Justin Fields

[Madmike90]

17 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Yeah but it’s probably the most important thing. 
 

Yeah they love Justin, but that’s because they haven’t seen Caleb in practice yet. 

 

I bet the Patriots roster loved Bledsoe before Tom played too. Don’t overthink it. 

I don't think anyone is overthinking it...Fields plus talent around him gives us the best chance to win soon than Caleb and less talent around him does.

[Madmike90]

Here's a totally hypothetical questions with probably no way to prove it either way (unless the 9ers get really unlucky with injury) so no one get overly defensive of their opinions but I just find it fascinating to see what people's answers are hahahahha...

Would the 49ers offence be better in it's current form with Purdy and all those weapons or with Caleb Williams but with Kettle & Aiyuk removed and replaced with backup level talents?

[beardown3231]

49 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

I don't think anyone is overthinking it...Fields plus talent around him gives us the best chance to win soon than Caleb and less talent around him does.

They can get a 2nd and 4th for Fields + maybe a 3rd & a 2025 1st if they trade down from ~10 to 17-20

Not every weapon comes from the draft. They can sign a WR too

The whole "if they draft Williams, they can't add weapons" part of the argument can stop

Edited January 2 by beardown3231

[Sugashane]

28 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

They can get a 2nd and 4th for Fields + maybe a 3rd & a 2025 1st if they trade down from ~10 to 17-20

Not every weapon comes from the draft. They can sign a WR too

The whole "if they draft Williams, they can't add weapons" part of the argument can stop

Especially with the cutting of EJax and Whitehair getting the Bears over $80 mil in cap space. If you can't afford talent now, imagine how restricted the talent will be when Fields wants his $40+ mil per year.

[Madmike90]

Just now, Sugashane said:

Especially with the cutting of EJax and Whitehair getting the Bears over $80 mil in cap space. If you can't afford talent now, imagine how restricted the talent will be when Fields wants his $40+ mil per year.

I don't think anyone is saying there isn't multiple ways of adding talent to this team...just that if you don't need a QB early then it is easier to get the very top talent in the draft which IMO along side Fields would make us better than Caleb with lesser talent.

[Sugashane]

1 minute ago, Madmike90 said:

I don't think anyone is saying there isn't multiple ways of adding talent to this team...just that if you don't need a QB early then it is easier to get the very top talent in the draft which IMO along side Fields would make us better than Caleb with lesser talent.

That only holds true if Caleb is only as good or lesser than Fields. I still have a lot of reservations on Fields being a good enough passer to play in a regular system, and much more reservations about Chicago being competent enough to cater the offense to his strengths.

[Madmike90]

1 minute ago, Sugashane said:

That only holds true if Caleb is only as good or lesser than Fields. I still have a lot of reservations on Fields being a good enough passer to play in a regular system, and much more reservations about Chicago being competent enough to cater the offense to his strengths.

The thing is as good as Caleb is no one knows what he will be in the pros...I have seen some crazy things like people saying the minute he steps into the NFL he is a top-10 QB...enough of that nonsense...rookies are still rookies and as great of a prospect he is he is still just a prospect ala Bryce Young...I think he will be a better passer than Fields in the pros but I also think the "Fields can't throw" argument is so overblown it is unreal...look at him throwing to DJ Moore and tell me dude can't throw...get Fields in a scheme that allows him to push the ball down the field and people will start to remember what his throwing was like at Ohio State where no one really questions it outside of the slow-ish motion.

[Sugashane]

1 minute ago, Madmike90 said:

The thing is as good as Caleb is no one knows what he will be in the pros...I have seen some crazy things like people saying the minute he steps into the NFL he is a top-10 QB...enough of that nonsense...rookies are still rookies and as great of a prospect he is he is still just a prospect ala Bryce Young...I think he will be a better passer than Fields in the pros but I also think the "Fields can't throw" argument is so overblown it is unreal...look at him throwing to DJ Moore and tell me dude can't throw...get Fields in a scheme that allows him to push the ball down the field and people will start to remember what his throwing was like at Ohio State where no one really questions it outside of the slow-ish motion.

I agree but you can say the same about other positions, which you are basing a lot of your decision (at least topically, I could be wrong) on being able to surround Fields with more talent via the draft. While a lot of #1 draft picks have busted, so have a lot of the first WRs to be drafted.

It's a gamble regardless.

Also Fields can definitely throw, I just don't feel he can read a defense well/fast enough for consistent success as a passer if they take away the run game. Maybe a better mind can work with him and develop him, but three years in he just doesn't seem like a guy that will be able to compare to the best QBs in the league to me. On a rookie deal I have zero issues keeping him, but looking at what his 2nd contract would be I don't believe he is worth Daniel Jones money - and he is absolutely better than Jones so he will want it.

