Cyprien to miss multiple weeks

[titans0021]

14 minutes ago, Titan89 said:

Cyprien had one game in a Titans uniform and didn't play great against possibly the best or most balanced offense in the NFL. Yet people are calling for his head.

Mainly because he's always been a bad football player. And PFF somehow fooled people into believing otherwise. Jaguars fans were actively disappointed when they found out he was going to miss yesterday's game. They celebrated replacing him with Barry Church. This isn't really about just how absolutely horrific he was against the Raiders, it's that he's just not a good football player and we have players that are better than him at the things he's supposed to be good at. I'd rather have Jayon Brown play in the box and I have a lot more faith in his ability to come up and make a tackle short of the sticks. I'd certainly rather have Curtis Riley (or Searcy or Kalan Reed) in coverage than ever asking Cyprien to play pass defense.

For some, admittedly, it may be an overreaction to Week 1. For me, it's more that Week 1 was just further confirmation of every single thing I hated about the signing from the moment it was made. I just don't think he has value in today's NFL. 

I've just legitimately never read anything positive about Cyprien that didn't reference his 2016 PFF grade. It seems like every opinion of him that isn't negative just comes back to a PFF grade, ranking or stat. And I have no interest in trusting PFF over the guys on this site that understand football and had to watch him negatively impact games for four years. It'd be like if Michael Griffin had a good PFF grade and a fanbase entirely ignored what we said about him to focus exclusively on a positive run grade.

TL/DR: I'm not sure that Week 1 Cyprien is that much different than 2013-2016 Cyprien. Maybe it was him bottoming out, but I doubt think what he showed last week was that much worse than what he's done for the majority of his career.

[ragevsuall17]

57 minutes ago, titans0021 said:

Mainly because he's always been a bad football player. And PFF somehow fooled people into believing otherwise. Jaguars fans were actively disappointed when they found out he was going to miss yesterday's game. They celebrated replacing him with Barry Church. This isn't really about just how absolutely horrific he was against the Raiders, it's that he's just not a good football player and we have players that are better than him at the things he's supposed to be good at. I'd rather have Jayon Brown play in the box and I have a lot more faith in his ability to come up and make a tackle short of the sticks. I'd certainly rather have Curtis Riley (or Searcy or Kalan Reed) in coverage than ever asking Cyprien to play pass defense.

For some, admittedly, it may be an overreaction to Week 1. For me, it's more that Week 1 was just further confirmation of every single thing I hated about the signing from the moment it was made. I just don't think he has value in today's NFL. 

I've just legitimately never read anything positive about Cyprien that didn't reference his 2016 PFF grade. It seems like every opinion of him that isn't negative just comes back to a PFF grade, ranking or stat. And I have no interest in trusting PFF over the guys on this site that understand football and had to watch him negatively impact games for four years. It'd be like if Michael Griffin had a good PFF grade and a fanbase entirely ignored what we said about him to focus exclusively on a positive run grade.

TL/DR: I'm not sure that Week 1 Cyprien is that much different than 2013-2016 Cyprien. Maybe it was him bottoming out, but I doubt think what he showed last week was that much worse than what he's done for the majority of his career.

Forget the rest of us.  Do you think PFF fooled JRob?  I don't think anyone here was 100% behind the Cyprien signing.. but JRob was.  He was one of his first signings, so we can deduce that it may have been a priority (all the while knowing that we'd probably have our pick of whichever safety we wanted in the draft, if we wanted to go that route).  

When the signing was announced and I scoured the internet, and saw some rating from Football Outsiders that had him rated highly both in '15 and '16 (had him rated higher in '15 actually).  It was a few months back, but I think it was FO.

And from Jags fans themselves... they admitted his coverage was subpar, some said horrible, even... and said he would have times where he would go for the big hit and not wrap up when tackling... but also said that for the most part he was a good tackler.  That's what made his week 1 performance so strange... he failed at something that he was previously good at.  

[titans0021]

1 minute ago, ragevsuall17 said:

And from Jags fans themselves... they admitted his coverage was subpar, some said horrible, even... and said he would have times where he would go for the big hit and not wrap up when tackling... but also said that for the most part he was a good tackler.

