UDFA

[Sllim Pickens]

19 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said:

How much upside does Nate Sudfeld have at this point in his career?  Unless he is the 2nd coming of Jim Plunkett, not a whole lot.

A lot more than all but maybe 5 D2 QBs in NFL history.  Unless Peterson is the second coming of Tony Romo, he will be cut before training camp.  I don't like Sudfeld and would love to have a guy with more upside there but usually third QBs are for guys who know systems and coaches can count on if they need to.  Very rarely ever does that become a UDFA especially one from a D2 school.  Its a fun story but there is literally zero support for thinking he can beat out Sudfeld at this point.  Sudfeld has starting NFL experience which means multiple teams have seen enough in him to keep him around.  

[Just Want A Title]

44 minutes ago, detfan782004 said:

It's all outlandish. Just a splurge of stats really. There is a kid locally that plays at the community college level that blows all these stats away but he's not NFL level.

 

Not only did all the teams not draft this kid. But then they all passed him up in UDFA. 
 

Itll be fun to hear his training camp or rookie camp battles before we read he was cut 

It is no more outlandish than pushing an uninformed opinion off as fact and telling folks that you can predict the future.  Miss Cleo and the Psychic Hotline shut down a while ago and I suspect that your ability to predict the future isn't much better.  By the way, our non-selections of Devon Achane and Bryan Bresee--still working out pretty well for the Lions.

[Just Want A Title]

14 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

A lot more than all but maybe 5 D2 QBs in NFL history.  Unless Peterson is the second coming of Tony Romo, he will be cut before training camp.  I don't like Sudfeld and would love to have a guy with more upside there but usually third QBs are for guys who know systems and coaches can count on if they need to.  Very rarely ever does that become a UDFA especially one from a D2 school.  Its a fun story but there is literally zero support for thinking he can beat out Sudfeld at this point.  Sudfeld has starting NFL experience which means multiple teams have seen enough in him to keep him around.  

He doesn't have to beat out Nate Sudfeld.  Hendon Hooker has to beat out Nate Sudfeld for the #2QB role.  Keeping a guy who was drafted in 2016 in a developmental QB role doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Sllim Pickens]

1 minute ago, Just Want A Title said:

He doesn't have to beat out Nate Sudfeld.  Hendon Hooker has to beat out Nate Sudfeld for the #2QB role.  Keeping a guy who was drafted in 2016 in a developmental QB role doesn't make a lot of sense.

But the developmental QB is Hooker.  The other QB spot is for a vet that the team would be ok sending out there for a game or two if Hooker isn't ready.  We don't need two developmental QBs and if we did, we would have drafted one but we didn't.  We literally just signed a guy a week after the draft after nobody else signed him even for their rookie camps and I will guarantee that is all he is here for.   

[Karnage84]

9 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said:

He doesn't have to beat out Nate Sudfeld.  Hendon Hooker has to beat out Nate Sudfeld for the #2QB role.  Keeping a guy who was drafted in 2016 in a developmental QB role doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

6 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

But the developmental QB is Hooker.  The other QB spot is for a vet that the team would be ok sending out there for a game or two if Hooker isn't ready.  We don't need two developmental QBs and if we did, we would have drafted one but we didn't.  We literally just signed a guy a week after the draft after nobody else signed him even for their rookie camps and I will guarantee that is all he is here for.   

Hooker is the developmental guy they hope can either be a high end back-up or even possibly a starting option/trade piece. Sudfeld is someone they can trust to put out there in a pinch to run the offense but he's really more like another set of eyes in the QB room. He's a "not quite as talented on the field" Josh McCown. 

If Peterson absolutely blows them away, maybe he gets a chance to sit on the PS. It's highly unlikely to be the case.

Goff is their guy. Hooker is the guy-in-waiting. Depending on things, they could eventually bring in someone else as a developmental piece. Sudfeld has been in the league for going on 8 years (same draft class as Goff but 2 years older) and he's started 6 games. 

