Steelers 2024 NFL Draft Prospects

[armsteeld]

17 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Wilson has some scary injuries.  Very good LB but that is a red flag

Look at Wilson's upper body and you can see how underdeveloped he is compared to most ILBs. That thin frame constantly jamming up against 330lb OL won't be good for him. That's why the Cowboys LB just retired because of an old injury that was reaggravated.

[warfelg]

17 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

Legette isn't Metcalf. He runs good routes. He has no lower body stiffness either. Watch him vs Georgia....

 

 

I disagree on this, got to be honest.  That first catch is not a good break into or out of the route.  Super rounded and drifted about 3 yards upfield on it.  His arms flap out a ton on breaks.  That slant at 1:36 is terrible, so bad I thought it was a post or crosser at first.  No plant and burst out of that spot.  On the swing pass he should have put his foot in the turf and gone inside the block, since you know, that’s what was set for him.  The come back - don’t know what the corner was doing there, he was watching Rattler not Legget.  So many studded steps and arm flapping to come back for the ball. His screen balls show no burst.  In both of them he failed to make someone miss.  In the NFL you need to be able to make at least one guy miss on those. He has a route he wasn’t targeted where he just meandered over the middle.  Again another comeback from the slot where he drifted and flapped arms at the top and struggled to get more separation away from someone that looked to be a LBer.

 

[warfelg]

30 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

Look at Wilson's upper body and you can see how underdeveloped he is compared to most ILBs. That thin frame constantly jamming up against 330lb OL won't be good for him. That's why the Cowboys LB just retired because of an old injury that was reaggravated.

Well, Trent Williams did block him in the back right into Parsons.

[armsteeld]

Just now, warfelg said:

Well, Trent Williams did block him in the back right into Parsons.

He has had neck injuries since his days at Boise State. The Cowboys take chances on back)neck injury guys like the two LBs from LSU they took. Both were great players but neck injuries are tricky. That being said, WR Mike Williams (neck or back) hasn't missed any games since he became a pro.

[armsteeld]

3 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I disagree on this, got to be honest.  That first catch is not a good break into or out of the route.  Super rounded and drifted about 3 yards upfield on it.  His arms flap out a ton on breaks.  That slant at 1:36 is terrible, so bad I thought it was a post or crosser at first.  No plant and burst out of that spot.  On the swing pass he should have put his foot in the turf and gone inside the block, since you know, that’s what was set for him.  The come back - don’t know what the corner was doing there, he was watching Rattler not Legget.  So many studded steps and arm flapping to come back for the ball. His screen balls show no burst.  In both of them he failed to make someone miss.  In the NFL you need to be able to make at least one guy miss on those. He has a route he wasn’t targeted where he just meandered over the middle.  Again another comeback from the slot where he drifted and flapped arms at the top and struggled to get more separation away from someone that looked to be a LBer.

 

@warfelg those are solid routes. The explosion, the quick breakdowns, no drifting, no extra steps, etc.... those are pretty crisp to me.

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, armsteeld said:

He has had neck injuries since his days at Boise State. The Cowboys take chances on back)neck injury guys like the two LBs from LSU they took. Both were great players but neck injuries are tricky. That being said, WR Mike Williams (neck or back) hasn't missed any games since he became a pro.

Oh I know.  Just saying the hit that did him in was not a run of the mill football play.

 

[warfelg]

2 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

@warfelg those are solid routes. The explosion, the quick breakdowns, no drifting, no extra steps, etc.... those are pretty crisp to me.

You are one of the few people saying that about Legette.  He’s not laterally quick and doesn’t change direction well.

[armsteeld]

21 minutes ago, warfelg said:

You are one of the few people saying that about Legette.  He’s not laterally quick and doesn’t change direction well.

It's one of 3 things:

1) Many people don't understand route runnnig.

2) Many people don't understand body mechanics. Years ago, I was at the forefront saying that edge rushers don't have bend but rather good ankle flexion.

3) I'm freaking clueless lol.

A 6'1 227lb WR isn't going to look the same as a 5'10 180lb WR. It's damn near impossible. You never hear people saying Calvin Johnon was a bad route runner because Detroit fed him routes that he could quickly execute.

[rlon]

41 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

@warfelg those are solid routes. The explosion, the quick breakdowns, no drifting, no extra steps, etc.... those are pretty crisp to me.

I don’t see any drifting but he looks a little stiff to me. Looks like a mini Metcalf, to be honest. I am not the film guru that you to guys are though. And, I thought Metcalf would be a bust…to be honest. Who is the guy with good size who moves like someone much smaller? I’d say Polk, and I like him on day 2. 

[jebrick]

Legette will need a year to learn his craft.  He can run some routes but needs to learn to RUN ROUTES.  But he is a big Wr that can make contested catches and is physical so that fits with what Smith has shown to like.

Not saying he is the best WR for the Steelers but YMMV

[warfelg]

2 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

It's one of 3 things:

1) Many people don't understand route runnnig.

2) Many people don't understand body mechanics. Years ago, I was at the forefront saying that edge rushers don't have bend but rather good ankle flexion.

3) I'm freaking clueless lol.

A 6'1 227lb WR isn't going to look the same as a 5'10 180lb WR. It's damn near impossible. You never hear people saying Calvin Johnon was a bad route runner because Detroit fed him routes that he could quickly execute.

I wouldn’t say you’re clueless but there’s a lot of good talent evaluators that are pointing to his hips being tight.  I’ve been studying biomechanics for a few years as a golf instructor and the things that oddly go into making a good route runner also play into having a good swing.  Joke in the gold business is that Tiger Woods and Brooks Koepka would be amazing LB’s because of their size (they are both about 6’1” 215), and I always said they would be better WR’s.  Their hips are really loose and can get a good amount of lumbar rotation.