I've seen a lot of Jags fans say that he would flash the ability to be a good tackler, but would also fail with regularity. Which man, if that's the best you can say for a player (that he's terrible at one part of his job and sometimes alright at the other aspect), that's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

2 minutes ago, ragevsuall17 said:

Forget the rest of us.  Do you think PFF fooled JRob?

Honestly? Maybe. I like J-Rob and trust the direction this organization is heading, but it's not like he hasn't missed. We spent a top 35 pick on a guy that doesn't fit our scheme in any way. Another top 45 pick played 23 snaps yesterday. Signed Sean Spence, Antwon Blake and Rashad Johnson to play real roles for the team last year. And free agency this season isn't exactly off to an impressive start. That's truly not an attempt to dismiss everything positive he's done for the team, just to note that he's certainly capable of making poor moves.

I still just can't figure out the signing. For a variety of reasons. One being that I honestly believe that he's just a bad football player. The other main one being that I don't know why we thought we needed to add a pure strong safety. If we were so locked into Byard playing FS, I would much rather have paid Tony Jefferson big money.

[ragevsuall17]

5 hours ago, titans0021 said:

6 hours ago, ragevsuall17 said:

Forget the rest of us.  Do you think PFF fooled JRob?

Honestly? Maybe. I like J-Rob and trust the direction this organization is heading, but it's not like he hasn't missed. We spent a top 35 pick on a guy that doesn't fit our scheme in any way. Another top 45 pick played 23 snaps yesterday. Signed Sean Spence, Antwon Blake and Rashad Johnson to play real roles for the team last year. And free agency this season isn't exactly off to an impressive start. That's truly not an attempt to dismiss everything positive he's done for the team, just to note that he's certainly capable of making poor moves.

I still just can't figure out the signing. For a variety of reasons. One being that I honestly believe that he's just a bad football player. The other main one being that I don't know why we thought we needed to add a pure strong safety. If we were so locked into Byard playing FS, I would much rather have paid Tony Jefferson big money.

If you think JRob is using something as silly as PFF to scout players, then I just don't know what to tell you.  The Titans have millions of dollars invested in scouting... both pro and college levels.  Every team misses, every team finds gems... its not a science, it's the nature of the sport.  PFF, Football Outsiders, and other sites like them are 100% for fans like us... Maybe it helps a color commentator put a number on a guy (esp hard to quantify guys like OL)...Not gms

For most posters on here, JRob poops gold nuggets.  But when you look at his track record of signings, it paints a slightly different picture.  Not only those that you mentioned from last year... there's Cyprien, Williams, Lelito, etc from this year. 

With so many "misses", and a piss poor coaching staff... it's hard to imagine any team going from 2 wins to 9 wins to an almost consensus pre-season playoff team.  

[titans0021]

I don't think he legit signed him based on a PFF grade, but I am left to wonder if it was a reputation-based signing. Much like how the Saints signed Adrian Peterson despite the fact that he was never a Payton style back even before he was aging and coming off missing a year.

[TitanSS]

I liked the signing because I honestly believed he would be used as a nickel LB and around the LOS. I think with the weaknesses he has in coverage and the fact we will have to hide him when he's on the field, it was foolish of me to be as for the signing as I was. I think PFF had something to do with it, but I was far from expecting him to be good in coverage because he was graded highly. I just thought he'd be a valuable piece at the LOS.

[titans0021]

1 hour ago, TitanSS said:

I liked the signing because I honestly believed he would be used as a nickel LB and around the LOS. I think with the weaknesses he has in coverage and the fact we will have to hide him when he's on the field, it was foolish of me to be as for the signing as I was. I think PFF had something to do with it, but I was far from expecting him to be good in coverage because he was graded highly. I just thought he'd be a valuable piece at the LOS.

See, I can understand this argument. And to be fair, without Jayon Brown, I think I could still see some support for seeing what Cyprien has to offer. But at this point (and I know it's way too early to be saying this), it looks like we might have a legit nickel backer. Which really makes paying Cyprien over $6 million per pretty tough to swallow.

[TitanLegend]

I mean you can blame PFF all you want but Cyprien has always been a solid guy against the run, and a sure tackler. Again, the guy missed all of 4 tackles last year. I think he matched that against the Raiders.

