Rodjahs12 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, HorizontoZenith said: Everyone knows how much I hate first round receivers and I would literally rather our 14th overall pick be a receiver. Anybody that thinks a guard is going to radically change the fortunes of this team is kinda stupid. I'd rather take a second round pass rush prospect 14th overall than Nelson. Everybody points to Martin. What in the **** has Martin don for the Cowboys? Two playoff appearances since he was drafted. A single win. Oh, boy. I'm right with you there on hating first round receivers I just find Ridley to be the exact kind of player this offense needs to get back to being the vertical juggernaut it once was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, ChaRisMa said: I’m completely open to Nelson at G. You can get by with bums at 4th WR when 12 has all day. This would make more sense if we sucked at guard. We haven't sucked at guard. Once. Since Rodgers became the starter. Not once have we sucked at guard, and the most we've invested has been a 3rd round pick. Once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillparsi1 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: Everyone knows how much I hate first round receivers and I would literally rather our 14th overall pick be a receiver. Anybody that thinks a guard is going to radically change the fortunes of this team is kinda stupid. I'd rather take a second round pass rush prospect 14th overall than Nelson. Everybody points to Martin. What in the **** has Martin don for the Cowboys? Two playoff appearances since he was drafted. A single win. Oh, boy. By this logic Joe Thomas was a terrible pick for the Browns. Outside of QB there aren't many positions that DO radically change the fortunes of your team. Rome wasn't build in a day. And fortunately we're in a position where we are taking an already good team and trying to make it more elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, chillparsi1 said: By this logic Joe Thomas was a terrible pick for the Browns. No, it's actually not the same logic because left tackles are literally twice as important as guards in the NFL that we are currently watching since it's 2018, not 1998. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollino14 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Listen gentlemen, nobody in the NFL is going to say “ look at Mike Iupati” when evaluating Quenton Nelson. They’re gonna evaluate him based on his film and test scores and they’ll rank him accordingly. Talent wise is he a top 15 pick, idk I’m not well versed in the class. But saying he’s not because he’s a guard is just dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcerb44 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 minute ago, chillparsi1 said: By this logic Joe Thomas was a terrible pick for the Browns. Outside of QB there aren't many positions that DO radically change the fortunes of your team. Rome wasn't build in a day. And fortunately we're in a position where we are taking an already good team and trying to make it more elite. Don’t entirely agree with Horizon but LT is far more important than guard in team construction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 minute ago, pollino14 said: Listen gentlemen, nobody in the NFL is going to say “ look at Mike Iupati” when evaluating Quenton Nelson. They’re gonna evaluate him based on his film and test scores and they’ll rank him accordingly. Talent wise is he a top 15 pick, idk I’m not well versed in the class. But saying he’s not because he’s a guard is just dumb. Let's just put it this way. We won't take a thumping ILB in the top 10 either. It doesn't fit our scheme and values we assign to specific positions. Only way Nelson is going to us in the top 15 is if we plan to either: A) Run the ball like, and as often as, the Jags next year B) Think he is the RT of the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillparsi1 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: No, it's actually not the same logic because left tackles are literally twice as important as guards in the NFL that we are currently watching since it's 2018, not 1998. 8 minutes ago, dcerb44 said: Don’t entirely agree with Horizon but LT is far more important than guard in team construction. And I don't disagree. That's precisely my point. It highlights the flaw in the argument "What in the **** has Martin don for the Cowboys? Two playoff appearances since he was drafted. A single win. Oh, boy. " @HorizontoZenith I think there's 2 things at play here and that's where it's getting mixed up. I agree that Nelson/OG isn't what we should be looking at @ 14. Where I disagree is the greater argument that OG should NEVER be drafted that high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcerb44 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, chillparsi1 said: And I don't disagree. That's precisely my point. It highlights the flaw in the argument "That in the **** has Martin don for the Cowboys? Two playoff appearances since he was drafted. A single win. Oh, boy. " @HorizontoZenith I think there's 2 things at play here and that's where it's getting mixed up. I agree that Nelson/OG isn't what we should be looking at @ 14. Where I disagree is the greater argument that OG should NEVER be drafted that high. Nelson is easily a top 15 prospect. Would never argue that. When considering value and what we need though I personally wouldn’t hand in a card with his name on it at that slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, pollino14 said: Listen gentlemen, nobody in the NFL is going to say “ look at Mike Iupati” when evaluating Quenton Nelson. They’re gonna evaluate him based on his film and test scores and they’ll rank him accordingly. That is provably false. If teams didn't look down on the guard position, more would be drafted in the first round. Three percent of the top 14 picks since 1970 have been guards. You. Are. Wrong. Teams value certain positions above others. Guard ranks above only kicker and punter. It is literally the least drafted position in the top 14 outside of kicker and punter. I don't know why it's so hard for some of you people to understand the concept that it is not a valued position by literally any teams in the NFL right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollino14 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: That is provably false. If teams didn't look down on the guard position, more would be drafted in the first round. Three percent of the top 14 picks since 1970 have been guards. You. Are. Wrong. Teams value certain positions above others. Guard ranks above only kicker and punter. It is literally the least drafted position in the top 14 outside of kicker and punter. I don't know why it's so hard for some of you people to understand the concept that it is not a valued position by literally any teams in the NFL right now. And you clearly have trouble really comprehending what you’re reading. I can’t make it easier to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, pollino14 said: And you clearly have trouble really comprehending what you’re reading. I can’t make it easier to understand. Says always the person losing an argument. If a kicker was a top 15 prospect, would you be arguing this? Positions are important. You're just upset because you don't like the truth, or can't handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcerb44 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, HorizontoZenith said: Says always the person losing an argument. If a kicker was a top 15 prospect, would you be arguing this? Positions are important. You're just upset because you don't like the truth, or can't handle it. When has a kicker ever been that high of a prospect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Guys, I was wrong. Guard is the third least important position. Since 1970, top 14 picks: RB - 86 DE - 76 T - 75 QB - 72 LB - 72 DB - 69 WR - 68 DT - 57 G - 23 TE - 20 C - 2 That's 30 years worth of top 14 picks where the running game was just as if not more important than the passing game, and still... Guards weren't all that important. But Nelson is the best guard since 1970. Just like Cooper was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, dcerb44 said: When has a kicker ever been that high of a prospect? There hasn't been. Because kicker isn't all that important. That's... That's my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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