Mind Character

umm... that's not how growing works ... lol.,, nothing about being 20 says a male is going to continue to keep growing in height. On some occasions those with late growth spurts do, but you can't count on that. Donovan Mitchell by next year or by 25 will also be 6'5.5". I'm sure the Jazz are thrilled.

You can't just boxscore scout especially in basketball when effective field goal percentage and other breakdown of shot making is available that factor in the type of shot taken and the below average, average, above average, and expected conversion rate on such similar shots given the database of all players. This is important for high volume 3-point shooters whose 3pt FGAs make an outsized amount of their total FGAs. Reddish role was as a 3pt spacer on that team allowing for RJ Barrett to dribble drive via isolation or pass chain quick actions or isos for Zion. Without getting into the analytics, just take a look at the fact that Reddish took 12 FGAs a game on average. Of that 12, he took 7.5 - 3pt shots a game. That's a more difficult shot percentage wise. He then took 4.6 2pt shots making 1.8 of them for around 40% for his 2pt shooting percentage; however, analytics show that the 2pt shots he attempted were not of the high percentage to be made variety at the basket, in the paint, or even midrange but instead he has an outsized amount of 2pt shot attempts that were in effect one or 2 step in from the 3pt line... shots that analytics driven approaches hate b/c if you're going to shoot that low percentage shot you might as well shoot a 3 pointer. Interestingly, Reddish has one of the highest FGPs in clutch moments and in the 4th QTR. It's okay to not like Reddish as a prospect, but citing his FG% without framing it against the backdrop of actual play context distorts things a bit.

All information is information. Rumor mill negatives about Reddish are information. Coaches opinions on him are information. All should be skeptical about information on things they don't have direct experience with. I'm a skeptic. The information you've heard about Reddish is information susceptible to rumor mill distortion as well. What I looked at wasn't just the words of coaches, but long/deep pieces about Reddish' upbringing, his motivation, his weaknesses, his struggles in development, the root of his play issues. His High School and AAU coaches were very candid in a lot of the articles and comments about Cam as a youthful player giving specific details of the source of things related to Cam. There is coaches speak and then there's more thoughtful coaching analysis of a past player they've coached. What I've read has been the latter. And I'm still skeptical. Ultimately, those discarding Reddish outright because rumor mill scuttlebutt and labels that often stick to players despite being untrue aren't skeptical of the general rumors they're hearing. Some of the backstory and depth of analysis his past and current coaches have spoken of aren't likely to be distortions of the truth.

Agreed. If they are true (that he is lazy), we shouldn't pick him. I could be wrong ... I just don't believe it based on my belief in the truth of words of his high school, AAU, and college coaches saying the "lazy and lack of love of the game" are "misevaluations of him" as instead early in his career "he's a perfectionist that beats himself up to the point of paralysis" and "now he's learned to let go and play each play but he regresses sometimes" and "he's invested in the trust your work guiding phrase and works as hard as anybody." If those coaches are right and the negative opinions in the public are based on Reddish not living up to the hype compared to RJ Barrett and Zion combined with his lack of fire in his style of play, then I'm all in on taking Reddish if Hunter's gone. His clutch meter in multiple games with big johnson, baker sideline celebration 3s showed that in the big moments he doesn't fade in the same way Culver has. Should be interesting to see how it works out.

