Update: Urban Meyer suspended 3 games

[ramssuperbowl99]

1 minute ago, JammerHammer21 said:

Urban also released it independently, and not through the university, which seems notable. Have to imagine that OSU would have done things differently, but Urban had lawyers write this up for him to release on his own.

That's the most important part of this. Urban and OSU released a joint statement Wednesday. Now Urban releases one on his own.

What changed?

[Raves]

18 minutes ago, IDOG_det said:

That statement, to me, looks like he's preparing to sue Ohio State if he gets fired. The language in his contract that could allow him to be fired is very vague on purpose. The university can use it against him if they want him out, they can use it for him if they get questioned on something they don't care about. By saying "my intention was not to say anything inaccurate or misleading", it looks like he's going to want to challenge the definition of the word "dishonest". That's the key word that could get him fired with cause. That word is also very vague, where do you draw the line between honest and dishonest? He would argue he didn't mean to lie, so he wasn't dishonest. OSU would argue that he lied multiple times and, essentially, said the story that he knew occurred was made up, so he was dishonest.

Also, by claiming that he knew and that he reported it, he's trying to pass the blame onto Gene Smith and Michael Drake. An NCAA investigation would then likely find them to be more responsible for Zach Smith if Urban had told them, had made a report, and left it up to them. Although, that would only be the case if he made a report every time an allegation was made (not just confined to the Zach Smith stuff, the NCAA would try to investigate everything to get an understanding of the culture they created in regard to how allegations are handled). If he contributed even a little bit to a culture that actively allows abusers to go unpunished he would likely be punished under a finding of lack of institutional control.

This looks like one big bargaining chip to me. He knows OSU can fire him if they want and they have a strong case to fire him with cause. He also probably knows that he can take down Gene Smith and Michael Drake with him if he wants to. Basically, to me it looks like Smith and Drake are probably negotiating how much of his $30 million buyout they need to pay to save their jobs.

 

14 minutes ago, IDOG_det said:

I have to assume that Ohio State keeps paper and electronic records of every report until any possible legal or NCAA statute of limitations expires. They would be idiots not to have those records. Gene Smith and Michael Drake may not want that to come out though, would likely shift the blame in the public eye onto them.

I'm not sure the NCAA would have a leg to stand on in this case, whether he reported or not, if Courtney Smith isn't protected by Title IX, though that obviously changes if she does fall under Title IX.  With Penn State IIRC the police weren't involved and weren't informed of the situation, then Penn State continued to provide a venue for Sandusky to commit his criminal acts.  At least with what has been reported none of the accusations took place on Ohio State campus or at Ohio State events, similar to the case with Colorado, unless of course the NCAA was/is investigating Colorado for virtually the same situation.

[JammerHammer21]

4 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

That's the most important part of this. Urban and OSU released a joint statement Wednesday. Now Urban releases one on his own.

What changed?

Just feels like Urban gearing up for war and saying to OSU that the ball is in their court now by now changing things to say he knew and reported it up the ladder.

[IDOG_det]

40 minutes ago, Raves said:

Yup, I was wrong.  Happy?

I don't want it to come off as if I was attacking you. I just think don't think it's fair to criticize a credible person like Brett McMurphy and accuse him of having bias when he clearly doesn't. It's not a good look. There is nothing to gain by attacking any person's credibility directly involved with this issue (the rando fan page people don't count). Doing so only comes off as trying to discredit this story in an attempt to make it go away, which is obviously wrong (and I know you know that).

[IDOG_det]

20 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Meh... I’m okay with Cain.

This is also a bad take.

[IDOG_det]

16 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

They probably keep them even longer. Electronic storage is almost free.

True. If this goes to an actual court at some point, we'll find out if there was a report. If they don't have records of the report to show? Well that wouldn't be good for the university in an NCAA investigation into their culture and compliance with Title IX...there's no way they don't have records of it. It would be so so so so so stupid not to have them.