I'm fine whatever happens, but we will see if he can take another big step forward and lead a consistent offense.

[Madmike90]

3 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I agree but you can say the same about other positions, which you are basing a lot of your decision (at least topically, I could be wrong) on being able to surround Fields with more talent via the draft. While a lot of #1 draft picks have busted, so have a lot of the first WRs to be drafted.

It's a gamble regardless.

Also Fields can definitely throw, I just don't feel he can read a defense well/fast enough for consistent success as a passer if they take away the run game. Maybe a better mind can work with him and develop him, but three years in he just doesn't seem like a guy that will be able to compare to the best QBs in the league to me. On a rookie deal I have zero issues keeping him, but looking at what his 2nd contract would be I don't believe he is worth Daniel Jones money - and he is absolutely better than Jones so he will want it.

I'm fine whatever happens, but we will see if he can take another big step forward and lead a consistent offense.

There is a jump for all players but no where near as big as QBs IMO...

I have posted about this before but the "best QB in the league" argument is always subjective to me outside of the top 3-4 guys at any one time...everything will tell you statistically Purdy is a top 10 QB...lots of people will tell you Hurts is a top 10 QB...I have no idea how anyone can think either are better than Fields...like I said it's all subjective...I think the contract argument is a really weak one because Fields would make around $6 million next year and a little north of $20 million in 2025...then you could tag him pretty easily in 2026 if you still weren't sure...the situation to me is very similar to Dak Prescott a few years back...there is not the rush some of the media might want people to believe to resign Fields or have to chase the "rookie QB contract route" plenty of time and options to properly determine if Fields is the guy with proper talent around him as he has shown when targeting his two talented weapons this season.

[beardown3231]

26 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I agree but you can say the same about other positions, which you are basing a lot of your decision (at least topically, I could be wrong) on being able to surround Fields with more talent via the draft. While a lot of #1 draft picks have busted, so have a lot of the first WRs to be drafted.

It's a gamble regardless.

Also Fields can definitely throw, I just don't feel he can read a defense well/fast enough for consistent success as a passer if they take away the run game. Maybe a better mind can work with him and develop him, but three years in he just doesn't seem like a guy that will be able to compare to the best QBs in the league to me. On a rookie deal I have zero issues keeping him, but looking at what his 2nd contract would be I don't believe he is worth Daniel Jones money - and he is absolutely better than Jones so he will want it.

I'm fine whatever happens, but we will see if he can take another big step forward and lead a consistent offense.

Here's the issue:

If Fields is good on Sunday- "see? Now imagine what he can do with more weapons!"

If Fields sucks on Sunday- "see? He needs more weapons and you'll see how good he is!"

It's like a no-lose situations for his defenders. I really want him to be the guy. He's fun to watch and seems to handle himself well. The rumor is he works hard as hell at it too. It just seems like there's a ton of excuses for his play

Edited January 2 by beardown3231

[Sugashane]

4 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

There is a jump for all players but no where near as big as QBs IMO...

I have posted about this before but the "best QB in the league" argument is always subjective to me outside of the top 3-4 guys at any one time...everything will tell you statistically Purdy is a top 10 QB...lots of people will tell you Hurts is a top 10 QB...I have no idea how anyone can think either are better than Fields...like I said it's all subjective...I think the contract argument is a really weak one because Fields would make around $6 million next year and a little north of $20 million in 2025...then you could tag him pretty easily in 2026 if you still weren't sure...the situation to me is very similar to Dak Prescott a few years back...there is not the rush some of the media might want people to believe to resign Fields or have to chase the "rookie QB contract route" plenty of time and options to properly determine if Fields is the guy with proper talent around him as he has shown when targeting his two talented weapons this season.

Meh, I just don't see how it could take potentially 70 starts to know if Fields is "the guy." If so then Poles isn't worth a damn at his job and needs to be replaced ASAP. I don't believe he is anywhere near that bad at his job fwiw. **** or get off the pot, so to speak.

As of right now he is a guy who tends to get you around 3300 yards of offense over a year. He would be on pace for more than that this year but was injured, again. This is the first year he has been able to average about 250 total yards of offense, but he has not been consistent at all. As long as the Bears don't **** the bed vs GB this will be the first time he has led an offense that scored 23.8ppg for a season (if we disregard the MIN game he was injured in, though that was definitely turning out poorly for him there in his limited time). So there is improvement, but for every WAS or DEN game that he looks like the guy he has a CLE or KC game where he looks like a CFL player. If he could raise that floor I'd be a lot happier with him longterm.

