Needs, more or less

[rlon]

As we are at this point of the season, perhaps as compared to how you thought earlier in the year, which 2024 positional need is more pronounced than you thought, and which need is less than it appeared earlier in the season?

 

I was never thinking of running back as a primary need, but I have to admit that the need is less than I had conceptualized it. I have been impressed as of late, with Najee, and Warren is the perfect change of pace. 

As to more of a need than I thought, that’s a tough one. While it was clearly a need, I think DL is a more pronounced need now (perhaps our greatest need draft wise), after watching this DL the past few weeks, and given Heyward’s age and Ogunjobi’s apparent ineffectiveness. 

[zflairway]

7 hours ago, rlon said:

As we are at this point of the season, perhaps as compared to how you thought earlier in the year, which 2024 positional need is more pronounced than you thought, and which need is less than it appeared earlier in the season?

 

I was never thinking of running back as a primary need, but I have to admit that the need is less than I had conceptualized it. I have been impressed as of late, with Najee, and Warren is the perfect change of pace. 

As to more of a need than I thought, that’s a tough one. While it was clearly a need, I think DL is a more pronounced need now (perhaps our greatest need draft wise), after watching this DL the past few weeks, and given Heyward’s age and Ogunjobi’s apparent ineffectiveness. 

Najee and Warren work well together because Warren sets the rhythm of the game. Whereas before, Harris would run into a brick wall as the defense is used to his pace of play, now they're caught up in Warren so much that Najee is a far better back because of it. If you happen to lose one of these guys, Miyan Williams from Ohio State is a guy that'll go undrafted or dictate pace and take him 7th round. There's two ways how I envision 7th round picks. You have your character or injury concern kind of guys box, you disregard the entire "Kiper board" as the entire NFL has lumped their selections around this glut of undesirables, and then you have your guys ranked 500 on these Kiper boards that are deemed short, or small, or whatever, and a lot of these negative traits are positive traits, like when you look at Jaylen Warren. Not fast enough. Ok, he's agile and a tough runner with good vision. He doesn't need to be fast, he needs to make you miss, and that's how he makes you miss.

[AFF]

Haven’t really changed…very basic…OL/DL/DB/WR

[JustPlainNasty]

Team Needs 

1. Center that can snap the ball consistently and strongly. 

2. Nickel Corner 

 

3. Long Term Defensive Tackle / 5 Tech type

4. Log Term Tackle Upgrade

5. Inside Linebacker (young guy to immediately replace Mark Robinson as the young cheap guy, by this point he should be showing signs of significant improvement but without studying him closely seem to keep noticing significant letdowns. Inside linebacker is an instinct position. You either have it or you dont, you can be the best athlete and suck at the position, just like everything that 0.1 to 0.2 second difference in reaction in pro sports. 

6. Legitimate 3rd WR. Arob is done and the gimmick WR is not going anywhere special, sadly not even on punt returns. No different than he was in college tbh, imo.

 

7. Legitimate 3rd running back. We seem to avoid garnering up and coming depth at the position in the draft  and rather attain & maintain lumbering college media legends like Benny Snell forever. Not sure what we have against explosiveness. Jaylen Warren is the most explosive guy we've had in a long time. 

8. Safety up and comer

9. An outside Corner. This could be #2 but I think finding the right nickel could make a huge difference with the current roster. 

10. Guard. Those two guys can be upgraded also their contracts aren't long term. Nate is a passer through. 

 

 

[3rivers]

ILB - what about bringing back Rell for ILB? He is good in the box as a S, plays the run well, so could he transition to ILB? His speed should help cover TE's , plus they already know he is not a cancer  , and he is reliable. 

 

 

[JustPlainNasty]

2 hours ago, 3rivers said:

ILB - what about bringing back Rell for ILB? He is good in the box as a S, plays the run well, so could he transition to ILB? His speed should help cover TE's , plus they already know he is not a cancer  , and he is reliable. 

 

 

Who's Rell ?

[3rivers]

Terell  Edmunds

[zflairway]

EDGE is a primary need. Alex Highsmith can be replaced by any rookie.  The fact he is now getting paid big bucks makes him expendable. Apparently, the Steelers will roll over for anyone these days. Herbig is not an OLB, but an ILB mike in a sub package 3-3-5 variation. Maybe he's athletic enough to drop back in coverage but probably not.  He's best around the ball not in pursuit of it. And he's not a threat one on one against the tackle over anything but a tight spread. He's basically your Ivan Pace LB who made some waves here a few days ago. And then you got Watt, who's one of the best players in the league, but in terms of consistent pressure, which is more important than sacks, he's hit or miss. 

I'm going to throw out Adisa Isaac and put him at 52 on the board, which means his value begins at 34 and as every pick falls off his value declines in respect to the board. Once we hit 52, and he's still there, he's not more valuable, we're probably in the wrong with our board with the player, and he shouldn't be on our board at all. There are no Curt Browns, remember that Kiper board pick. There are no Calvin Austin's.

 

We can look at the Broderick Jones example as a lesson with trades and value (in respect to the board). The board is the value, not value added or gained, from moving up or down the draft board, which is why the Steelers didn't move up and down the draft board for all of those years. With Forbes and Jones available and only three picks to dodge, you're sitting in a pretty good spot. While I love Broderick Jones, I believe it is very possible to still have gotten one of Forbes or Jones at 17, as-is, kept the 4th rd pick, and used that 4th rd pick on Darnell Washington. Suddenly, you just created a third rd pick, which should be a sure-fire starter 9 times out of 10.