Extremely disappointing but it seems ridiculous to accept that as Cyprien's norm rather than just a really bad game for him, in regards to playing the run/tackling. I know comparing preseason to regular season is apples to oranges but Logan Ryan got absolutely abused by some receiver for the Jets nobody has ever heard of in his first game as a Titan but ever since then(including pre-season and now regular season) QBs practically refuse to throw at the guy.

In regards to being upset at paying 6 mil a year for him, I don't really find that as a big deal either. The Titans FO has done a really good job of managing the cap for years now, and that's continued under JRob. Even if Cyprien becomes a total flop and his Raiders performance is his norm or close to, according to overthecap he can be cut and while it'd hurt our cap for this season, for 2018 and beyond we'd gain cap space and be fine.

Maybe Robinson saw something in Cyprien he liked and thought he could use and maybe that ends up being wrong, but it's not really much harm/foul in regards to cap.

Regardless the past few off seasons have been (mostly) about building the offense around Mariota. Conklin, Henry, Taylor, Davis, Smith, Decker, (Ben) Jones, the defense has kinda been ignored. Dodd was picked but even if Dodd didn't suck the guy was going to be a bench guy for at least the next few years cause Orakpo and Morgan run the show at OLB and will for another season or two. Jackson and Ryan are the only real "huge" investments in to the defense under Robinson, at least in terms of immediate impact, and they've worked out so far, and it looks like Robinson found a potential gem in LeShaun Sims.

I think given the o-line seems good to go for a while(a new guard might be brought in but honestly I don't see the point. Kline has dominated to start the year but even if he "regresses" to last years play, he's fine, and Spain is solid at LG) and we've got weapons for Mariota, next year could be where we look for that missing piece on defense.

The potential issue at strong safety aside, I would really like to see another great d-lineman brought in to pair with Casey. Jones is fine, Williams has been fine in his few snaps, Johnson is fine, Klug is good as a rotational guy, etc, but I want someone better than fine on the line with Casey. I want a guy that makes the o-line think something other than "double Casey, chip Orakpo/Morgan and we're fine". Bring in a Bennie Logan or Dontari Poe potentially, or find someone in the draft like a Trenton Thompson.

We've got a nice front 7, but I want a dominant one. Assuming the Ryan/Jackson/Sims trio continues to work out at corner(McCain is fine as a #4, or replace him, doesn't really matter), Byard continues his development at FS, and either Cyprien gets his head out of his *** or we find someone else for SS, our secondary should be fine.

What LeBeau could do with a dominant front 7 would be a lot of fun to see, his exotic blitzes would be that much more effective.

[-Hope-]

6 hours ago, TitanLegend said:

I mean you can blame PFF all you want but Cyprien has always been a solid guy against the run, and a sure tackler. Again, the guy missed all of 4 tackles last year. I think he matched that against the Raiders.

Extremely disappointing but it seems ridiculous to accept that as Cyprien's norm rather than just a really bad game for him, in regards to playing the run/tackling. I know comparing preseason to regular season is apples to oranges but Logan Ryan got absolutely abused by some receiver for the Jets nobody has ever heard of in his first game as a Titan but ever since then(including pre-season and now regular season) QBs practically refuse to throw at the guy.

In regards to being upset at paying 6 mil a year for him, I don't really find that as a big deal either. The Titans FO has done a really good job of managing the cap for years now, and that's continued under JRob. Even if Cyprien becomes a total flop and his Raiders performance is his norm or close to, according to overthecap he can be cut and while it'd hurt our cap for this season, for 2018 and beyond we'd gain cap space and be fine.

Maybe Robinson saw something in Cyprien he liked and thought he could use and maybe that ends up being wrong, but it's not really much harm/foul in regards to cap.

Regardless the past few off seasons have been (mostly) about building the offense around Mariota. Conklin, Henry, Taylor, Davis, Smith, Decker, (Ben) Jones, the defense has kinda been ignored. Dodd was picked but even if Dodd didn't suck the guy was going to be a bench guy for at least the next few years cause Orakpo and Morgan run the show at OLB and will for another season or two. Jackson and Ryan are the only real "huge" investments in to the defense under Robinson, at least in terms of immediate impact, and they've worked out so far, and it looks like Robinson found a potential gem in LeShaun Sims.

I think given the o-line seems good to go for a while(a new guard might be brought in but honestly I don't see the point. Kline has dominated to start the year but even if he "regresses" to last years play, he's fine, and Spain is solid at LG) and we've got weapons for Mariota, next year could be where we look for that missing piece on defense.