[Just Want A Title]

27 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

 

Hooker is the developmental guy they hope can either be a high end back-up or even possibly a starting option/trade piece. Sudfeld is someone they can trust to put out there in a pinch to run the offense but he's really more like another set of eyes in the QB room. He's a "not quite as talented on the field" Josh McCown. 

If Peterson absolutely blows them away, maybe he gets a chance to sit on the PS. It's highly unlikely to be the case.

Goff is their guy. Hooker is the guy-in-waiting. Depending on things, they could eventually bring in someone else as a developmental piece. Sudfeld has been in the league for going on 8 years (same draft class as Goff but 2 years older) and he's started 6 games. 

You are kind of making my point for me.  The only QB slot we have open right now is that last developmental QB.  Nate Sudfeld clearly isn't that player.  I don't know what will happen during with Cade Peterson but he has the tools to grab that #3QB role.  He makes more sense than Nate Sudfeld and has a leg up on Theo Day because of his mobility and better passing efficiency.  His situation with the Lions seems pretty similar to when the Cowboys brought Cooper Rush onto their team.  Could he develop into a Cooper Rush-type of player?  Maybe.  As I said, all the tools are there to make that happen.

Edited May 9 by Just Want A Title

[detfan782004]

1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

A lot more than all but maybe 5 D2 QBs in NFL history.  Unless Peterson is the second coming of Tony Romo, he will be cut before training camp.  I don't like Sudfeld and would love to have a guy with more upside there but usually third QBs are for guys who know systems and coaches can count on if they need to.  Very rarely ever does that become a UDFA especially one from a D2 school.  Its a fun story but there is literally zero support for thinking he can beat out Sudfeld at this point.  Sudfeld has starting NFL experience which means multiple teams have seen enough in him to keep him around.  

No doubt.  Just the amount of reps and game time stuff Sudfeld has watched from sideline adds far more value than a couple D2 kids who everyone passed up over and over and over.   Sudfeld adds a nice veteran presence that frankly is underrated.  They already have one project QB on roster.

[LionArkie]

I miss sig bets. That kept things honest, lol.

[Sllim Pickens]

2 hours ago, Just Want A Title said:

You are kind of making my point for me.  The only QB slot we have open right now is that last developmental QB.  Nate Sudfeld clearly isn't that player.  I don't know what will happen during with Cade Peterson but he has the tools to grab that #3QB role.  He makes more sense than Nate Sudfeld and has a leg up on Theo Day because of his mobility and better passing efficiency.  His situation with the Lions seems pretty similar to when the Cowboys brought Cooper Rush onto their team.  Could he develop into a Cooper Rush-type of player?  Maybe.  As I said, all the tools are there to make that happen.

But the tools aren't there, or he would have been drafted or at least a priority UDFA.  He doesn't have a leg up on Theo Day because Day has played better competition at MSU and Northern Iowa.  He doesn't have a leg up on Day because he is shorter and lighter.  He is more mobile, that is the only area he may have a leg up but who knows if thats on the priority list for our coaches.  Neither Day or Peterson are likely to even make the PS.  Both would be considered long shots and would need to have an excellent summer to get that far.  You keep using stats for him at GVSU however the top 3 passers in GVSU history by yards and TD's (Bart Williams, Curt Anes and Cullen Finnerty) never saw a snap in the NFL.  Williams is like 3rd all time in DII passing TDs and 13th in all time yards and was considered a draft diamond for the 2019 draft and went undrafted and never signed as an UDFA.  Not even sure he got an invite to rookie camps like Peterson so it shows that just because you are good at DII doesn't make you an NFL player. 

Just because Sudfeld isn't a great 3rd QB doesn't mean anybody who has ever played QB is a better option than him.  Having another vet in the QB room and able to help Hooker when Goff is with the 1's is important.  Having another QB who has game experience to help with calls and reads in the film room is more helpful to the Lions than a QB who likely will never throw a pass in the league.  

Nowhere in @Karnage84's post did he say the 3rd QB spot is for a developmental QB, thats just what you wanted to read.  What he said is that Hooker is the developmental QB and Sudfeld is more of an extra coach/set of eyes in the QB room. Which is accurate.  Sudfeld got $300k guaranteed in his contract.  Peterson didn't even get a contract, he got an invite to rookie camp.  You are projecting your desires for a better third QB onto Petterson and creating unfair expectations when the reality is that although he does have a chance to make the roster, the odds of it happening are almost zero.  

