Jayson, Ben & Don

[kyle21121]

OG

[CWood21]

18 hours ago, DoleINGout said:

Tatum, Tatum. Not even a discussion with Simmons. “Don” is close right now for both, but clearly Tatum is the best pick in the 2018 NBA Draft. Lauri Markkanen is in the discussion to me as well.

Lulz.  The impact that Simmons has on the court far exceeds the impact that Tatum has.  Even if Simmons can shoot from any semblance of range.

[MookieMonstah]

12 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Lulz.  The impact that Simmons has on the court far exceeds the impact that Tatum has.  Even if Simmons can shoot from any semblance of range.

lol why? Because he's a better passer? Tatum has an incredible offensive game and has to be accounted for at all times, they impact the game in different ways. "Far exceeds", what a horrible take.

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, MookieMonster said:

lol why? Because he's a better passer? Tatum has an incredible offensive game and has to be accounted for at all times, they impact the game in different ways. "Far exceeds", what a horrible take.

Better rebounder, better passer, actually can run an offense, etc.  This isn't a knock on Tatum, Simmons is just a player who can impact a game well beyond scoring.  That's not Tatum.  It's only a horrible take because you think I'm insulting Tatum.  Simmons' impact on the game far exceeds Tatum, and how much you scoff and care to ignore that Simmons' passing ability tells me enough about this discussion.

[MookieMonstah]

Just now, CWood21 said:

Better rebounder, better passer, actually can run an offense, etc.  This isn't a knock on Tatum, Simmons is just a player who can impact a game well beyond scoring.  That's not Tatum.  It's only a horrible take because you think I'm insulting Tatum.  Simmons' impact on the game far exceeds Tatum, and how much you scoff and care to ignore that Simmons' passing ability tells me enough about this discussion.

Until the playoffs when a decent defense makes Simmons look like a D-League player.

Tatum isn't asked to run the offense, I don't see any reason we couldn't run an offense through him except the fact that Stevens system utilized Kyrie/Horford in that regard more. Simmons is definitely a better rebounder and passer but Tatums offensive game legitimately blows his out of the water. Its not even freaking close. They impact the game in different ways but I think Tatums is a much tougher guard.

[MookieMonstah]

Case in point - The Celtics are literally just sagging 5-7 feet off Simmons and playing help defense. He needs a jumper or he's going to be that guy who always "disappoints" in the playoffs when the defenses step up.

[CWood21]

5 minutes ago, MookieMonster said:

Until the playoffs when a decent defense makes Simmons look like a D-League player.

Tatum isn't asked to run the offense, I don't see any reason we couldn't run an offense through him except the fact that Stevens system utilized Kyrie/Horford in that regard more. Simmons is definitely a better rebounder and passer but Tatums offensive game legitimately blows his out of the water. Its not even freaking close. They impact the game in different ways but I think Tatums is a much tougher guard.

So basically what you're telling me is that teams don't play defense until the playoffs?  Simmons' FG% has gone down, which is to be expected since Tatum's went down as well.  Just because you don't see any reason you couldn't run an offense doesn't make it a valid argument.  Simmons' runs the Sixers' offense, Tatum doesn't.  Just because you believe Tatum can isn't a valid argument, so please don't try and make something out of nothing.  But saying that Tatum's offensive game "legitimately blows his out of the water and its not close" is purely an opinion of yours based on a completely unsupported opinion.  Tatum isn't asked to run an offense, Simmons is.  That's night and day difference.

BTW, who is Don?

[MookieMonstah]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

So basically what you're telling me is that teams don't play defense until the playoffs?  Simmons' FG% has gone down, which is to be expected since Tatum's went down as well.  Just because you don't see any reason you couldn't run an offense doesn't make it a valid argument.  Simmons' runs the Sixers' offense, Tatum doesn't.  Just because you believe Tatum can isn't a valid argument, so please don't try and make something out of nothing.  But saying that Tatum's offensive game "legitimately blows his out of the water and its not close" is purely an opinion of yours based on a completely unsupported opinion.  Tatum isn't asked to run an offense, Simmons is.  That's night and day difference.