The Darnell Washington pick is a prime example of not being educated in respect to the board. He's not a starter. He's a valuable appendage as a right tackle wingman in various offensive sub packages, that can, as a 2nd TE slip out in various PA packages on in single TE sets. He goes in the 5th round. You create value and add draft picks by taking players where you rank them, not where other people rank them. Once they go past the board, you can leave their name on the cutting room floor. 

 

[zflairway]

20 hours ago, 3rivers said:

ILB - what about bringing back Rell for ILB? He is good in the box as a S, plays the run well, so could he transition to ILB? His speed should help cover TE's , plus they already know he is not a cancer  , and he is reliable. 

 

 

I saw Rell at the airport with a bag (container of cash) and he's 5'10 3/8" on a good day. Maybe Ferrell can be rell. Terrell Edmunds might be more like party snacks bc you get feasted on all day. 

Jackson Mitchell might be the guy more in terms of the SF 49ers cover linebacker that you covet for nickel and dime defense. Smooth in his drop. And I only saw him on one play 

[rlon]

7 hours ago, zflairway said:

EDGE is a primary need. Alex Highsmith can be replaced by any rookie.  The fact he is now getting paid big bucks makes him expendable. Apparently, the Steelers will roll over for anyone these days. Herbig is not an OLB, but an ILB mike in a sub package 3-3-5 variation. Maybe he's athletic enough to drop back in coverage but probably not.  He's best around the ball not in pursuit of it. And he's not a threat one on one against the tackle over anything but a tight spread. He's basically your Ivan Pace LB who made some waves here a few days ago. And then you got Watt, who's one of the best players in the league, but in terms of consistent pressure, which is more important than sacks, he's hit or miss. 

I'm going to throw out Adisa Isaac and put him at 52 on the board, which means his value begins at 34 and as every pick falls off his value declines in respect to the board. Once we hit 52, and he's still there, he's not more valuable, we're probably in the wrong with our board with the player, and he shouldn't be on our board at all. There are no Curt Browns, remember that Kiper board pick. There are no Calvin Austin's.

 

We can look at the Broderick Jones example as a lesson with trades and value (in respect to the board). The board is the value, not value added or gained, from moving up or down the draft board, which is why the Steelers didn't move up and down the draft board for all of those years. With Forbes and Jones available and only three picks to dodge, you're sitting in a pretty good spot. While I love Broderick Jones, I believe it is very possible to still have gotten one of Forbes or Jones at 17, as-is, kept the 4th rd pick, and used that 4th rd pick on Darnell Washington. Suddenly, you just created a third rd pick, which should be a sure-fire starter 9 times out of 10.

The Darnell Washington pick is a prime example of not being educated in respect to the board. He's not a starter. He's a valuable appendage as a right tackle wingman in various offensive sub packages, that can, as a 2nd TE slip out in various PA packages on in single TE sets. He goes in the 5th round. You create value and add draft picks by taking players where you rank them, not where other people rank them. Once they go past the board, you can leave their name on the cutting room floor. 

 

I stopped reading you at ‘edge is a primary need’ and I should have trusted my instinct two posts ago…lol.

[zflairway]

1 hour ago, rlon said:

I stopped reading you at ‘edge is a primary need’ and I should have trusted my instinct two posts ago…lol.

Highsmith is bland with nothing special about him, nevermind no get off, strength to dominate, or any moves to speak of. Maybe a weaker Bud Dupree, who is kinda like the comp for Solomon from Troy. Slow out the gates is the name of their game. Herbig is out of position and undersized but lacking the strength for the position. Like number five from Michigan. Josaiah Stewart might be the name. Could be a WILL. Watt is a depreciating asset with two prime years left and two contract years remaining. 

It doesn't look too promising 🥱

[rlon]

On 1/4/2024 at 10:17 PM, zflairway said:

Highsmith is bland with nothing special about him, nevermind no get off, strength to dominate, or any moves to speak of. Maybe a weaker Bud Dupree, who is kinda like the comp for Solomon from Troy. Slow out the gates is the name of their game. Herbig is out of position and undersized but lacking the strength for the position. Like number five from Michigan. Josaiah Stewart might be the name. Could be a WILL. Watt is a depreciating asset with two prime years left and two contract years remaining. 

It doesn't look too promising 🥱

Highsmith isn’t as strong against the run as Dupree, but he’s solid there. What’s special about him, at least in my opinion, is his spin move. I do think Herbig will be the better player, if he stays at the edge. I just don’t see this as a draft priority, however …on defense alone, I’d rate DT, ILB, CB and S all higher as needs for this team. And DL might be twice on that list before I’d even think about edge.

Edited January 6 by rlon

[warfelg]

Highsmith has the fastest get off in the league. Herbigs sacks have mostly been effort plays so far. 

[rlon]

43 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Highsmith has the fastest get off in the league. Herbigs sacks have mostly been effort plays so far. 

I don’t think there is an issue with a Highsmith’s get off, agree with you there. Herbig’s play was both effort and technique IMO, and he used a Watt technique to get through the arms of the last blocker. I am not down on Highsmith, like some others, I just think Herbig has a glow about him so to speak. He will be an elite defender in this league, wherever they put him….I don’t think the decision to move Herbig to ILB is as clear of a translation as it is for me regarding Moore to OG, however. I think Moore is a natural guard if put there. I don’t know that Herbig is a Chad Brown, though, as not many are. I see elite pas rushing traits and some upside in coverage, not sure he is a potentially elite run defender.

[warfelg]

I see a decent pass rusher. I say most his plays have been effort plays because they are coming outside 3.0 seconds after the snap. Our starting duo had been generating pressure under 2.2.