[detfan782004]

2 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

But the tools aren't there, or he would have been drafted or at least a priority UDFA.  He doesn't have a leg up on Theo Day because Day has played better competition at MSU and Northern Iowa.  He doesn't have a leg up on Day because he is shorter and lighter.  He is more mobile, that is the only area he may have a leg up but who knows if thats on the priority list for our coaches.  Neither Day or Peterson are likely to even make the PS.  Both would be considered long shots and would need to have an excellent summer to get that far. 

Just because Sudfeld isn't a great 3rd QB doesn't mean anybody who has ever played QB is a better option than him.  Having another vet in the QB room and able to help Hooker when Goff is with the 1's is important.  Having another QB who has game experience to help with calls and reads in the film room is more helpful to the Lions than a QB who likely will never throw a pass in the league.  

Nowhere in @Karnage84's post did he say the 3rd QB spot is for a developmental QB, thats just what you wanted to read.  What he said is that Hooker is the developmental QB and Sudfeld is more of an extra coach/set of eyes in the QB room. Which is accurate.  Sudfeld got $300k guaranteed in his contract.  Peterson didn't even get a contract, he got an invite to rookie camp.  You are projecting your desires for a better third QB onto Patterson and creating unfair expectations when the reality is that although he does have a chance to make the roster, the odds of it happening are almost zero.  

Good post. Yes Sudfeld is QB2 right now. 

[Just Want A Title]

1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

But the tools aren't there, or he would have been drafted or at least a priority UDFA.  He doesn't have a leg up on Theo Day because Day has played better competition at MSU and Northern Iowa.  He doesn't have a leg up on Day because he is shorter and lighter.  He is more mobile, that is the only area he may have a leg up but who knows if thats on the priority list for our coaches.  Neither Day or Peterson are likely to even make the PS.  Both would be considered long shots and would need to have an excellent summer to get that far.  You keep using stats for him at GVSU however the top 3 passers in GVSU history by yards and TD's (Bart Williams, Curt Anes and Cullen Finnerty) never saw a snap in the NFL.  Williams is like 3rd all time in DII passing TDs and 13th in all time yards and was considered a draft diamond for the 2019 draft and went undrafted and never signed as an UDFA.  Not even sure he got an invite to rookie camps like Peterson so it shows that just because you are good at DII doesn't make you an NFL player. 

Just because Sudfeld isn't a great 3rd QB doesn't mean anybody who has ever played QB is a better option than him.  Having another vet in the QB room and able to help Hooker when Goff is with the 1's is important.  Having another QB who has game experience to help with calls and reads in the film room is more helpful to the Lions than a QB who likely will never throw a pass in the league.  

Nowhere in @Karnage84's post did he say the 3rd QB spot is for a developmental QB, thats just what you wanted to read.  What he said is that Hooker is the developmental QB and Sudfeld is more of an extra coach/set of eyes in the QB room. Which is accurate.  Sudfeld got $300k guaranteed in his contract.  Peterson didn't even get a contract, he got an invite to rookie camp.  You are projecting your desires for a better third QB onto Petterson and creating unfair expectations when the reality is that although he does have a chance to make the roster, the odds of it happening are almost zero.  

I don't know when a player like Hendon Hooker was classified as a "project".  He was drafted with the idea if his floor being QB2 and to take on the starter role if Jared Goff faltered.  You may recall he was, prior to his injury, favored to win the Heisman and a 1st-round draft projection.  You also may want to re-visit his college stats:

	Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
*2018	Virginia Tech	ACC	FR	QB	3	0	0		0			0	0
*2019	Virginia Tech	ACC	SO	QB	11	99	162	61.1	1555	9.6	10.6	13	2	165.8
2020	Virginia Tech	ACC	JR	QB	8	98	150	65.3	1339	8.9	8.6	9	5	153.5
*2021	Tennessee	SEC	SR	QB	13	206	302	68.2	2945	9.8	11.4	31	3	182.0
*2022	Tennessee	SEC	SR		11	229	329	69.6	3135	9.5	10.9	27	2	175

  What do you think QB3 is for if QB1 and QB2 are more or less set?  Do they need another veteran QB?  Nope.  Using that QB3 slot for a developmental QB is actually pretty common even of the player is on the PS.  

