Kyle Shanahan

[notthatbluestuff]

1 minute ago, MaddHatter said:

So does that make Doug Peterson, Tom Coughlin, Jon Gruden, and Brian Billick the greatest coaches ever?  They did what Kyle, Reid, and even the GOAT Belicheck never did - won a Super Bowl with the 2nd best QB on the field. 

Was 2001 Brady better than 2001 Warner?

[MaddHatter]

Just now, notthatbluestuff said:

Was 2001 Brady better than 2001 Warner?

Ooooh... Good point - forgot about that - I stand corrected, point remains, haha

[stl4life07]

On 2/16/2024 at 9:19 AM, MaddHatter said:

So does that make Doug Peterson, Tom Coughlin, Jon Gruden, and Brian Billick the greatest coaches ever?  They did what Kyle, Reid, and even the GOAT Belicheck never did - won a Super Bowl with the 2nd best QB on the field. 

Foles was an outlier when you think about the most recent Superbowls you had Peyton, Russ, Brady, Mahomes, and Stafford. Even if you stretch it to Eli like those are guys that will make it to the HOF. Stafford is a fringed guy but it wouldnt shock nobody if he was in the HOF. Thats bc this league is a QB driven league.

Back in the days when Billick won with Dilfer and Gruden won with Johnson the league was more driven by a strong run game and strong defense. So you could get away with here and there with not the best QB play. As long as your QB didnt screw things up and you had a strong defense, strong running game, and a really good to great special teams and was well coached you could cover not having the best QB on the field up. Its hard to hide your QB in this day and age bc typically the best ones win especially with how great offensive minds are and the relaxed rules on offense. 

[stl4life07]

On 2/14/2024 at 11:17 PM, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Yes I do, because the operation that the 49ers run is a good one. It might not be with this core of 49ers players, but like Cower won with a different core of players later on, he can do it because the franchise is all on the same page. 49ers were already on the brink before Purdy came along, and now they have the best triggerman since Kyle has been the head coach. They've gotten just as far when the NFC was stronger, and the AFC opponent was stronger almost winning it then. Kyle is only 44 years old, and can easily coach for another 20. 

Wentz falling off a cliff after being in MVP talks is an outlier. I could name many other quarterbacks that were either MVP, or in MVP talks, and continued to play well moving forward. Wentz also had a hideous injury, and was never the same. That can happen to any player so that's not a reason to be apprehensive going forward. Purdy had a freak injury, and looked better without a training camp. 

49ers need to simply do a better job at getting guys that aren't a liability at pass blocking, no matter how good they are at run blocking. 

I think Kyle can get over the hump and win a Superbowl I just dont think he will with Purdy. Now they could prove me wrong. Purdy showed me some things in these playoffs that proves he can be capable. I just go back to what I said in that this was the best roster the Niners had, the NFC was weaker, and the Chiefs werent as strong as we've seen bc they struggled to score. Its about opportunities and cashing in. The Niners will no doubt continue to be in the mix but they need to capitalize bc the landscape in the NFL is forever changing even with the Niners. They wont stay the same team that was considered the best team/roster in the NFL throughout the season. Other teams will get significantly better and the Niners will get worse even the slightest. Injuries happen and we know the Niners arent typically the healthiest of teams. This season was the healthiest Ive ever seen the Niners. Like those are the breaks a team need to win a title.

As for Purdy the fear is that many think he will get significantly better which it could be the case but I think he will get better but not by much. His ceiling isnt as high but he can definitely fall off a cliff. See Kaepernick. Kaepernick when he first started for the Niners under Harbaugh and OC Roman he lit up the league. There were people saying he was the best QB in the league at the time and I think one ex QB who was an analyst even said he was a future HOF'er. He had the Niners in the Superbowl and can close to winning. The second Harbaugh and Roman left Kaepernick went down fast. He had a horrible record and his play fall off too. Now I do think as long as Purdy has nice weapons around him, a solid OL, and Kyle he shouldnt fall off a cliff but again things change so fast in this league you have to capitalize while you can rather than saying there is always next season thinking things will still stay relatively the same.

[Herodreamer79]

Kyle's in his 7th year guys. 

Look how long it took Andy to get over the hump. 

Found the greatest player on the planet and became an overnight dynasty. 

Edited February 18 by Herodreamer79

[Herodreamer79]

39 minutes ago, stl4life07 said:

As for Purdy the fear is that many think he will get significantly better which it could be the case but I think he will get better but not by much. His ceiling isnt as high but he can definitely fall off a cliff. See Kaepernick. Kaepernick when he first started for the Niners under Harbaugh and OC Roman he lit up the league. There were people saying he was the best QB in the league at the time and I think one ex QB who was an analyst even said he was a future HOF'er. He had the Niners in the Superbowl and can close to winning. The second Harbaugh and Roman left Kaepernick went down fast. He had a horrible record and his play fall off too.

the difference is Kaepernick didn't work on his craft. he admitted he didn't have any interest in film study or learning how to read defenses. he thought his arm talent and his legs would carry him. i would also note the 49ers had really bad drafts in the harbaugh era due to Trent Baalke. Kaepernick's play falling off coincided with the talent exodus due to an aging roster. when the core talent retired or dropped off... they had no one to replace them. even had Harbaugh stayed, the 49ers would have fallen on tough times for at least a couple years.  