[ramssuperbowl99]

5 minutes ago, JammerHammer21 said:

Just feels like Urban gearing up for war and saying to OSU that the ball is in their court now by now changing things to say he knew and reported it up the ladder.

Yep. He crossed the Rubicon and said "this can't be my fault". The obvious follow up question is, "so why was he still employed?"

 

[IDOG_det]

11 minutes ago, JammerHammer21 said:

Urban also released it independently, and not through the university, which seems notable. Have to imagine that OSU would have done things differently, but Urban had lawyers write this up for him to release on his own.

That makes big difference. Also could explain why it took a few days. Lawyers would need more than a few minutes to work out how they want to approach a lawsuit against the university if they fire him with cause. Attacking the vague use of the word "dishonest" is the legal approach. Discreetly threatening to take everyone down with you if they don't pay up is more of the mob-boss approach.

[Raves]

4 minutes ago, IDOG_det said:

I don't want it to come off as if I was attacking you. I just think don't think it's fair to criticize a credible person like Brett McMurphy and accuse him of having bias when he clearly doesn't. It's not a good look. There is nothing to gain by attacking any person's credibility directly involved with this issue (the rando fan page people don't count). Doing so only comes off as trying to discredit this story in an attempt to make it go away, which is obviously wrong (and I know you know that).

Nah I didn't take it that way.  I made a stupid comment and admitted I was wrong about it.  But there are definitely reporters/journalists that have agendas, and without actually looking into McMurphy I made my comments, just after having constantly hearing how some "journalists"/TV Personalities discussed the situation I was rubbed the wrong way as even now after Meyer's statement it's a little ridiculous.

So far it seems like even though Meyer admitted that he knew, gave whatever explanation for the media day, and said he reported it, which without there being proof is just a death sentence, they are still going full force at him with pitchforks.  I understand peoples issues with the moral/ethical issue of keeping someone accused of domestic violence on the staff, but if that's the case numerous NFL organizations need to start firing people for bringing in players actually convicted of domestic violence.

Just now, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Yep. He crossed the Rubicon and said "this can't be my fault". The obvious follow up question is, "so why was he still employed?"

 

Probably because an accusation with the police not investigating/not pressing charges isn't enough proof to justify the firing at the time and decided to take him at his word that he didn't strike her?

[IDOG_det]

15 minutes ago, Raves said:

 

I'm not sure the NCAA would have a leg to stand on in this case, whether he reported or not, if Courtney Smith isn't protected by Title IX, though that obviously changes if she does fall under Title IX.  With Penn State IIRC the police weren't involved and weren't informed of the situation, then Penn State continued to provide a venue for Sandusky to commit his criminal acts.  At least with what has been reported none of the accusations took place on Ohio State campus or at Ohio State events, similar to the case with Colorado, unless of course the NCAA was/is investigating Colorado for virtually the same situation.

eh, the NCAA doesn't really need a leg to stand on though. They wouldn't be punishing them in a court of law, they would punish them for violating their rulebook. They wouldn't need a level of burden of proof needed to get a criminal conviction, they would just have to not like what they see in an investigation. And they can investigate pretty much whenever they want. In order to be in the NCAA you have to agree to their rules and the NCAA basically put rules in place that make them like the head of a cartel. The power they have over schools, administrators, coaches, athletes, etc is crazy and extensive.

They may have a hard time placing blame on Urban Meyer if they solely looked at it from a compliance/Title IX perspective (assuming he filed a report as he has stated, if he didn't then it would be easy). They could still rope him in with a lack of institutional control because it would be impossible to say that he had zero influence on the athletics culture at Ohio State. BUT, all of that would only matter if he's not fired by the time the NCAA can finish an investigation. I honestly doubt OSU doesn't fire him at this point. Even if it's just a desperation move by Gene Smith to try and save his job and make Urban Meyer actually sue Ohio State over his buyout. It would be really hard not to fire him because you guarantee a deep investigation the NCAA (better make sure you hide any skeletons you have laying around) and you guarantee a ridiculous amount of backlash from the public.