The potential issue at strong safety aside, I would really like to see another great d-lineman brought in to pair with Casey. Jones is fine, Williams has been fine in his few snaps, Johnson is fine, Klug is good as a rotational guy, etc, but I want someone better than fine on the line with Casey. I want a guy that makes the o-line think something other than "double Casey, chip Orakpo/Morgan and we're fine". Bring in a Bennie Logan or Dontari Poe potentially, or find someone in the draft like a Trenton Thompson.

We've got a nice front 7, but I want a dominant one. Assuming the Ryan/Jackson/Sims trio continues to work out at corner(McCain is fine as a #4, or replace him, doesn't really matter), Byard continues his development at FS, and either Cyprien gets his head out of his *** or we find someone else for SS, our secondary should be fine.

What LeBeau could do with a dominant front 7 would be a lot of fun to see, his exotic blitzes would be that much more effective.

yup, i think next year's draft should be pretty heavy on front 7. probably some help at safety too

[titans0021]

9 hours ago, TitanLegend said:

Again, the guy missed all of 4 tackles last year. I think he matched that against the Raiders.

I've genuinely always wondered how they define a missed tackle. Is it like an official drop, where it has to be an incredibly blatant miss for it to be credited?

9 hours ago, TitanLegend said:

In regards to being upset at paying 6 mil a year for him, I don't really find that as a big deal either.

For me, it really has nothing to do with cap concerns. Obviously we're in fine shape when it comes to the cap, his contract obviously isn't going to cripple us long-term. It's more than we were clearly hesitant to spend a significant amount of money in FA, and decided to allocate over $6 million of it annually to a guy who, at his best, still can't play the pass in a league that throws the ball 57-60% of the time. Add that to the $5.25 million per year we're giving Sylvester, and you're talking about signing a potential impact player rather than two pretty flawed football players.

3 hours ago, -Hope- said:

Regardless the past few off seasons have been (mostly) about building the offense around Mariota. Conklin, Henry, Taylor, Davis, Smith, Decker, (Ben) Jones, the defense has kinda been ignored. Dodd was picked but even if Dodd didn't suck the guy was going to be a bench guy for at least the next few years cause Orakpo and Morgan run the show at OLB and will for another season or two. Jackson and Ryan are the only real "huge" investments in to the defense under Robinson, at least in terms of immediate impact, and they've worked out so far, and it looks like Robinson found a potential gem in LeShaun Sims.

I think given the o-line seems good to go for a while(a new guard might be brought in but honestly I don't see the point. Kline has dominated to start the year but even if he "regresses" to last years play, he's fine, and Spain is solid at LG) and we've got weapons for Mariota, next year could be where we look for that missing piece on defense.

The potential issue at strong safety aside, I would really like to see another great d-lineman brought in to pair with Casey. Jones is fine, Williams has been fine in his few snaps, Johnson is fine, Klug is good as a rotational guy, etc, but I want someone better than fine on the line with Casey. I want a guy that makes the o-line think something other than "double Casey, chip Orakpo/Morgan and we're fine". Bring in a Bennie Logan or Dontari Poe potentially, or find someone in the draft like a Trenton Thompson.

We've got a nice front 7, but I want a dominant one. Assuming the Ryan/Jackson/Sims trio continues to work out at corner(McCain is fine as a #4, or replace him, doesn't really matter), Byard continues his development at FS, and either Cyprien gets his head out of his *** or we find someone else for SS, our secondary should be fine.

What LeBeau could do with a dominant front 7 would be a lot of fun to see, his exotic blitzes would be that much more effective.

The rest of this I agree with. Robinson, and rightly so, clearly came into the job with the idea of giving Mariota every chance to succeed. And to his credit, he's done a pretty damn good job in that department.

[TitanSS]

The passing league becomes a lot more difficult to pass when you can't run the ball. I have no problem with us trying to sure up the run defense. We may not have given up a lot of rushing yards last year, but I believe we allowed 4.0 ypc (fact check me) and there were a number of times we couldn't stop teams from running when they had a lead at the end of the game, as we saw this year with the Raiders. Cyprien was not what I want and Williams may be overpaid, but I don't question the idea of getting stronger against the run.