"Duke's Cam Reddish 'A Beautiful Player' Battling an Ugly Reputation" https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2823969-dukes-cam-reddish-a-beautiful-player-battling-an-ugly-reputation ---------------- “Cam’s an incredible perfectionist,” Berger (High School Coach) said. “When Cam made one mistake that first year, I felt like I had to take him out of the game because he was going to shut down. Last year if he made two or three mistakes, I felt like he was gonna shut down.” Reddish is still trying to be a “next play” guy. Where scouts might see a lack of constant competitiveness, Berger sees a kind, gentle kid who demands excellence out of himself. “When Cam shuts down, it’s when he’s frustrated with himself,” Berger said. “It’s not because he’s not interested in being the best he can be, or being disrespectful. It’s when Cam makes a few mistakes in a row, Cam gets really frustrated with Cam. “Expect perfection, but accept humanity is one of our phrases. That’s what Cam’s still working through at the start of his Junior season" https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2017/11/2/16536978/cameron-reddish-duke-recruiting-nba-draft-2019-usa-basketball ------------------------------------------------------------------- @buno67 @LETSGOBROWNIES Labels are labels ... and often not true. For years, Tracy McGrady was labeled lazy and soft when in actuality he was a gym rat and all-world competitor. We can't confuse a players smooth, unemotional play personality with their work ethic or commitment. What is true about Reddish is that he's 19 years old, lacks focus, and doesn't have the most mature game from an understanding of situational awareness. Those things can develop with time, especially with good developmental coaching. He's not a basketball IQ genius like LeBron but few are. He needs a lot of development. Will he compete and will he work? Does he have a drive to be great? Those are questions our FO has to answer. Rumors say he doesn't. Some digging into his background and into the kid say otherwise. Which is true? What's true is he has all the raw tools of an elite player and displays that elite ability inconsistently. 3 years of quality NBA coaching and development, where could his ability and skill progress? I watched Zion and Duke every game; Reddish is engaged on defense but lacks defensive awareness. He's further along than most in that regard at the same level of development however guarding the Shooting Guard spot requires more than guarding SFs in terms of the awareness to chase around big man down screens and actions. At 5, if we don't trade down and only Culver and White are on the board, Reddish is worth the gamble because Culver at worst becomes a streaky shooter that lacks length and ability on the defensive end. At worst, Coby White is an amazing glue/role player; and at worst Reddish is a 3-point marksmen specialist role player with the length and size to impact the defensive side of the ball.

If Hunter is gone, and Coby White isn't a fit, Give Beilein the raw uber talented Cam Reddish and let him develop that gamble into a big payoff. After further review, Culver isn't it. Sexton and Reddish are a great stylistic fit.

I'm all in with you.... well to a certain extent. I was against this but upon further review it's the only worthwhile gamble assuming Zion, Ja, Barrett, and Hunter are off the board. I've been going back through Jarrett Culver and Coby White's NCAA Tournament, Conference Tournament play, and better and worse games. I just can't see Culver making a serious quality impact at the next level anymore and it sucks to come to that realization. He's Wesley Matthew without the 3point shooting marksmen skill. Coby White is a tremendous all college player with amazing intangibles, but he's not going to ever be an all-star but instead will likely be an elite role player who provides Draymond Green glue player type contribution from the combo guard spot. There's a lot to like and value about that. Reddish has elite shooting range and ability to be the best player in this draft. A lot of concerns about his consistency and focus are warranted but he often gets the Tracy McGrady criticism where the ease at which they play the game gets confused for lack of love for the game or laziness. I'd rather bet on Reddish who can be a star or provide star contribution than bet on Culver who I know is never going to get there. 1. DeAndre Hunter, 2. Cam Reddish, 3. Coby White

David Griffin is the man...

I'm not sure how Culver is superior to Hunter. He's a better ball handler and volume scorer, but that's it imo. The NCG was interesting to see Culver and Hunter on the floor at the same time often guarding each other most of the game. Hunter lock down Culver and Culver couldn't stop Hunter when they were matched up. One game is not the whole story of Culver and/or Hunter's game of course. ... and Umm... remember Kawhi at san diego st.? Current Kawhi, of course he's not close. I'm talking about as 2 year college athletes and their development. Their play traits are very similar (not the same) with Kawhi being the superior prospect in terms of mid range, defensive engagement, defensive instincts, and rebounding prowess. Hunter has superior 3 point and long range touch (at the same level of development), is a better ball handler (even though he doesn't do it much), has a superior post and triple threat game. Both have go go gadget arms and massive hands, as well as move similarly on the floor in terms of body dynamics.4 They have a lot of similar traits. I'd rather have Coby White over Culver in terms of fit for our team when it comes to 2-guards/combo guards even though Culver's the better player in my mind.

If you're David Griffin, would you prefer to trade Anthony Davis to: 1.) The Knicks (weaken the conference) for #3 overall, Kevin Knox, a vet contract to match salaries, and Mitchell Robinson. Then Draft RJ Barrett. 2.) The Lakers (strengthen the conference) for #4 overall, Kyle Kuzma, Brandon Ingram, Josh Hart, a vet contract to match salaries, and a future Lakers 1st 1st. Then Draft one of DeAndre Hunter, Darius Garland, Jarrett Culver, or Coby White. --------- In this hypothetical and other similar one's I'm going with the Knicks trade everytime b/c Brandon Ingram's health concerns and the lower draft pick for the Lakers. If the Lakers got 3 instead of 4, they could very well be in the drivers seat for the Anthony Davis trade. Tough outcome for the Lake Show and Bron.

