El Ramster Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Remember when the ravens were so good before. I do. I really do. Another franchise that had a great run but will spend the next 10 years as the new Browns along with the Browns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 28 minutes ago, Darth Pees said: JUST STOP ALREADY Poor competition in 2012? Bro we beat the Colts, Manning-led Broncos and Brady-led Patriots and then the prime Kaepernick and Patrick Willis Niners....stop making a fool of yourself, this is so sad to watch. If you remember those games, the level of play was pathetic. Despite your attempt to gloss over those facts by using player reputations, the truth is that those teams had off days and the Ravens played to their capability which was good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 35 minutes ago, Darth Pees said: Am I on Reddit or FootballsFuture? This is the single most hilariously trollish post I've ever seen on this site. Three penalities three separate years under Harbaugh for the essentially the same thing; not following OTA rules. Facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 14 minutes ago, El ramster said: Remember when the ravens were so good before. I do. I really do. Another franchise that had a great run but will spend the next 10 years as the new Browns along with the Browns. Yeah and I remember it was because of their defense constructed by Marvin Lewis and their offensive line assembled and established by Brian Billick. Under Harbaugh the last five years with all of those pieces gone, they are as medocre as their head coach, (40-40 regular season, six straight years without a playoff win). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, DoleINGout said: If you remember those games, the level of play was pathetic. Despite your attempt to gloss over those facts by using player reputations, the truth is that those teams had off days and the Ravens played to their capability which was good enough. Must be nice having "off days" and scoring 38, 28, and 34 points against us. The narrative has now shifted from poor competition to "actually they just had bad days". I'm excited to see what you come up with next! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, DoleINGout said: Yeah and I remember it was because of their defense constructed by Marvin Lewis and their offensive line assembled and established by Brian Billick. Under Harbaugh the last five years with all of those pieces gone, they are as medocre as their head coach, (40-40 regular season, six straight years without a playoff win). We beat the Steelers in the playoffs in 2014, we still have a top 5 statistical defense and a good offensive line........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 34 minutes ago, Darth Pees said: Must be nice having "off days" and scoring 38, 28, and 34 points against us. The narrative has now shifted from poor competition to "actually they just had bad days". I'm excited to see what you come up with next! The only narrative I'm using is that the players assembled with the defense implemented by Marvin Lewis is what carried the Ravens to two Super Bowl championships. The level of play in the 2012 AFC playoffs from all teams was subpar and the Ravens happened to be the one team that came out it after barely beating the Broncos in overtime. Aside from one unimpressive win against the Texans in Baltimore, the truth is that all of their playoff wins came in Harbaughs first five seasons as head coach after Billick and Lewis left the foundation in place. Harbaugh is essentially equivalent to Jason Garrett taking over after Bill Parcells. 32 minutes ago, Darth Pees said: We beat the Steelers in the playoffs in 2014, we still have a top 5 statistical defense and a good offensive line........ And Harbaugh is a competent enough coach to just make the Ravens not completely break apart like Josh McDaniels with the Broncos. I don't give him credit for being a very good head coach on his own nor do I respect him bery much due to his repeated violations and whinny attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom cody Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Not sure I agree with this, seems a bit harsh. A fine I think would suffice more than losing 2 ota practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, DoleINGout said: The only narrative I'm using is that the players assembled with the defense implemented by Marvin Lewis is what carried the Ravens to two Super Bowl championships. I don't think I have to make much of an argument that a defensive system implemented in 1996 isn't the same one used almost 20 years later by like the 5th-removed Defensive Coordinator from Marvin Lewis. 