I don't know what you are looking at with respect to Cade Peterson's tools.  He checks in at 6'4" and 220Lbs as I understand it.  That is neither short or skinny.  As we have seen before, where a player starts doesn't matter if he has the tools.  He has the physical build to play in the NFL.  He put up pretty good production and was 33-4 as a starter.  So he played at GVSU.  This is why he is the developmental QB/QB3.  Cooper Rush played at Central Michigan and is a solid QB2.  Cade Peterson is pretty comparable.  You know what non-QB played at GVSU--Matthew Judon.  It doesn't matter where you are from or even if you aren't drafted.  What matters is if the player can earn a spot on the roster.  There is nothing to say that Cade Peterson can't do it and a fair amount of stuff that says he could grab the #3QB role.  Unless Brad Holmes, MCDC and Ben Johsnon are in this form there probably isn't anyone who can safely predict what Cade Peterson can or can't do.

 

[Sllim Pickens]

Just now, Just Want A Title said:

I don't know when a player like Hendon Hooker was classified as a "project".  He was drafted with the idea if his floor being QB2 and to take on the starter role if Jared Goff faltered.  You may recall he was, prior to his injury, favored to win the Heisman and a 1st-round draft projection.  You also may want to re-visit his college stats:

	Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
*2018	Virginia Tech	ACC	FR	QB	3	0	0		0			0	0
*2019	Virginia Tech	ACC	SO	QB	11	99	162	61.1	1555	9.6	10.6	13	2	165.8
2020	Virginia Tech	ACC	JR	QB	8	98	150	65.3	1339	8.9	8.6	9	5	153.5
*2021	Tennessee	SEC	SR	QB	13	206	302	68.2	2945	9.8	11.4	31	3	182.0
*2022	Tennessee	SEC	SR		11	229	329	69.6	3135	9.5	10.9	27	2	175

  What do you think QB3 is for if QB1 and QB2 are more or less set?  Do they need another veteran QB?  Nope.  Using that QB3 slot for a developmental QB is actually pretty common even of the player is on the PS.  

I don't know what you are looking at with respect to Cade Peterson's tools.  He checks in at 6'4" and 220Lbs as I understand it.  That is neither short or skinny.  As we have seen before, where a player starts doesn't matter if he has the tools.  He has the physical build to play in the NFL.  He put up pretty good production and was 33-4 as a starter.  So he played at GVSU.  This is why he is the developmental QB/QB3.  Cooper Rush played at Central Michigan and is a solid QB2.  Cade Peterson is pretty comparable.  You know what non-QB played at GVSU--Matthew Judon.  It doesn't matter where you are from or even if you aren't drafted.  What matters is if the player can earn a spot on the roster.  There is nothing to say that Cade Peterson can't do it and a fair amount of stuff that says he could grab the #3QB role.  Unless Brad Holmes, MCDC and Ben Johsnon are in this form there probably isn't anyone who can safely predict what Cade Peterson can or can't do.

 

A project is drafting a QB when you don't need a starter because you see upside.  Until he has thrown a pass in a game, he is a project and has a lot of work to do to be an NFL backup.  Again you using college stats is comical because there are plenty of prolific college QBs who don't make it in the NFL.  Thats why only like a third of first round QBs work out.  Mac Jones and Justin Fields had great college stats too and look where they are. Yes he is tall, Day is taller.  Yes he is a solid weight, Day is more solid.  Yes he has numbers but he also only averaged 150 yards a game.  Against D2 defenses.  