Purdy is a film junkie who is dedicated to his craft. he is accurate, has elite processing speed and knows how to read defenses. He also has Kyle Shanahan. i feel like Purdy has plenty more room to get better. he's already 4-1 in the post-season when he plays the full game, has some clutchness to him and has proven that post-season football isn't too big for him.

Edited February 18 by Herodreamer79

[stl4life07]

21 minutes ago, Herodreamer79 said:

the difference is Kaepernick didn't work on his craft. he admitted he didn't have any interest in film study or learning how to read defenses. he thought his arm talent and his legs would carry him. i would also note the 49ers had really bad drafts in the harbaugh era due to Trent Baalke. Kaepernick's play falling off coincided with the talent exodus due to an aging roster. when the core talent retired or dropped off... they had no one to replace them. even had Harbaugh stayed, the 49ers would have fallen on tough times for at least a couple years.  

Purdy is a film junkie who is dedicated to his craft. he is accurate, has elite processing speed and knows how to read defenses. He also has Kyle Shanahan. i feel like Purdy has plenty more room to get better. he's already 4-1 in the post-season when he plays the full game, has some clutchness to him and has proven that post-season football isn't too big for him.

That is true. I do wish Kaepernick would’ve worked on his craft bc coaching can only take you so far. But he did great considering the situation he was in when Alex Smith got hurt. 
 

I agree the Niners draft better now than they did back in those times too. But Purdy can prove me wrong in how much he will improve over time I just want to see it bc my fear is he won’t improve as much as a lot of people think. 

[Nex_Gen]

Top 3 HC in the league. The 49ers ownership and front office should be thankful and blessed this guy gives them a chance to win it every year with a bunch of JAGs playing QB. This takes the pressure (or illusion) off of needing to find a legit franchise guy. Shanahan can only carry this team so far though. Until he finds a legit QB, he won't get over the hump no matter how many times he gets back to the SB. Especially knowing the QB on the other side will most likely be one of Mahomes, Jackson, Allen or Burrow. He doesn't need someone elite. Just someone top-tier. He's good enough to make up the difference with his scheme and play-calling. They took a swing at one and missed badly with Trey Lance so he's probably stuck with Purdy for the foreseeable future.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

1 hour ago, stl4life07 said:

I think Kyle can get over the hump and win a Superbowl I just dont think he will with Purdy. Now they could prove me wrong. Purdy showed me some things in these playoffs that proves he can be capable. I just go back to what I said in that this was the best roster the Niners had, the NFC was weaker, and the Chiefs werent as strong as we've seen bc they struggled to score. Its about opportunities and cashing in. The Niners will no doubt continue to be in the mix but they need to capitalize bc the landscape in the NFL is forever changing even with the Niners. They wont stay the same team that was considered the best team/roster in the NFL throughout the season. Other teams will get significantly better and the Niners will get worse even the slightest. Injuries happen and we know the Niners arent typically the healthiest of teams. This season was the healthiest Ive ever seen the Niners. Like those are the breaks a team need to win a title.

As for Purdy the fear is that many think he will get significantly better which it could be the case but I think he will get better but not by much. His ceiling isnt as high but he can definitely fall off a cliff. See Kaepernick. Kaepernick when he first started for the Niners under Harbaugh and OC Roman he lit up the league. There were people saying he was the best QB in the league at the time and I think one ex QB who was an analyst even said he was a future HOF'er. He had the Niners in the Superbowl and can close to winning. The second Harbaugh and Roman left Kaepernick went down fast. He had a horrible record and his play fall off too. Now I do think as long as Purdy has nice weapons around him, a solid OL, and Kyle he shouldnt fall off a cliff but again things change so fast in this league you have to capitalize while you can rather than saying there is always next season thinking things will still stay relatively the same.

It doesn't matter who the quarterback in a Super Bowl is if the quarterback is under pressure around 50% of the time, and the offensive line does a hideous job in pass protection. This even happened to the great Patrick Mahomes. You keep focusing on QB throughout this dialogue, when it's been proven that it wasn't the problem in this SB run, and hasn't been a problem the last season, and a half. Purdy's floor in that time is NFC title game. And we know what happened in last year's contest against the Eagles. Yes the roster is strong, but the experience factor with Purdy has been so little, yet he's looked quite remarkable considering no training camp yet, and having come back from a gruesome injury. QB for the foreseeable future is the least of Kyle's problems, and it doesn't even appear to be a problem anymore. 

Edited February 18 by TecmoSuperJoe

[Herodreamer79]

8 minutes ago, Nex_Gen said:

Shanahan can only carry this team so far though. Until he finds a legit QB, he won't get over the hump no matter how many times he gets back to the SB.