17 minutes ago, DoleINGout said: The level of play in the 2012 AFC playoffs from all teams was subpar and the Ravens happened to be the one team that came out it after barely beating the Broncos in overtime. Oh so now you're combining the two failed arguments of "weak competition" and "they had an off day" to be "it was weak competition and they didn't play well the entire postseason"? The Broncos scored 38 points in their one playoff game and lost because of one bad read on a hail mary. The Patriots scored 41 points against the Houston Texans the week before they played us. Keep digging, sooner or later you'll hit rock bottom. 17 minutes ago, DoleINGout said: Aside from one unimpressive win against the Texans in Baltimore, the truth is that all of their playoff wins came in Harbaughs first five seasons as head coach after Billick and Lewis left the foundation in place. Your infatuation with Marvin Lewis is actually getting uncomfortable, to be honest. Lewis left the Ravens in 2001, 7 years before Harbaugh got there. If you want to argue that someone laid a defensive foundation for us, you have to argue it was Rex Ryan, not Marvin Lewis. You're still forgetting our 2014 playoff win against the Steelers on the road... 17 minutes ago, DoleINGout said: Harbaugh is essentially equivalent to Jason Garrett taking over after Bill Parcells. Except for the fact that you're essentially saying Jason Garrett took over a Cowboys team that Jimmy Johnson laid the foundation to. Do you realize how insane that sounds? Also, Harbaugh has had much more success than Garrett, even after inheriting the team. Harbaugh is essentially Mike Tomlin, if you want to even go there. I'm not even a Harbaugh fan and even I realize how dumb this argument is. 17 minutes ago, DoleINGout said: I don't give him credit for being a very good head coach on his own nor do I respect him bery much due to his repeated violations and whinny attitude. Okay, that's your opinion and you're welcome to have it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 51 minutes ago, Darth Pees said: I don't think I have to make much of an argument that a defensive system implemented in 1996 isn't the same one used almost 20 years later by like the 5th-removed Defensive Coordinator from Marvin Lewis. I think you shouldn't assume that because Lewis got their in 1996 and left in 2002 that his players and system didn't remain a focal component of the Ravens defense. 53 minutes ago, Darth Pees said: Oh so now you're combining the two failed arguments of "weak competition" and "they had an off day" to be "it was weak competition and they didn't play well the entire postseason"? The Broncos scored 38 points in their one playoff game and lost because of one bad read on a hail mary. The Patriots scored 41 points against the Houston Texans the week before they played us. Keep digging, sooner or later you'll hit rock bottom. Your characterizations of my arguments are irrelevent to the discussion as they're a personal opinion and as such a bias. The general argument I made that the Ravens were carried over medocre-to-poor competition by mostly Marvin Lewis' defense is valid. Now look who is trying to be the narrator! The Colts were weak competition. The Patriots had a the unfortunate combination of not playing well and being beaten up by the Ravens defense again. As for the Pats wild card win over the Texans, that is a matchup they historically dominate, (Pats won 42-14 in week fourteen a month prior -- essentially the same Texans team who nearly beat the Ravens in 2014 with rookie TJ Yates starting). The 49ers were coached by John Harbaugh's brother of all people and managed to have a solid quarter or so of play in a Super Bowl with a huge, unprecedented delay. The matchup was in the Ravens favor as a run defending team considering the Niners were a run oriented offense, and that is a whole other discussion. The Broncos had a historic regular season in 2012 offensively and continued to produce in the playoffs despite committing three turnovers and fumbling one more time against the Ravens. The Broncos defense was not very good however at stopping the run and was susceptible to letting up big plays by their safeties which ultimately is what happened. The Ravens theme in all of their playoff wins was the players Lewis coached/courted causing turnovers and setting up their offense inside the opponents thirty yard-line. Check the statistics if you don't believe me or I will show them to you. 1 hour ago, Darth Pees said: Your infatuation with Marvin Lewis is actually getting uncomfortable, to be honest. Lewis left the Ravens in 2001, 7 years before Harbaugh got there. If you want to argue that someone laid a defensive foundation for us, you have to argue it was Rex Ryan, not Marvin Lewis. You're still forgetting our 2014 playoff win against the Steelers on the road... I made