[buno67]

The only thing I could see what Urbz held onto Zach so long was because they are pretty much family. Like Urbz has said, Bruce was one of the biggest influences in his life. So he was prolly extremely close to the family. So he was prolly like an uncle to Zach. Sometimes you turn the blind eye or give your family members benefit of the doubt for their issues big or small. 

That’s the only way I could see why Urbz held onto him for so long 

[Raves]

1 minute ago, IDOG_det said:

eh, the NCAA doesn't really need a leg to stand on though. They wouldn't be punishing them in a court of law, they would punish them for violating their rulebook. They wouldn't need a level of burden of proof needed to get a criminal conviction, they would just have to not like what they see in an investigation. And they can investigate pretty much whenever they want. In order to be in the NCAA you have to agree to their rules and the NCAA basically put rules in place that make them like the head of a cartel. The power they have over schools, administrators, coaches, athletes, etc is crazy and extensive.

They may have a hard time placing blame on Urban Meyer if they solely looked at it from a compliance/Title IX perspective (assuming he filed a report as he has stated, if he didn't then it would be easy). They could still rope him in with a lack of institutional control because it would be impossible to say that he had zero influence on the athletics culture at Ohio State. BUT, all of that would only matter if he's not fired by the time the NCAA can finish an investigation. I honestly doubt OSU doesn't fire him at this point. Even if it's just a desperation move by Gene Smith to try and save his job and make Urban Meyer actually sue Ohio State over his buyout. It would be really hard not to fire him because you guarantee a deep investigation the NCAA (better make sure you hide any skeletons you have laying around) and you guarantee a ridiculous amount of backlash from the public.

I guess I'm just confused on where the lack of institutional control would've happened if it's not a Title IX/compliance issue.  Also if the NCAA didn't find any extra skeletons during the Tressel investigation or the currently ongoing investigation to the coaches/doctors or wahtever, then I doubt they need to worry about adding on additional ones from football this time.

[BobbyPhil1781]

Just now, buno67 said:

The only thing I could see what Urbz held onto Zach so long was because they are pretty much family. Like Urbz has said, Bruce was one of the biggest influences in his life. So he was prolly extremely close to the family. So he was prolly like an uncle to Zach. Sometimes you turn the blind eye or give your family members benefit of the doubt for their issues big or small. 

That’s the only way I could see why Urbz held onto him for so long 

Zach said in the interview that it was clear: Urban asked him what happened, Zach said what he said and Urban said if he found out differently, he was absolutely gone that instant. Urban found out, Zach was fired, and here we are. 

[IDOG_det]

8 minutes ago, Raves said:

I guess I'm just confused on where the lack of institutional control would've happened if it's not a Title IX/compliance issue.  Also if the NCAA didn't find any extra skeletons during the Tressel investigation or the currently ongoing investigation to the coaches/doctors or wahtever, then I doubt they need to worry about adding on additional ones from football this time.

You don't have to outright violate compliance yourself to be roped into it if you were one of the main contributors to the culture that led to those violations. At least, that's how I've been taught to understand it. Perhaps it's something that the NCAA wouldn't pursue or so rare that it's safe to assume it won't happen. Either way, it would only be something they pursue after a long investigation if Urban Meyer isn't fired in the coming days. 

[Raves]

13 minutes ago, IDOG_det said:

You don't have to outright violate compliance yourself to be roped into it if you were one of the main contributors to the culture that led to those violations. At least, that's how I've been taught to understand it. Perhaps it's something that the NCAA wouldn't pursue or so rare that it's safe to assume it won't happen. Either way, it would only be something they pursue after a long investigation if Urban Meyer isn't fired in the coming days. 

But once again, what violations did this culture did it contribute to based on the current status of the situation? 

If there are no violations how can you investigate the culture allowed it to happen.  Now if there were other situations where Ohio State knew of allegations with the football team and then didnt act on them, then you would have something.  If you want to discuss the other issues going on, then thats on Gene Smith not Urban Meyer as it is based on various sports not just football.

So I think this puts Smith at more risk of being fired than Meyer now.