dll2000 Posted August 15 Share Posted August 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted August 15 Share Posted August 15 Hoge made same point I did in recent podcast. If average return is to 29 under new rules and touchback is to 30, why risk a kick off return? Unless they change something it is going to be all touch backs fairly soon. As soon as special teams coaches come to same conclusion. You will have to move touchback rule to 35 or 40 to get people to risk a return. Or change something else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted August 15 Share Posted August 15 58 minutes ago, dll2000 said: Hoge made same point I did in recent podcast. If average return is to 29 under new rules and touchback is to 30, why risk a kick off return? Unless they change something it is going to be all touch backs fairly soon. As soon as special teams coaches come to same conclusion. You will have to move touchback rule to 35 or 40 to get people to risk a return. Or change something else. This is a fascinating detail of the coming season. Right now it looks like a high return rate but with a negative (vs touchback) net. The rules seem so open though, so I would bet that no special teams coordinator is showing their true in-season looks or strategy. I still think the rule has potential to open up some good returns and highlight plays. I think they're going to let it ride for the season, and I would bet there are loads of wacky things ST guys are going to try. Should be interesting at the very least. In the end, you might be right and they need to penalize touchbacks further. You're always such a top-down institutional control guy so that all follows. Should be cool to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 5 hours ago, dll2000 said: Hoge made same point I did in recent podcast. If average return is to 29 under new rules and touchback is to 30, why risk a kick off return? Unless they change something it is going to be all touch backs fairly soon. As soon as special teams coaches come to same conclusion. You will have to move touchback rule to 35 or 40 to get people to risk a return. Or change something else. We’re still looking at a pretty small sample size. It’s been 1 week plus 2 games so far, and also low scoring games by comparison to most regular season NFL games (almost always the case in preseason). Adjustments are going to be made on both sides of this. Even a few yards is a big deal though. I remember seeing something last year about the difference between scoring drives starting at the 20 vs. 25, or maybe the 25 vs. 30, where the frequency of a scoring drive with the 5 yard difference was several percentage points higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docknstein11 Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 https://x.com/fox19jeremy/status/1824231327475847191?s=46 Bengals reporter perspective on joint practice today. The hype is real. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 “I’m guessing there are no Bears fans listening.” LOL. You don’t know Bears fans. A different team beat reporter complimenting Bears? Bizzaro world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 13 hours ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said: This is a fascinating detail of the coming season. Right now it looks like a high return rate but with a negative (vs touchback) net. The rules seem so open though, so I would bet that no special teams coordinator is showing their true in-season looks or strategy. I still think the rule has potential to open up some good returns and highlight plays. I think they're going to let it ride for the season, and I would bet there are loads of wacky things ST guys are going to try. Should be interesting at the very least. In the end, you might be right and they need to penalize touchbacks further. You're always such a top-down institutional control guy so that all follows. Should be cool to follow. But that is the point. On KO side they are willing to kick because who cares it’s preseason and we want to see what happens, On KR side they aren’t showing their blocking schemes, tricks or putting star athletes back there because it is preseason and even then they are still nearly making the 30. As it stand once regular season starts without change you would be a fool to not kick to endzone and take the touchback. If you give the other team a big return or worse 6 pts. by deciding to kick to them you deserve derision. There is no way to pin them deep on the KO. It is all risk and no reward. In little league almost everyone onside kicks always. Why? Because young kids struggle to tackle in open field and the very best athlete on either team is very difficult to tackle in open field because he is usually a lot faster than everyone else. You are facing a high risk of giving up 6 pts. by kicking deep. So no one does it except stupid people or a team with overwhelming talent who doesn’t care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 1 minute ago, dll2000 said: But that is the point. On KO side they are willing to kick because who cares it’s preseason and we want to see what happens, On KR side they aren’t showing their blocking schemes, tricks or putting star athletes back there because it is preseason and even then they are still nearly making the 30. As it stand once regular season starts without change you would be a fool to not kick to endzone and take the touchback. If you give the other team a big return or worse 6 pts. by deciding to kick to them you deserve derision. There is no way to pin them deep on the KO. It is all risk and no reward. In little league almost everyone onside kicks always. Why? Because young kids struggle to tackle in open field and the very best athlete on either team is very difficult to tackle in open field because he is usually a lot faster than everyone else. You are facing a high risk of giving up 6 pts. by kicking deep. So no one does it except stupid people or a team with overwhelming talent who doesn’t care. I think the way to go for coverage (and I haven’t really seen this) is going to be a high kick that lands between the 15 and 20, angled toward the sideline. Limit the time the blocking scheme has to set up anything, cut the field down for your coverage team, limit the returner’s space to get to full speed and dictate which of 2 returners is most likely to field the ball. There’s still a return opportunity there, but it’s more similar to a punt return. Also, if there’s any problem with the actual catching of the ball it puts the coverage team that much closer to an outright recovery and possession in plus territory than a kick to the goal line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 (edited) 8 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: I think the way to go for coverage (and I haven’t really seen this) is going to be a high kick that lands between the 15 and 20, angled toward the sideline. Limit the time the blocking scheme has to set up anything, cut the field down for your coverage team, limit the returner’s space to get to full speed and dictate which of 2 returners is most likely to field the ball. There’s still a return opportunity there, but it’s more similar to a punt return. Also, if there’s any problem with the actual catching of the ball it puts the coverage team that much closer to an outright recovery and possession in plus territory than a kick to the goal line. Yes but high kicks don’t mean anything because you can’t go early. Your only chance of pinning them deep really is a muff or a penalty. Maybe if you get it in corner you stop them around 20 and save ten yards. Edited August 16 by dll2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 Seriously. I love the little things. Carrying out a fake is important to success. It is even though many QBs think they are too cool for it. Peyton Manning thrived on it with Edgerin James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty21 Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 1 hour ago, dll2000 said: Seriously. I love the little things. Carrying out a fake is important to success. It is even though many QBs think they are too cool for it. Peyton Manning thrived on it with Edgerin James. Some people are gonna have to walk back the not being able to qb under center narrative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 7 hours ago, dll2000 said: Yes but high kicks don’t mean anything because you can’t go early. Your only chance of pinning them deep really is a muff or a penalty. Maybe if you get it in corner you stop them around 20 and save ten yards. My thought with kicking high was more so the returner isn’t catching the ball already on the run to get a full head of steam. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 6 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: My thought with kicking high was more so the returner isn’t catching the ball already on the run to get a full head of steam. We'll see. A pattern should settle in on week 2 of reg season after people show their hands. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty21 Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 2 hours ago, dll2000 said: We'll see. A pattern should settle in on week 2 of reg season after people show their hands. Just watch it be so busted someone breaks Devin’s career return td record in a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 1 hour ago, Ty21 said: Just watch it be so busted someone breaks Devin’s career return td record in a year. The XFL used this KOR format last year and only had 1 total KO return TD in 10 weeks. I couldn’t find anything about the frequency of touchbacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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