two mistakes which I appreciate you bringing to my attention. Yes, Lewis left in 2001 and not 2002, I honestly only remember him on the Ravens and then coaching the Bengals. Also, the defeat of the Steelers in 2014 is correct. However, Rex Ryan and Marvin Lewis coached three seasons together. Ryan was under Lewis as a defensive line coach but took over as I have alluded to in posts on the previous page in addition to you in this quote. As I have said, Ryan carried the principles Lewis taught him and imparted them on the guys after him in Baltimore. This is, as you know, a cosching tree. Similar ideaologies and philosophies passed on from cosch to cosch with slight variations generally in play calling. Here is another article from the Balitmore Sun in 2016 which opens with accolades for Marvin Lewis as the architect of the "modern day Ravens". Link. Your denial is impeccable, follow Ravens supporter. 1 hour ago, Darth Pees said: Except for the fact that you're essentially saying Jason Garrett took over a Cowboys team that Jimmy Johnson laid the foundation to. Do you realize how insane that sounds? Also, Harbaugh has had much more success than Garrett, even after inheriting the team. Harbaugh is essentially Mike Tomlin, if you want to even go there. I'm not even a Harbaugh fan and even I realize how dumb this argument is. That would be funny if you weren't completely changing the analogy to suit your desperate need here. Parcells, like Marvin Lewis to the Ravens, set the stage directly for the following head coach with players each coach recruited and developed. I'm comparing what were actual active players in an actual system for the same teams versus you lazily bringing up some former franchise member and trying skew the comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 minute ago, DoleINGout said: I think you shouldn't assume that because Lewis got their in 1996 and left in 2002 that his players and system didn't remain a focal component of the Ravens defense. Luckily, I'm not assuming. 1 minute ago, DoleINGout said: Your characterizations of my arguments are irrelevent to the discussion as they're a personal opinion and as such a bias. The general argument I made that the Ravens were carried over medocre-to-poor competition by mostly Marvin Lewis' defense is valid. Yep, you got me. We were carried past the Peyton Manning-led Broncos in 2012 and the Tom Brady-led Patriots and the #1 defense in the NFL along with Kaepernick at his height by a defensive system that hadn't been used in 11 years in our 2012 run. I mean, the evidence is overwhelming! Real playoff teams would've put up 40 points on us, not 38. 1 minute ago, DoleINGout said: Now look who is trying to be the narrator! The Colts were weak competition. The Patriots had a the unfortunate combination of not playing well and being beaten up by the Ravens defense again. As for the Pats wild card win over the Texans, that is a matchup they historically dominate, (Pats won 42-14 in week fourteen a month prior -- essentially the same Texans team who nearly beat the Ravens in 2014 with rookie TJ Yates starting). The 49ers were coached by John Harbaugh's brother of all people and managed to have a solid quarter or so of play in a Super Bowl with a huge, unprecedented delay. The matchup was in the Ravens favor as a run defending team considering the Niners were a run oriented offense, and that is a whole other discussion. The Broncos had a historic regular season in 2012 offensively and continued to produce in the playoffs despite committing three turnovers and fumbling one more time against the Ravens. The Broncos defense was not very good however at stopping the run and was susceptible to letting up big plays by their safeties which ultimately is what happened. Your argument here is basically not team is good because all teams have weaknesses, and also the Ravens aren't good because they beat teams with weaknesses. Holy crapI can't even keep up with the amount of logical fallacies on display here! Did the Ravens play good? Nope, they were carried by bad teams. Did those teams play bad? No, the Ravens outplayed them because they exploited their weaknesses. 