[Sugashane]

Just now, beardown3231 said:

Here's the issue:

If Fields is good on Sunday- "see? imagine what he can do with more weapons!"

If Fields sucks on Sunday- "see? He needs more weapons and it'll take off"

It's like a no-lose situations for his defenders. I really want him to be the guy. He's fun to watch and seems to handle himself well. The rumor is he works hard as hell at it too. It just seems like there's a ton of excuses for his play

Agreed. The situation will never be perfect, there will always be something to deal with whether it is a player's health, scheme issues, or the other team just being more talented.

Sometimes you just need to be able to play well in spite of the negative factors. Whether Fields is the guy here or elsewhere I'll be a fan of his, but I haven't been convinced he will be he is a top 10 QB in any way.

[beardown3231]

Just now, Sugashane said:

Agreed. The situation will never be perfect, there will always be something to deal with whether it is a player's health, scheme issues, or the other team just being more talented.

Sometimes you just need to be able to play well in spite of the negative factors. Whether Fields is the guy here or elsewhere I'll be a fan of his, but I haven't been convinced he will be he is a top 10 QB in any way.

And you just have a way to say it much nicer than me evidently, but that's how I feel, so let me try to it in a non-argumentative way:  I don't hate him. I don't think he's horrible. I just think the two top QB's in this draft have a much higher floor than he does. Both are better throwers. Both see the field better. One I compare to Rodgers, one I compare to Herbert mixed with Cutler. I'd take either over Fields

And please, miss me with the "the players love him" stuff. Good. Then Moore, Brisker, Herbert, Sweat and Stevenson can all request trades and then they'llreally be able to have a bunch of assets for Maye or Williams!  

[Madmike90]

4 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Meh, I just don't see how it could take potentially 70 starts to know if Fields is "the guy." If so then Poles isn't worth a damn at his job and needs to be replaced ASAP. I don't believe he is anywhere near that bad at his job fwiw. **** or get off the pot, so to speak.

As of right now he is a guy who tends to get you around 3300 yards of offense over a year. He would be on pace for more than that this year but was injured, again. This is the first year he has been able to average about 250 total yards of offense, but he has not been consistent at all. As long as the Bears don't **** the bed vs GB this will be the first time he has led an offense that scored 23.8ppg for a season (if we disregard the MIN game he was injured in, though that was definitely turning out poorly for him there in his limited time). So there is improvement, but for every WAS or DEN game that he looks like the guy he has a CLE or KC game where he looks like a CFL player. If he could raise that floor I'd be a lot happier with him longterm.

But again this is where the chicken & egg argument will go on for ever more...if we don't feel we have the offensive coordinators or schemes right and we sure haven't had a lot of talent around him why do we expect Fields to be able to elevate everyone around him and be the guy on a weekly basis? He isn't Manning or Brady and never will be...but for me he has been given a pretty ****ty hand and done nothing but be professional, become the leader of the team & at times single handled been the only offence we have had...that for me is all a massive tick in the box for him and leads me to believe that getting him some more proper help around him will lead to far greater success because the talent is clear as both a runner and IMO a passer.

[Sugashane]

8 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

But again this is where the chicken & egg argument will go on for ever more...if we don't feel we have the offensive coordinators or schemes right and we sure haven't had a lot of talent around him why do we expect Fields to be able to elevate everyone around him and be the guy on a weekly basis? He isn't Manning or Brady and never will be...but for me he has been given a pretty ****ty hand and done nothing but be professional, become the leader of the team & at times single handled been the only offence we have had...that for me is all a massive tick in the box for him and leads me to believe that getting him some more proper help around him will lead to far greater success because the talent is clear as both a runner and IMO a passer.

If you can't get the coordinator right then your GM needs fired. Let Warren clean house and keep a better roster than what Poles inherited.

As far as being a professional, that should be expected. He is making millions to play a game, that should be a minimum expectation of him. That doesn't make any difference to me unless he would fail to meet that expectation. Rodgers seemed like an ******* but he produced, so that was the big thing. As long as they aren't breaking the law and jacking up the team I couldn't care much less. I want production.

There will always be a way to spin a concern. At times he was the only offense the Bears had, and at times he was the limiting factor of the offense. A better QB might have been able to make it work with Mooney and some of the other weapons, a better QB could have potentially made Getsy's system work really well, etc.

Like I said, of Eberflus and Fields are retained it won't upset me. It's not what I would do but I'm nothing more than an armchair GM, so it doesn't really matter what I think. lol   If they draft MHJ 1st overall I will think Poles is an idiot for that, but he has been able to steadily increase the talent all across the roster so he deserves the benefit of the doubt. If the offense doesn't take a serious step forward then IMO its 100% time to pull the plug on the Eberflus and Fields experience.