This ... again... I knew the lottery was going to get wild. Lucky for us we ended up at 5 and not 6. I know people on here love Culver, but to me we have to be laser focused on one name and one name only at 5: DeAndre Hunter. Assuming Zion, Ja, and Barrett are gone. The only prospect with superstar upside is Hunter or Garland. Culver and Hachimura are solid but unspectacular next level prospects. Coby White has the highest floor but a low ceiling. DeAndre Hunter == 3 and D, miniature Kawhi Leonard. Sign me up.

Who's ready for our Tunnel Vision RJ Barrett and Colin Sexton offense ...

Setting aside the possibility that Beilein could be a high quality and great nba head coach, the timing of the hire seems odd and may point to Dan Gilbert once again making decisions that supersede the front office for a "big fish" hire. Could be that things were kept quiet due to the delicate nature of hiring a college coach given recruiting classes and interfering with university prestige. None of this of course means it is not a good hire but Altman and co. primarily had already interviewed over 7 candidates with NBA player development being their main criteria along with an affinity for analytics, as well as a coach with a balanced offensive and defensive philosophy. Based on reports Altman was centered on Jordi Fernandez as the lead candidate followed by Alex Jensen and Ime Udoka, and had just interviewed his primary candidate in Denver, as well as set up follow-up interviews and scheduled additional ones. The next day we hire Beilein. Will be interesting to hear reports on how this process really went.

I think much to spectators surprise the new draft lottery odds are going to produce some wild, unexpected results which is exactly what the NBA wants to legitimize its new lottery disincentivized higher odds. A lot of key teams will find themselves picking a lot lower than they thought. To my surprise though there are 3 franchise, multi, year in and year out all star players (Ja Morant, DeAndre Hunter, and Zion Williamson); 3 high quality starters with a lot of upside (RJ Barrett, Jarrett Culver, and Coby White). If we get a top 3 pick and take Morant, Hunter, or Williamson, it is a slam dunk. We're still going to get a really good player even if we pick in the top 6

(We know you're not reading this). It's not about overthinking; it's about me starting to actually attempt to become knowledgeable about the prospects in this draft and beginning to think in the first place and not just going off popular belief alone but assess the evidence behind the evaluations or beliefs. Before thinking really at all or researching anything, it was "Zion or Bust".. then whispers of some guy named Ja then soon after it became "Ja or Bust; there's only 2 high quality impact players in this draft." They are great players... really great prospects, but the question remained: Are there any other great prospects in the draft? To answer that, DeAndre Hunter was the one other clear player to be considered in my opinion and it surprised me a lot how similar he was to Kawhi Leonard college basketball skillset and as a result surprised me that he wasn't being talked about more. I then discovered Jarrett Culver's game and had him rated as being on the outside of the Ja, DeAndre, and Zion group. Then there was the question, beyond popular sentiment and the electricity of Zion, why exactly is Zion the safer option over the likes of a DeAndre Hunter type? The answer to that question surprised me as when it comes to the now and future natural Mid-Range and 3-Point shot making, now and future natural ability to create for others off the dribble, the now and future natural ability to shoot of the dribble, post game versatility scoring ability, and the natural ability to create one's shot off the dribble Hunter is superior to Zion along those critical basketball dimensions. Zion gets the nod along the dimensions of intangibles, block ability, team energy tone-setter, play personality, defensive upside, blocking ability, ability to finish through contact at the rim, and dunking ability. Both Zion and Hunter can guard all 5 positions with Hunter's length a great asset and Zion's size and athleticism and timing being key assets for him. So, it comes down to a debate between a limited offensive skillset, higher intangibles and energy giving, supreme defender skillset two-way prospect in Zion WIlliamson and a supremely diverse offensively gifted, lower intangibles/energy giving, great defender skillset two-way prospect in DeAndre Hunter. That means Hunter on his own merits gets a slight nod to Williamson as a prospect imo; therefore, making a trade down with the acquired assets that come with a trade back if we were positioned to get Zion definitely the winning move. I get the argument and make it myself with why we should just take Ja Morant. That's easy. By all accounts (it could be misinfo but misinfo is less likely in the nba draft process), the Cavs personnel types might prefer RJ Barrett over Ja so Ja could be out of the running for us unfortunately. than is Zion? Is he a guy that can get