1 minute ago, DoleINGout said: The Ravens theme in all of their playoff wins was the players Lewis coached/courted causing turnovers and setting up their offense inside the opponents thirty yard-line. Check the statistics if you don't believe me or I will show them to you. More imaginary stuff you're making up. The only player on the roster from Lewis' tenure is Ray Lewis. He had 0 sacks, 0 interceptions and 0 forced fumbles. Are you going to tell me that Terrell Suggs, drafted in 2003, was a Marvin Lewis draft pick now? Or are you going to tell me that Haloti Ngata, drafted in 2006, was a Marvin Lewis draft pick? Shoot, at this point you might as well just say Joe Flacco was a Marvin Lewis draft pick. It makes about as much sense as all other stuff you're saying here. 1 minute ago, DoleINGout said: I made two mistakes which I appreciate you bringing to my attention. Yes, Lewis left in 2001 and not 2002, I honestly only remember him on the Ravens and then coaching the Bengals. Also, the defeat of the Steelers in 2014 is correct. However, Rex Ryan and Marvin Lewis coached three seasons together. Ryan was under Lewis as a defensive line coach but took over as I have alluded to in posts on the previous page in addition to you in this quote. As I have said, Ryan carried the principles Lewis taught him and imparted them on the guys after him in Baltimore. This is, as you know, a cosching tree. Similar ideaologies and philosophies passed on from cosch to cosch with slight variations generally in play calling. Here is another article from the Balitmore Sun in 2016 which opens with accolades for Marvin Lewis as the architect of the "modern day Ravens". Link. Your denial is impeccable, follow Ravens supporter. It's actually pretty incredible that you took an article crediting Rex Ryan for how the defense looks and plays during that period and attributed it to Marvin Lewis. Kudos to you for again being the most flexible human being alive. 1 minute ago, DoleINGout said: That would be funny if you weren't completely changing the analogy to suit your desperate need here. Parcells, like Marvin Lewis to the Ravens, set the stage directly for the following head coach with players each coach recruited and developed. I'm comparing what were actual active players in an actual system for the same teams versus you lazily bringing up some former franchise member and trying skew the comparison. At this point, I don't think you actually have any idea what you're talking about, you're just trying to **** on the Ravens while giving Marvin Lewis credit for something he's had no business in for almost 20 years now. If you're not able to see the comparisons to Bill Cowher/Mike Tomlin and Brian Billick/John Harbaugh, I don't know what to tell you. You also seem to think that Marvin Lewis was involved in drafting players that arrived here years after he left....which is....truly something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 4 hours ago, El ramster said: Remember when the ravens were so good before. I do. I really do. Another franchise that had a great run but will spend the next 10 years as the new Browns along with the Browns. We're going to be 9 games worse? Dang, those were some critical OTA practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Darth Pees said: At this point, I don't think you actually have any idea what you're talking about, you're just trying to **** on the Ravens while giving Marvin Lewis credit for something he's had no business in for almost 20 years now. If you're not able to see the comparisons to Bill Cowher/Mike Tomlin and Brian Billick/John Harbaugh, I don't know what to tell you. You also seem to think that Marvin Lewis was involved in drafting players that arrived here years after he left....which is....truly something else. You incorrectly correlated Jimmie Johnson to Jason Garrett which is what I commented on, not Mike Tomlin/Bill Cowher. I'm giving credit to the defensive coordinator in Marvin Lewis who was responsible for turning the Ravens into the defensive dynasty they became and in turn Super Bowl champions. The articles I linked credit Lewis with laying the blueprint for the Ravens as recent as 2016. John Harbaugh is 40-40 in the last five seasons and hasn't been able to win a playoff game since the wild card round against the Steelers in 2014. Since Marvin Lewis and Rex Ryan's players have left, the Ravens have steadily declined. Ozzie Newsome has brought in CJ Mosley and Marlon Humphrey to anchor the defense now that Suggs is reaching the end of his career. I think Harbaugh has learned a lot from his time as head coach but he still only gets average production despite trying to bend the rules to his liking three times over. As another poster said, Harbaugh's insistence on physical practices could be a reason for the Ravens suffering injuries to their players during OTA's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Well dolei this was fun but if you'll excuse me, I think I'm just gonna go ram my head repeatedly into a wall rather than continue to lose brain cells reading your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Darth Pees said: Well dolei this was fun but if you'll excuse me, I think I'm just gonna go ram my head repeatedly into a wall rather than continue to lose brain cells reading your posts. Nice cop out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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