throughout the year while coaches are coaching and putting together game plans. 

So at the end of the day, Licht has final call on drafts yes. And you have to judge him on picks - why does TJ Edwards and Pratt become better starters found in rounds 3/4 at ILB than a guy like Devin White who was picked top 5 overall ? Freak athleticism doesn't always equal great football player. 

And if you want to say scheme fit - why did Licht give Carlton Davis a contract extension when he doesn't exactly fit what Bowles wants? Davis isn't really the most athletic corner, not fast, and struggles with speedy receivers who are getting faster and faster coming out of school? 

Overall, I think Licht has done a good job however he's missed on two top 5 pciks in White and Winston. Two top 20 picks in Hargreaves and Howard. 

I didn't like his approach to the 2021 draft basically saying the team didn't have many weaknesses but didn't plan for the future on some of those selections in Trask and Hainsey. Still TBD on Tryon which was the right pick at 32.