Mind Character

When Patriots show zero blitz with everybody at the line and our OLine hasn't played together long enough to instinctively know how to pass off guys or bump help block it could lead to a long long day. This is one of those games where Baker has to be comfortable throwing it away and checking it down to the RB. Also means Freddie has to actually call plays where Baker has a checkdown option.

Yeah, the Browns whole offense has taken turns screwing things up at various times: at times it's the OLine, at times it's the coaching, other times WR drops, other times Baker not seeing it well. You're right in that OLine play is a major factor in predicting our success. Right now there's some good football debate amongst Browns fans on this forum and elsewhere regarding whether or not the OLine has been the main determining factor in our struggles versus other factors taking priority in determining why we've sucked. When a team has a top 5 rusher and ranks in the 20s on QB pressure rates and gives up the 3rd least QB hits that offense should be performing better. But as you know watching Dalvin Cook ball-out, QB play and OLine play matter a lot more. Leading the league in penalties and shooting ourselves in the foot at inopportune times has really F-ed us up. Will be interesting to see if we can turn it around or not against the Pats. Probably not, but who really knows.

That rules Kendall Lamm out of the mix at Tackle. Down to Teller, McCray or Hubbard.

Browns Fan is not "Browns Fans." The "Browns are going to the Super-bowl" Browns fan were the loud minority that neither represented the feelings of most Browns fans who have been too tortured over the years to even let themselves believe just things pre-season for even a second nor were such "we're going to the Super Bowl" Browns fans the insightful or informed football observer. Not even the person that said "Greg was a godsend last year" truly believed he was a vital piece for Super Bowl contention as he said it "could've been a fluke performance" I can speak for the vast majority of Browns fans on FF and elsewhere; we were cautiously optimistic about Robinson but knew that our FO needed to urgently look for a replacement because it was only a matter of time until he regressed.

Greg Robinson wasn't playing so well that his play couldn't be matched or exceeded by someone else. The issue is do we have that person on the roster that could outplay him. A lot of people's snap judgment is the knee-jerk "of course anyone can play as good" reaction but such reactions don't really take into consideration the full body of work this season regarding OLine play, how Robinson has looked most of the time, and how others on the OLine have struggled often more so than Robinson at times. Either way, with Lamm still having some knee soreness we might go with.... 1.) Chris Hubbard LT and Justin McCray RT -- McCray doesn't have the feet and kick step for LT and is better served as right-side mauler inside if not outside. Hubbard has struggled a lot, but I could see us going to this move. 2.) Wyatt Teller LT and Justin McCray RT or Vice Versa -- We spent 2, 5th round picks on the guy and he hasn't played for us really yet. He doesn't have a strong anchor but has looked solid in tackle snaps at times. 3.) I really have no F-in clue what we're going to do.

It would be really really bad if John Dorsey informed Greg Robinson that he was benched and not Freddie first. It would also be revealing to me that Dorsey may have more power over starting/sitting roster decisions I really hope not as that's not the power/decision making dynamic you want on a team. Would make some sense why Chad Thomas has gotten the look over Genard Avery. To be clear, Dorsey being reported to have talked to Greg Robinson about being benched is not proof positive of anything. I just hope we're not dysfunctional like that.

That play is tasty confirmation bias desert. Let them have their evidence that "proves" their point. They can't be helped, lol. No one on this forum believes Greg Robinson hasn't played poorly in snaps and no one believes that Greg Robinson has not been a problematic. Not one. If one believes the world is black and white, it will be so and everything will fall into those 2 categories. It's always been about priority of problems. Out of the host of problems this team has had Greg Robinson is not in the top 3 issues even though he's definitely on the list. Chris Hubbard oddly enough is on that list ahead of Greg. I wonder if we're a little surprised but see Hubbard move to LT and McCray slide to RT. Let's hope Justin McCray isn't complete BBQ Chicken.

@MSURacerDT55 The Eagles mental preparation leading up to the super bowl that focused on not putting the Pats on a pedestal and seeing them as mere mortals who could be out executed, out-worked instead of seeing them as some unstoppable force of nature is ultimately what put the Eagles in position to beat them. Breaking the intimidation factor and not making this game out to be something it is not is critical. We just need to play the game and execute. They too can be food.

