SodeeWater_Cheezburger Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 I'm having a discussion with someone online about these two. Knowing what you know now about both of their careers and character, and you had the chance to draft either TO or JJ, who would you pick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 I go with TO because he is arguably the 2nd best WR of all time (I prefer him over Moss, but I recognize most think Moss is 2nd). Maybe JJ gets there but as great and polished as he is, TO with the ball is more of a game breaker. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 It’s disrespectful to TO. For as good as JJ anything can happen see JJ Watt. To has been disrespected enough, not to mention he was a late round draft pick out of a small school in TN. To was a beast. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdonnelly21 Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 T.O is a top 2/3 WR of all time. Even his prime years are better. Imagine if TO played in todays pass happy ERA my GAWDDD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 I'd take JJ pretty easily. I wouldn't even question it. Compare the first 4 years of their careers; TO- 3307 yards, 30 TDs, 9.075 y/tgt JJ- 5899 yards, 30 TDs, 10.35 y/tgt This is without mentioning the high number of drops that TO consistently had throughout his career. This is also without mentioning his character or how many teams he forced his way off of. These days I love me some TO. But he was a complete headache as a "star" player. This question is pretty easy. I'll take the better player with a better head on his shoulders. JJ isn't the same athlete as TO but he's just more talented and a better overall player. And no, TO is not the 2nd best receiver all time. He has the bulk stats to argue for it, but anyone that puts TO over Moss is just... wrong IMO. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 1 hour ago, nagahide13 said: This is also without mentioning his character or how many teams he forced his way off of. These days I love me some TO. But he was a complete headache as a "star" player. And no, TO is not the 2nd best receiver all time. He has the bulk stats to argue for it, but anyone that puts TO over Moss is just... wrong IMO. Why is it the TO gets dinged for being a "problem" player when, on the field, he was always going 100%, but Moss, who actively dogged it on the field and didn't try at times, is revered? I would rather have a player who could be relied on when he's on the field than a guy who might jog his routes depending on his mood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 13 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: Why is it the TO gets dinged for being a "problem" player when, on the field, he was always going 100%, Because in the context of the question "Who would you draft?" I'm looking at my ability to sign the player to a second and third contract. I'd rather have Justin Jefferson for 10 years than TO for 8 and then have to play against him for 7. To your other point TO was a bit of a problem everywhere, whereas Moss was only a problem in Oakland. Moss was a better player that admittedly completely dogged it for 1 team. If you're that one team, that stinks. If you're not, I don't see what the issue is. He's still a better player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank4Drake Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 I’ll take Jefferson. I feel like the WR’s Ranked 2-5 always get wildly overrated. Jerry Rice is by far the goat and I’ll take prime Jerry over anyone. But I’ll also take prime AB and prime Jefferson over prime anyone not named Jerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Voted for TO…accidentally. I’d go JJ here. TO is one of the all-timers, but I skip 95% of the headache by “downgrading” to JJ, who’s had a better start. I’ll bet on JJ’s long term potential to avoid TO eating my locker room alive, going to a rival, and then leaving me to pickup the pieces. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 15 hours ago, nagahide13 said: Because in the context of the question "Who would you draft?" I'm looking at my ability to sign the player to a second and third contract. I'd rather have Justin Jefferson for 10 years than TO for 8 and then have to play against him for 7. To your other point TO was a bit of a problem everywhere, whereas Moss was only a problem in Oakland. Moss was a better player that admittedly completely dogged it for 1 team. If you're that one team, that stinks. If you're not, I don't see what the issue is. He's still a better player. Justin Jefferson was a holdout just like TO. The difference is, in 2005 if a WR held out, they got suspended, smeared by the media, and kicked off the team. If you holdout today, the team coddles you and lets you stand on the sideline for OTAs or training camp. Do you think Justin Jefferson would have played for $6 million a season in his prime like the Eagles expected TO to do? After coming back from a broken leg and tearing it up in the Super Bowl? He probably would have held out just like TO. It's just a much friendlier environment today for that kind of behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 10 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: Justin Jefferson was a holdout just like TO. The difference is, in 2005 if a WR held out, they got suspended, smeared by the media, and kicked off the team. If you holdout today, the team coddles you and lets you stand on the