BTW, who is Don?

lol stop it. You know defense picks up in the playoffs. Its absolutely a valid argument, the teams are night and day different. Sixers have NO ONE else who could run an offense, Celtics have two guys who can at a great level already.  Wait, you don't think Tatum has a better offensive game than Simmons? Please tell me you're joking...

Don is Donovan Mitchell.

[CWood21]

7 minutes ago, MookieMonster said:

Case in point - The Celtics are literally just sagging 5-7 feet off Simmons and playing help defense. He needs a jumper or he's going to be that guy who always "disappoints" in the playoffs when the defenses step up.

Or the Sixers offense creates opportunities for mismatch with Simmons.  It's really not a complex situation.  With the exception of G2 against Boston, he's been excellent.  Quite frankly, Tatum's G2 and G5 against Milwaukee are as bad if not worse than Simmons G2.

[CWood21]

Just now, MookieMonster said:

lol stop it. You know defense picks up in the playoffs. Its absolutely a valid argument, the teams are night and day different. Sixers have NO ONE else who could run an offense, Celtics have two guys who can at a great level already.  Wait, you don't think Tatum has a better offensive game than Simmons? Please tell me you're joking...

Because they had Fultz on the shelf for most of this year.  Who exactly are the suppose to have run the offense?  J.J. Redick?  TJ McConnell?  This is why the development of Fultz, and how he can coexist with Simmons is going to be HUGE for the Sixers' future.  If he can't co-exist with Simmons, particularly in off-ball situations he's going to struggle.  And no, I don't think Tatum has a better offensive game than Simmons.  He's a much, much better shooter.  But fortunately for Simmons, there's more to offense than just shooting.

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, MookieMonster said:

Its absolutely a valid argument, the teams are night and day different.

No it's not a valid argument, because it's based PURELY on your opinion.  Tatum hasn't been asked to run the offense, even after the Celtics lost Kyrie Irving.  You can't just make an opinion and put it out there as a fact.  That's not how arguments work.

[11sanchez11]

7 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

But saying that Tatum's offensive game "legitimately blows his out of the water and its not close" is purely an opinion of yours based on a completely unsupported opinion.

They are playing in the same series, one is averaging more than twice the PPG (24.3 v 11.7) and still shooting 7% better from the field.

[MookieMonstah]

3 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Because they had Fultz on the shelf for most of this year.  Who exactly are the suppose to have run the offense?  J.J. Redick?  TJ McConnell?  This is why the development of Fultz, and how he can coexist with Simmons is going to be HUGE for the Sixers' future.  If he can't co-exist with Simmons, particularly in off-ball situations he's going to struggle.  And no, I don't think Tatum has a better offensive game than Simmons.  He's a much, much better shooter.  But fortunately for Simmons, there's more to offense than just shooting.

Dude. WHAT. Tatum has an incredible variety of moves its not just shooting. In terms of scoring, Tatum is leaps and bounds ahead of Simmons right now. Simmons can attack the rim and finish well but Tatum can score from any spot on the court in a variety of ways that Simmons simply doesn't possess, and hes two years younger. The kids 19.

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, 11sanchez11 said:

They are playing in the same series, one is averaging more than twice the PPG (24.3 v 11.7) and still shooting 7% better from the field.

He's a better shooter.  We've already established that like a million times over.  If you wanna argue whose the better scorer/shooter, we can have that argument.  But the argument was who was the better offensive player.  Last I saw, Simmons was averaging 7 APG and shooting 48% from the field which includes his clunker of G2.  Tatum is averaging 2.7 APG and shooting 55% from the field.  IF you exclude G2, Simmons is shooting 56% from the field.  LIS, if you want to make the argument that Tatum is the better scorer/shooter, I'm not going to argue.  But Simmons handles significantly more of the offensive load.

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, MookieMonster said:

Dude. WHAT. Tatum has an incredible variety of moves its not just shooting. In terms of scoring, Tatum is leaps and bounds ahead of Simmons right now. Simmons can attack the rim and finish well but Tatum can score from any spot on the court in a variety of ways that Simmons simply doesn't possess, and hes two years younger. The kids 19.

Is there nothing more to offense than scoring/shooting?