You're in denial man. Acknowledging that Baker has been personally responsible for many struggles this year does not mean you have to hate Baker or that you don't believe that Baker is still going to be a great QB. The OL has struggled some AND Freddie hasn't put Baker in successful situations a lot of times AND the Players around Baker haven't played well at times AND Baker was impressive on coaches film last year AND Baker's personally responsible for many of our teams struggles this year. All can be true. But if you believe that the OLine is the primary reason our offense is struggling you're not paying close enough attention imo. Analytically, Baker and the best QBs in the league are elite at what they do when there is no QB pressure around them. QB performance in non-QB pressure environments provides a predictive baseline for QB success because if a QB can't thrive when conditions are optimal around them they are most likely not going to perform well when conditions around them are sub-optimal. Analytically speaking, Even in these non-pressure scenarios when the OLine is performing well and there is NO pressure around Baker, Baker has unfortunately been one of the worst if not the worst QB in the league in the vast majority of statistics and metrics. The PFF guys discussed this at length a few times as have the Football Outsiders guys. Beyond what PFF analysts and FO analysts say if you look at the coaches film this year you'll see Baker not missing all kinds of reads and throws consistently even when the conditions around him are optimal. Baker's experiencing second year struggles. He could easily grow through all this and be just fine, but we can't sit here and act as if Baker is mostly both free of any blame and our OLine is collapsing every other play. The facts just don't support that..

Browns by 10. Embrace it. "Freddie gets us."

Sensationalizing and misunderstanding of dialect in Jarvis Landry's words are one of the many reasons why I hate the commercial media, as well as our beat writers. Landry said " We're goin' to win, we're goin' to win" as in "We are going there to win." That's much different from " We are gonna win" as in " We are going to win (the game." Landry clarifies people's/writers misperception of what he said and it gets blown up as " Jarvis Landry quickly backtracks on promise to win." Ensuing foolishness comparisons between Jarvis and Doug Pederson helps unleash more media foolishness about the Browns being more bluster than substance. What's worse is that Landry was not initially protected by our beat reporters who sat there and heard him say it but clearly aren't around people who speak with such vernaculars and dialects like Landry and/or people of color enough to be able to translate what he said properly. The context of the question and answer in context for our beat writers should of made it clear. After it was picked up and distorted and they talked to Landry they then got their sh*t in order. Here's Cleveland.com posting video of it with the distortion of what he said title "We are going to win." Our beat writers continue to be trash and the media continues to be trash also.

This.

You tell me who has more explosive and talented offensive players: the Dolphins, Washington, a Saquon-Barkley-less Giants, the Jets, Buffalo, or the Browns? When I say "we're the best offense they've faced all year" I of course am referring to how we look when we're playing at a high level. We have struggled to do so this year. So, what's driving my belief that we'll do so this week?? The truth is the proof is in the doing, but my belief is that coming off a bye week against an elite opponent we'll be focus and in tune enough to manifest the collective potential and ability of our talented offense. We do however often see teams come out sluggish after the bye week but I think the opponent and our early season performance make that not so likely. Now, who do I trust more disciplined, mentally focused, and mentally strong in a given game: A Belichick team, any team in the league, or our team? I'd take the Pats every single time. It's just for the reason of belief that I believe that contextual factors around this game (i.e., a bye week, Patriots short week, our players having ultimate respect for the opponent, our coaches hopefully learning lessons from self-scouting, the fact that our players know they can't afford to lose anymore games because the Ravens keep stacking wins, etc) will lead to optimal performance of our team and ultimately a much needed win against a great opponent that has had a cake-walk NFL schedule thus far.

I'd trade Two 1st round picks to Washington for Guard Brandon Sherff and DT Da'Ron Payne as the principle assets in the trade. Then, they could throw in Trent Williams. Payne and OGB would make for the best interior in the league in time. Payne unleashed in a 43 would be wild as he's already one of the best 34 NT in the game but his pass rushing disruption is schemed out of Washington's system often. Sherff is better than Bitonio. Sherff, Bitonio, and Tretter (re-signed) would give us the best interior in the league. Williams would buy us 2 years or so to find a successor at LT. Drew Forbes moves in and plays RT. OLine is fixed and a force for years. Myles, Payne, OGB with Richardson and Lawrence as a rotations elite unit. We'd have to find our elite pass rusher to pair with Myles in 2nd round or later (OR we could just let Genard Avery play as he was great in the run as well even though it's not discussed). The spots we need to spend high draft capital on would mostly be filled. CBs can be found throughout the first 2-3 rounds in a given year. We'd then be looking for a dynamic Safety, a DE, a LT successor, WRs. We would still have draft capital to go after some of those positions. This is my dream scenario type trade and it would add two core top 4 at their position players and a 2-year plug in play LT (if he's healthy) for Two 1sts. What we find in the draft wouldn't be close to that impact likely.