The issue he has is the choppy steps in and out of the breaks and the flapping of the arms.  It gives away that he’s about to cut, which good DB’s will take advantage of.  Watch Calvin Johnson’s route running again.  Yea he wasn’t an on the point cutter but he had the cleaner movement.

Since you brought up AJ Brown, check out how smooth his cuts are and how Low his arms stay:

He’s able to run with a low COG that allows him to move like that and his hips can open one sided.  Legette’s abductors and flexors are tight and causes him to need to use both sides of his hips to turn them.  So he needs to slow himself to make sharp cuts and comebacks.

This isn’t to say Legette can’t be a great player, but he’s going to have a route tree that tends to be more limited and avoided double moves because the second move will slow him down more.  H’es going to need to learn to not dip his head and flap his arms to get in and out of breaks.  His hips being tight means his stability and rotational joints get inverted through the plant and turn movement causing problems at speed.  That’s why he either rounds off (meaning ankle is used for stability and knee for rotation) or really slows down (so the ankle can be rotational and knee can be stable).

[armsteeld]

11 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I wouldn’t say you’re clueless but there’s a lot of good talent evaluators that are pointing to his hips being tight.  I’ve been studying biomechanics for a few years as a golf instructor and the things that oddly go into making a good route runner also play into having a good swing.  Joke in the gold business is that Tiger Woods and Brooks Koepka would be amazing LB’s because of their size (they are both about 6’1” 215), and I always said they would be better WR’s.  Their hips are really loose and can get a good amount of lumbar rotation.

The issue he has is the choppy steps in and out of the breaks and the flapping of the arms.  It gives away that he’s about to cut, which good DB’s will take advantage of.  Watch Calvin Johnson’s route running again.  Yea he wasn’t an on the point cutter but he had the cleaner movement.

Since you brought up AJ Brown, check out how smooth his cuts are and how Low his arms stay:

He’s able to run with a low COG that allows him to move like that and his hips can open one sided.  Legette’s abductors and flexors are tight and causes him to need to use both sides of his hips to turn them.  So he needs to slow himself to make sharp cuts and comebacks.

This isn’t to say Legette can’t be a great player, but he’s going to have a route tree that tends to be more limited and avoided double moves because the second move will slow him down more.  H’es going to need to learn to not dip his head and flap his arms to get in and out of breaks.  His hips being tight means his stability and rotational joints get inverted through the plant and turn movement causing problems at speed.  That’s why he either rounds off (meaning ankle is used for stability and knee for rotation) or really slows down (so the ankle can be rotational and knee can be stable).

Mike Mayock screwed the football world up by constantly offering coaching points. Those points are invalid during games. When I instructed my soldiers in D&C, everything was crisp, sharp, 45° this blah blah so I used to think running routes in football was the same way as far as the crispness/sharpness of routes. It's the complete opposite because you don't have the luxury of slowing down to execute that route because CBs will jump it. Teams allow their guys to drift/sail as long as the QB is familiar with the depth that they normally execute it.

You can draw something up on paper but shouldn't expect your players be as sharp because the speed of the game eliminates that. Football always has/will be a game of spaces. You run to the empty spots which are designed to beat a particular coverage. I don't know...it seems people are putting too much thought into simple things.

[bigben07MVP]

Worth noting Legette has some of the worst analytical stats for predictive success of any WR in the draft

- Didn’t break out until his 5th year and already 23

- 30th of all WRs in QBR when targeted

- 35th (last) in career yards per route run

- 35 (last) PFF grade vs zone coverage 

- 43% contested catch rate

He’s a fascinating prospect but those numbers worry me. I fell for Jonathan Mingo last year and I feel like Legette could have a similar fate (not that Mingo couldn’t end up being a good player, but he had an awful rookie year and was overdrafted)

[warfelg]

8 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

Mike Mayock screwed the football world up by constantly offering coaching points. Those points are invalid during games. When I instructed my soldiers in D&C, everything was crisp, sharp, 45° this blah blah so I used to think running routes in football was the same way as far as the crispness/sharpness of routes. It's the complete opposite because you don't have the luxury of slowing down to execute that route because CBs will jump it. Teams allow their guys to drift/sail as long as the QB is familiar with the depth that they normally execute it.

You can draw something up on paper but shouldn't expect your players be as sharp because the speed of the game eliminates that. Football always has/will be a game of spaces. You run to the empty spots which are designed to beat a particular coverage. I don't know...it seems people are putting too much thought into simple things.

I hated Mayock so I actively avoided him. 

But for the sharpness just look at some of his in routes on the UGA game. They just kinda…wander. No no one expects to see perfect cuts but when he needs 5 yards and 6 steps to make a cut that needs to be 2 steps and 3 yards it’s a big difference in pick vrs TD. 

[jebrick]

14 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

Worth noting Legette has some of the worst analytical stats for predictive success of any WR in the draft

- Didn’t break out until his 5th year and already 23

- 30th of all WRs in QBR when targeted

- 35th (last) in career yards per route run

- 35 (last) PFF grade vs zone coverage 

- 43% contested catch rate

He’s a fascinating prospect but those numbers worry me. I fell for Jonathan Mingo last year and I feel like Legette could have a similar fate (not that Mingo couldn’t end up being a good player, but he had an awful rookie year and was overdrafted)

Which is why he would be fine in the 2nd round.  I would hate him in the 1st.