QB3 is for whatever the coaches want to use it for.  I would say if we had Bridgewater as a backup then you would want QB3 to be a project.  If your backup is last years project, you probably would want a vet who has some experience and can help the young #2 QB who has not even been through a camp.  Not every situation is the same and given we are competing to win a championship, having an UDFA rookie 3rd string from a D2 school isn't all that safe.  Having one who can step in if Hooker isn't ready or is really bad is more important.  Unless Peterson comes out and dominates rookie camp, training camp and the pre-season, I would rather have Sudfeld as a backup even knowing he is bad because his bad as of now is significantly better than what Peterson is.  

As for anyone safely predicting what Cade Peterson can or can't do, I would safely bet as much money as I could that he won't make the roster.  The history of the NFL, the history of this staff, and the history of guys who are not even signed as UDFA (Peterson is just a rookie camp invite) is pretty easy to predict.  Sure you may miss here and there because scouts missed someone but again, the odds are almost zero.  

I fully understand that Peterson could blow up and make the roster.  I also am a realist and know it is very unlikely.  You keep thinking he is a sure thing to beat out Sudfeld for no reason other than he is a local guy.  I get he is a heartwarming story and it would be great to find a QB that is cheap can eventually take over as a starter but there is no history that would make me at all think that is going to happen.  If it does then great, but don't hold your breath. 

And I am done with this discussion now.  This might be the dumbest argument debate I have ever had to be honest.  Usually the UDFA hype doesn't start until after a player shows out at training camp.  I don't think I have ever heard a fan hype up a rookie camp invite more than any other pick.  

[Just Want A Title]

2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

But the tools aren't there, or he would have been drafted or at least a priority UDFA.  He doesn't have a leg up on Theo Day because Day has played better competition at MSU and Northern Iowa.  He doesn't have a leg up on Day because he is shorter and lighter.  He is more mobile, that is the only area he may have a leg up but who knows if thats on the priority list for our coaches.  Neither Day or Peterson are likely to even make the PS.  Both would be considered long shots and would need to have an excellent summer to get that far.  You keep using stats for him at GVSU however the top 3 passers in GVSU history by yards and TD's (Bart Williams, Curt Anes and Cullen Finnerty) never saw a snap in the NFL.  Williams is like 3rd all time in DII passing TDs and 13th in all time yards and was considered a draft diamond for the 2019 draft and went undrafted and never signed as an UDFA.  Not even sure he got an invite to rookie camps like Peterson so it shows that just because you are good at DII doesn't make you an NFL player. 

Just because Sudfeld isn't a great 3rd QB doesn't mean anybody who has ever played QB is a better option than him.  Having another vet in the QB room and able to help Hooker when Goff is with the 1's is important.  Having another QB who has game experience to help with calls and reads in the film room is more helpful to the Lions than a QB who likely will never throw a pass in the league.  

Nowhere in @Karnage84's post did he say the 3rd QB spot is for a developmental QB, thats just what you wanted to read.  What he said is that Hooker is the developmental QB and Sudfeld is more of an extra coach/set of eyes in the QB room. Which is accurate.  Sudfeld got $300k guaranteed in his contract.  Peterson didn't even get a contract, he got an invite to rookie camp.  You are projecting your desires for a better third QB onto Petterson and creating unfair expectations when the reality is that although he does have a chance to make the roster, the odds of it happening are almost zero.  

There was another QB that was taken in the 7th round as a development QB that might have heard about--Brock Purdy

[Sllim Pickens]

34 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said:

There was another QB that was taken in the 7th round as a development QB that might have heard about--Brock Purdy

Yeah, and Tom Brady was a 6th round pick.  The exceptions don't change the rule.  If your team drafted a QB as Mr. Irrelevant and planned on going into the season with him as their QB you would think that team is nuts.  Not to mention he was at least drafted.  As I have said, scouts get it wrong and occasionally and miss guys who are actually good.  But for teams to not draft a guy and not even offer a real UDFA contract, I am not sure you can find an example where one of these guys makes the roster.  Even Bagnet was a real UDFA.  

[detfan782004]

These are the UDFA I see making roster. Rest are fodder at best 

 

Center- Eguakun

WR- Williams

Maybe:

Edge- Ukwu

K- Turner- Michigan