This is totally false. once the superbowl got tied- Purdy left the field with the lead on every subsequent drive thereafter. he forced Patrick Mahomes, the greatest QB on the planet,  to go on 4 straight scoring drives to keep up.

it took the greatest QB in the league 10 minutes into OT to finally vanquish the Purdy-led 49ers. 

and that is with the greatest coaching staff in the league and the best defense in the playoffs backing him. 49ers had like 6 chances to win this game and the chiefs just answered every time. 

Purdy is plenty good enough. the 49ers would have beaten any other team that night.

Edited February 18 by Herodreamer79

[Herodreamer79]

The worst thing you can say about Brock Purdy right now is that he isn't Patrick Mahomes 

Edited February 18 by Herodreamer79

[Soko]

2 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

Back in the days when Billick won with Dilfer and Gruden won with Johnson the league was more driven by a strong run game and strong defense. So you could get away with here and there with not the best QB play. As long as your QB didnt screw things up and you had a strong defense, strong running game, and a really good to great special teams and was well coached you could cover not having the best QB on the field up.

The Bucs had a good run game? 

2 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

Its hard to hide your QB in this day and age bc typically the best ones win especially with how great offensive minds are and the relaxed rules on offense. 

The relaxed rules and offensive innovation make it easier on QBs than ever. This has the opposite effect that you’re saying it does. The philosophical drift from the run game supports your argument, but not the rules or the new school offenses.

[Nex_Gen]

30 minutes ago, Herodreamer79 said:

49ers had like 6 chances to win this game and the chiefs just answered every time. 

Exactly. If we're going to nitpick, Purdy had plenty of chances to put the game away and didn't. Like when Mahomes gifted them the INT at the beginning of the 3rd quarter. They literally got the ball at midfield and did nothing with it. Or if Purdy was any better, they would have scored a TD on the first OT drive. He wasn't the reason they lost, but he wasn't going to the be the reason they won. Let's not forget the 49ers defense played just about as well as they could have. Mahomes just overcame it because he's Mahomes. In the Super Bowl when it matters most, your QB needs to be the reason you won.

 

30 minutes ago, Herodreamer79 said:

the 49ers would have beaten any other team that night

Doubt it. Ravens and Bengals already proved so and it wasn't even close. You could argue Mahomes wasn't even on his A-game this SB, yet he he still pulled it out at the end. That is what it's going to take to get over the hump since that is what you're going up against.

Edited February 18 by Nex_Gen

[stl4life07]

42 minutes ago, Soko said:

The Bucs had a good run game? 

The relaxed rules and offensive innovation make it easier on QBs than ever. This has the opposite effect that you’re saying it does. The philosophical drift from the run game supports your argument, but not the rules or the new school offenses.

The top tier QBs like a Mahomes and Lamar really take advantage of the rules. I hear people already complaining about how the Chiefs never got a hold call in any Superbowl game. You don’t think that helps Mahomes? And the Superbowl he lost it took for his entire OL to be hurt. But the relaxed rules helps QB why do you think someone like Sam Howell can look decent early in the season? But since he isn’t at top tier QB it didn’t help him enough. 
 

We will see though if Purdy can take that big jump moving forward. I just feel like we hear this all the time where a player starts off really good and people just assume that player will get better and better. Sometimes that’s the case but other times it’s not. Dak is a perfect example. He had a tremendous rookie season. How much better Dak has gotten from his rookie season till now? And in his rookie season he had the best roster when you talking about an elite OL, Zeke at his best but the talent started to get worse around Dak and he never got significantly better from his rookie season. Now this season his roster was really good and Dak had an MVP caliber season but his tendencies showed up which was turning the ball over in big moments and ultimately the Cowboys losing. So it’s going to be interesting to see how Purdy continues to grow and hopefully he proves me wrong and get significantly better.

[stl4life07]

1 hour ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

It doesn't matter who the quarterback in a Super Bowl is if the quarterback is under pressure around 50% of the time, and the offensive line does a hideous job in pass protection. This even happened to the great Patrick Mahomes. You keep focusing on QB throughout this dialogue, when it's been proven that it wasn't the problem in this SB run, and hasn't been a problem the last season, and a half. Purdy's floor in that time is NFC title game. And we know what happened in last year's contest against the Eagles. Yes the roster is strong, but the experience factor with Purdy has been so little, yet he's looked quite remarkable considering no training camp yet, and having come back from a gruesome injury. QB for the foreseeable future is the least of Kyle's problems, and it doesn't even appear to be a problem anymore. 

You are right about the pressure. Again Purdy showed in the playoffs he can make plays when trailing to help the team win from behind. But I’m not stuck on the QB position bc I have valid points. He didn’t make a big time throw to Aiyuk in the NFCCG it was a lucky bounce off the defenders helmet that was caught by Aiyuk. He didn’t get the ball in the endzone in OT and Mahomes did. That was the difference. So two things can be true. He showed he isn’t a liability (which I’ve always said he was fine) but when going up against top level QBs in Mahomes, Burrow, Lamar that he can’t make one more play than them to win.