Convince me otherwise. My Assessment: DeAndre Hunter (and to a lesser extent OR Jarrett Culver,), plus a quality player, and Major Future Draft Assets via a draft day trade down from the 1st or 2nd picks are far more valuable (especially in the case of drafting Hunter) than just drafting Zion Williamson, Ja Morant, or any other prospect outright in the draft. Cavs-Centric NBA Draft Big Board: Tier I: 1.) Ja Morant, PG Murray St. 2a.) DeAndre Hunter, SF Virginia 2b.) Zion Williamson, PF Duke 4.) Jarrett Culver, SG Texas Tech Tier II. 5.) RJ Barrett, SG Duke 6.) Coby White, CG North Carolina 7.) Cameron Reddish, SG Duke ----- I would've never thought I'd think this way about the draft at the start of the season, but actual game-play study has changed my mind. It's an unpopular opinion but if we land picks 1 or 2, we absolutely should trade down and accumulate tons of assets b/c the more film I've watched (from 4K All-22 of course) there's not that much separating the projected win-contribution impact between the top players 1 through 4 imo. Mostly I think this because I believe there is a hidden gem in this draft named DeAndre Hunter who happens to be a player that has the natural shot, play traits, athleticism, and intuitive feel for the game to be a Kawhi Leonard type impact player in the near future. I say he's a hidden gem b/c in a draft with really really good flash players with substance (Ja and Zion) Hunter might actually have the highest upside give the current trajectory of his skill development as well as the highest floor. It's harder to imagine that Zion will ever be an really good shooter off the dribble or otherwise (not that he necessarily needs to be) even as he develops more. Even without his flash dunks, Zion is a spectacular prospect for his play personality, intangibles, defensive versatility, and infectious energy. Hunter, however, has a more complete scoring, shot creation, and defensive skill set to develop from. He can already create his shot off the dribble and is a really good shooter. His utilization in the post took touches away from his ability to handle on the perimeter and create shots for others which he has the surprising ability to do when used that way. His length, size, and engaged energy on defense allows him to defend all 5 positions as well although his timing and feel for blocks is less than average and outshined by Kawhi and Zion types. Hunter can create out of the post much like Kawhi coming out of college. To be clear, Kawhi was the freakier athlete, far superior defender and shot blocker, and had an already developed skill set for shot creation in midrange with a tremendous midrange touch. Even still, I've come to the conclusion that DeAndre Hunter (and to a lesser extent OR Jarrett Culver,), plus a quality player, and Major Future Draft Assets are more valuable than just drafting Zion Williamson, Ja Morant, or any other prospect in the draft.

I did it all for the Love of the Game and Country ...

"Condescending as hell" ... hahaha... good internet times....

Your post is filled with naivete regarding Dan Gilbert's ruthlessness and shrewdness in both the Detroit and Cleveland economic and political machine, as well as how owners use public subsidy to laugh all the way to the bank. But more specifically to the Cleveland context, the public was strongly against publicly subsidizing the Arena renovations based on the opportunity cost of that 105.5 Millioin dollars (yes, $105.5 Million is that actually number based on the total cost to the public including interest (https://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/2017/05/how_the_cavs_quicken_loans_ren.html ... the public being against it because of the opportunity cost of that 105.5 M could've been used on programs to to revitalize public health, the rotting schools and neighborhoods, the lead crisis in Cleveland schools and city soil, the lack of funding in the public school system in terms of building quality (mold), and other key community commitments. Dan Gilbert paid tons of money to lobby and threw his weight around threatening the political machine to get City Council to reject the public's organized wishes to not subsidize the renovations. Anyone doing any analysis on the renovations knows that the financial commitment from the Cavaliers in the current renovation as well as the forthcoming major financial from "renovations of arena/stadium, as well as the downtown and areas near the stadiums/arena" is made back immediately via construction, real-estate, industrial materials, and land deals many times over. Much research has been done regarding the known, hidden, and opportunity costs of stadium/arena subsidies https://medium.com/concentrated-benefits/the-hidden-costs-of-stadium-subsidies-fbc079f335f3and it would be wise not to cast Owners like Dan Gilbert as do-gooders deserving praise for their deeds for a wide-variety of reasons. The key dimensions to evaluate Dan Gilbert aren't him giving the green light following through on his commitment to spend that was promised when he, rich paul, and Lebron spoke during the free agency meeting and Lebron holding him to it via signing 1-year deals and David Griffin and co working through a sh*t storm of ownership meddling. It's about evaluating the things that the respected beat writers or anyone paying attention would tell you he did to torpedo everything once again.