sideline for OTAs or training camp. Do you think Justin Jefferson would have played for $6 million a season in his prime like the Eagles expected TO to do? After coming back from a broken leg and tearing it up in the Super Bowl? He probably would have held out just like TO. It's just a much friendlier environment today for that kind of behavior. When discussing keeping TO around for the long term, I think it has a lot less to do with whether he’d holdout for new/more money, and a lot more to do with his disastrous behavior when it came to team mates and coaches. It’s obviously not a money/play thing people are talking about when it comes to TO. It’s the paper trail of issues including a drug overdose, the Garcia stuff, the McNabb stuff, fist fighting team mates, the Reid stuff, and then the issues with the Cowboys. Three great franchises said no to a HOF receiver, and it had basically nothing to do with his on the field play. That’s bad, not just a holdout for a new deal (which he did one year into a seven year deal IIRC). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 The gap in professionalism is bigger than the gap in talent. Love TO, but in a "who would you draft" scenario JJ is the clear choice imo. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 19 hours ago, nagahide13 said: To your other point TO was a bit of a problem everywhere, whereas Moss was only a problem in Oakland. Moss was a better player that admittedly completely dogged it for 1 team. If you're that one team, that stinks. If you're not, I don't see what the issue is. He's still a better player. 3 hours ago, Soko said: Three great franchises said no to a HOF receiver, and it had basically nothing to do with his on the field play. Three legendary franchises also had no problems shipping off Moss as well (Vikings, Raiders, Patriots) - and then the Vikings ditched him again well in his second stint there. Not sure why this is a black mark against TO and not against Moss. Patriots even traded him midseason when they were in the Super Bowl hunt. Also I call BS on "three great franchises" - the mid-2000s 49ers and the mid-2000s Cowboys were hardly great, regardless of their past. Their management at the time was highly questionable. Quote That’s bad, not just a holdout for a new deal (which he did one year into a seven year deal IIRC). My understanding is that TO did not have leverage when he signed that deal due to years not being voided after a technical snafu by the league/agent. Quote When discussing keeping TO around for the long term, I think it has a lot less to do with whether he’d holdout for new/more money, and a lot more to do with his disastrous behavior when it came to team mates and coaches. It’s obviously not a money/play thing people are talking about when it comes to TO. Wasn't a lot of the disastrous behavior a response to how the front office was treating him (I'm thinking a bout the Eagles specifically here)? I don't recall significant problems in Dallas, Buffalo, and Cincy. Ultimately, Moss was gifted but lazy, and TO had a great work ethic but was insane. Both had interpersonal problems that caused their teams to get rid of them. I don't think you can criticize TO for this but not Moss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 33 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: Three legendary franchises also had no problems shipping off Moss as well (Vikings, Raiders, Patriots) - and then the Vikings ditched him again well in his second stint there. Not sure why this is a black mark against TO and not against Moss. Patriots even traded him midseason when they were in the Super Bowl hunt. Cool. How many franchises did Justin Jefferson blow up? 33 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: Wasn't a lot of the disastrous behavior a response to how the front office was treating him (I'm thinking a bout the Eagles specifically here)? I don't recall significant problems in Dallas, Buffalo, and Cincy. I mean, he threw public shade at McNabb multiple times. Said the team would be better off with Favre. Basically said he was a warrior in the SB, while McNabb was lacking (has since said McNabb was partying the night before and teammates were lying on McNabb’s behalf). Got into a literal fist fight with a team mate. During his holdout, he was doing live interviews in his driveway. Got suspended by Reid (generally considered a player’s coach), then when given a written statement (apology) by his agent, he omitted the apology part. Got suspended/deactivated again, and cut. In Dallas he had issues with Romo. He had issues with Witten. He had issues with Garrett. Believe it was this camp when he had an “accidental” drug overdose. They say Bill didn’t even talk to TO at all, and Jerry, despite loving Owens (surprise surprise) followed the advice of his “many, many” football people and ate a $9M cap hit to cut him. Sure, in his aged 36 and 37 season he was only a media distraction and not a destructive force of nature that he was for most of his career. There’s no way you can remotely equate all of TO’s issues with Justin Jefferson “holding out” by skipping OTAs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 I guess I looked at the question simply. I'd say that the production on field is relatively equal. Both were/are amazing. Then I moved to which was the bigger pain in the neck to manage. That was clearly TO. Voted Jefferson. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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