We traded Two, 5th Round picks for an OLineman that has yet to see a snap in Wyatt Teller. I have to think after the Bye week we he's going to be one of our starting 5

Defensive stops can often change the complexion of offensive football and provide the momentum and field position to fuel offensive success. Ultimately, I think our defensive performance will provide our offense with the opportunities to have more success. BUT that's not the only reason why I see the Browns winning this game and having success this game. The other reasons are: 1.) We can focus on the "passer" the Pats are going up against (Baker Mayfield), but really this is the first time the Pats are going up against a top RB in the league with home run ability (Nick Chubb) that is a part of an offense that the Pats can't just focus their scheming on just focusing on stopping the run or stopping the pass as the Browns have more dynamic personnel. 2,) Of course, one could say "well.. why has this dynamic personnel been so bad as of late if they are so good?." Well, in truth a lot of that has to do with Baker's struggles, Freddie Kitchens play-calling, but a major piece has to do with the Browns not having all their personnel healthy (WR Rashard Higgins Injured) or available (WR Antonio Callaway suspended) together this season. For this game, we'll have our full compliment of personnel outside of Kareem Hunt. Why that matters is because (see the next point): 3.) Baker's blitz beating, back shoulder safety blanket is returning from injury this game: WR Rashard Higgins. For those of us that actually watch this team, we know that much of Baker's 3rd down and critical blitz situation success came from conversions to Rashard Higgins with hot or coverage beating throws that are based in both pinpoint ball placement and WR chemistry that he has with Higgins. Higgins has also been effective at finding spots in zone when that coverage is employed. Ultimately, Higgins, OBJ, Jarvis, and a surging Ricky Seals-Jones not only give the Browns offense a full compliment of versatile offensive pieces for the first time really this year, but also mixing in vertical threat Antonio Callaway allows dynamic personnel groupings and playcalls to keep defenses stressed and uncertain of what's to come. 4.) None of those teams the Patriots faced had personnel to beat Man and 1-on-1 coverage on the outside when the Patriots Zero blitz or more commonly Zone-Man match blitz from either the strong or weak side. You can't do what has often given them success against previous QBs when you have Odell Beckham more so but also Jarvis Landry on the outside. ------- The Pats are a great team. but a Browns with a full compliment of Offensive personnel playing together as well as our 2 starting CB returning (Denzel Ward and Greedy Williams) poses a test the Pats haven't faced all year imo. The only question for us is the Offensive Line and whether we make sweeping changes at key positions, as well as how we adjust to having our do it all Free Safety Damarious Randall out. I expect us to come out focused and looking as good as we've been all season coming out of the buy. Will that be enough to beat the Pats? Who knows? Right now I saw we come out firing on all cylinders and win by 10.

Lol. I linked it and I never read a single word in his piece .. hahah That's why I put at the top (article includes ALL-22 view on each) and didn't comment on the analysis as I figured most would be like me and just watch the cut-ups.

There are some truths that are being left out when discussing how "great" this Patriots Defense is: Look at the offenses they've gone against and who the QB was inexperience or talent-wise: Wk 1 - Inexperienced Steelers - Hobbled week 1 Ben Wk 2- Dolphins - Josh Rosen rookie starts-wise Wk 3- Jets - Luke Falk-rookie starts wise Wk 4- Buffalo - Josh Allen-rookie starts wise Wk 5- Washington - Colt McCoy hobbled Wk 6- Giants - Daniel Jones rookie Wk 7- Jets - Sam Darnold a game back from weeks off rookie starts wise. They've literally faced all rookie's in terms of career starts and a two hobbled QBs in Ben and McCoy ----------- Our offense is literally going to be the first real test for them, and I wouldn't be surprised if we have success and make them look like BBQ Chicken at times. The Pats aren't an All-time Defense despite the statistics b/c they haven't stopped anyone of note yet. And here's the most under-discussed thing about the Pats, their offense has struggled and Brady gets spooked by pressure. --------- We have to get wild with blitzes and heat Brady up. I actually feel really good about this game, and I think we're going to put it together and win by 10.