" Scoreboard ... Scoreboard... " Well schucks... that's all you had to say... he did all that championship stuff huh... well excuse me.. I do declare... Guess we shouldn't criticize him for David Griffin who also has a ring leaving or any of those other players with rings leaving or any of that other stuff either b/c of his amazing job he's done with Lebron for 11 years in the past and continues to do. And the Rocket Mortgage Field house has undergone so many beautiful improvements and renovations via 105.5 million dollars of our tax dollars no one voted for. You've convinced me; we should build a statue for Dan Gilbert and silence all criticism. Bring on Rick Pitino...

Rick Pitino? That came out of nowhere...

Absolutely agree. I definitely hear you on the tribe man. The baseball team's decisions to readily move great players (So long Lindor soon smdh) hurts bad.... real bad. Unlike Baseball where there is a chance to take a shot at winning or compete to win every 6-7 years or so with lower salary commitments a la money-ball analytics-driven roster building Basketball is a 1 to 2 star player game money making monster, beyond reported revenue sport where having one of the nba greats on one's team at that time required an owner to maximally spend to compete with the nba team landscape. I've said it before... if a person makes $30,000 a year, 2.7% of that is $810; if a person makes $60,000 a year, 2.7% of that is $1,620; if a person has $6,000 million dollars, 2.7% of that is $162 million dollars which is approximately equal to the cavaliers highest payroll+luxury tax+expenditures. So, in comparative dollars, if Dan Gilbert made $30,000 a year he in effect paid $810 annually that year for the right to own the Cavaliers and all the economic, political, and social power and unreported $profits that comes with when owning a sports team's primary value to billionaires in their own words is not the profit of the team, but is more so about " the Power it bestows over the City's business and political machine and all decisions that flow from them." So, I'm not all that appreciative of Dan Gilbert spending given the circumstances of Lebron being on the team in that nba landscape. Spending money was the easier automatic decision that any NBA owner would've done in the same situation as part of the rules of engagement to maintain brand prestige/commitment. The issue is would any of the good to great owners torpedoed our basketball operations and personnel departments and disgruntled star players? Maybe some would but probably not...most are more prudent than that... that's why anything everything Dan Gilbert is trash and he deserves more criticism than praise by a massive margin.

When Kolby gets fired in 3 years to meet the every 4 year GM firing "this is normal we're a great organization don't remember that we had Kyrie and Lebron and essentially fired the only GM to bring a modern day Championship to the City (David Griffin; Assist GM Trent Redden leaving after) b/c of power tripping " press conference, there will still be those " Gilbert should be applauded for spending so much money into the luxury tax for the championship (even though it was literally a drop in the bucket and the community subsidizes his wealth" Dan GIlbert stans willing and ready to fondle his nether region at a moments command. He has so much power in the political machine and media machine in Cleveland no journalist ever really challenge how terrible of an owner he is... no papers will run the stories.. it's a damn shame. The Kolby Altman intro presser after the Kyrie Trade... losing Lebron .. and firing David Griffin was shameful for the media as they were all too scared to raise any serious questions about the seismic change that had taken place that began with Gilbert not paying assistant coaches until the day of training camp and pestering and undermining David Griffin via his own trade calls incessantly 3 seasons prior til the present day. And the buffoon wanted to compete for playoffs this year and ruin our lottery pick .. we were never going to compete for the playoffs, but if our roster stayed healthy we would've likely lost our pick back to Atlanta having no real piece to build with on a below average team.

@LETSGOBROWNIES Yeah ... not cool bro ...