Things could get a little wild here... In reference to the Nate Solder stuff, I Texted my b.i.l.: "Please tell me this is some sort of sick Joke...Nate freakin Solder???" His words exactly: " All I know is that the agent of B.J. Hill thinks his client could be headed to the Browns soon in a trade that involves Nate Solder, multiple picks and Avery. I've heard the Browns are trying to get Slayton and Hill in the return but Blue isn't going for it with Slayton and that Blue is trying to get Carrie but they're not going for it." ----- I wouldn't trade Genard Avery or TJ Carrie by themselves straight up for Nate Solder; Solder is washed and a less athletic and a porous OL option than Chris Hubbard or Greg Robinson. Sh*t.. I wouldn't trade Chris Hubbard or Greg Robinson straight up for Nate Solder nor would I trade a 5th round pick straight up for Solder. If Dorsey goes through with this trade and it involves picks higher than a 6th rounder or a reliable backup/spot starter in Carrie and/or a future star situational rusher (Genard Avery) he has officially lost his mind and can't scout OLineman for sh**. Why would the Giants be willing to give up a Tackle when they have a rookie QB? Well, it's because that tackle is washed. I liked B.J. HIll coming out of college and Darius Slayton has shown something this year (I liked him in college as well). So, if we got both of them in return in some trade it would take the sting off of it some but Solder ain't it and I'd rather ride it out with G-Rob and/or internal candidates than trade valuable draft capital for a guy a Tackle that we'll wish didn't make the team next year.

He might have been on the practice squad I can't recall. Again though, the point isn't really about the "rookie year per se" but more so about their first 16-20 starts. I do think that based on performance within that time frame of early career, most people thought Jameis, Mariota, and Bulger were going to have great careers. Also, it's not informative to me to say things like "Josh Rosen or [Insert Rookie QB Name Here] didn't have a good/great rookie season so he's not a franchise QB," because so many things effect the success of a rookie QB with the main factor often being that the Rookie QB is on a terrible team with a terrible offensive line. Predicting future success based on performance in the first 16-20 starts has a lot to do with the flashes and whether or not one thinks such flashes are sustainable over time. Ultimately, a 16 o 20 game sample size isn't really predictive of anything (good or bad) based on the history of the NFL.

1.) There was a second sentence above that completed that thought "There's a lot of QBs that looked like "HOFers" after their rookie years then fell off the wagon. The opposite is true as well." But the preceding sentence was the Thesis of my point: "Regression is a part of the young QB experience." 2.) I put quotations around "HOFer" b/c the sentence "Baker looked like a HOFer his rookie year" weren't my words or belief as I don't and didn't think RG3 or Baker looked like a "HOFer" or whatever that means after their first year despite their historic production as an 8 game or a few more games sample size isn't predictive of a career. My point was that there are many cases of QBs looking like "good-great potential Franchise QBs" in year 1 or early career that regress or seriously regress aka "fall off the wagon" and don't turn out to fulfill their early promise as time progresses. In the light of QBs that looked like good-great Franchise QBs within their first 16 games (this of course could stretch over 2 seasons) a few come to mind off the top of my head: Marcus Mariota, Jameis WInston, Blake Bortles, RG3, Ryan Tannehill, Marc Bulger. 3.) Just isolating historic rookie QB performances isn't informative because there's a reason why young QBs don't achieve historic success or look good beyond their just inexperience: That is, they are usually on terrible teams because of where they were drafted. 4.) In general my point was my point:

Regression is part of the young QB experience. There's a lot of QBs that looked like "HOFers" after their rookie years then fell off the wagon. The opposite is true as well. Baker's regression may not be for not if he can grow and fight his way through to the other side of this thing. Nothing is certain yet. after 17-18 starts. At 38-40 starts, we'll know what we have for sure. Best to hope for the best after a promising start. There's some troubling signs but it can be true that Freddie has done a poor job at times as has Baker. An impressive performance against New England or a good team will have most feeling like all is right in the world. They'd be wrong as well. Only time will tell. Until then, sit back and enjoy the ride and all its madness.

Nigh...

Browns are 3rd Best in the league in lowest QB hits at 22 (30th); the Steelers and Raiders are tied for 1st-2nd at 13 QB hits. Browns are 16th in the league in QB sacks at 16 sacks. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&role=TM&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_QBHIT ---- DVOA Adjusted Sack rate has us 24th https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol/2019 ---- My PFF Elite expired (I'm waiting until the Holiday discount to renew), but if someone has the team pressure statistics with their PFF Elite let me know it would be interesting to see where they have us.

I think we need to go 8-2 over our last 10 games to make the playoffs as the Ravens are going to win at least 4 more games (Jets, Bengals, Pit, and 1 more); they might win 5 more putting them at 10-6. I think we end up going 7-3 over the course of the next 10 games finishing 9-7 on the season and miss the playoffs.