turtle28 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: Gettleman gave him an immensely talented roster. And I believe that both sides play a part in things- the front office obviously has to get the talent on the team, and the coaches have to coach them up. There isn't just one red flag for Rivera, there are a lot of them, and all of what I'm hearing from him is that he's good with discipline and the players. I'm not hearing that he's got the greatest coaching tree, or that he isn't avoid to hire outside of his base to innovate. I'm looking at a sub .500 record following his best season, despite some good talent on the roster. Is there any consistency in the approach without consecutive winning seasons, or a 33% winning season shot? And to hear that Snyder is also backing up a Brinks truck for him? Hell, if you are going to back up the Brinks truck, let's get a young, hot shot guy in here to write his own legacy. Cherry picking isn’t helping your argument. I mean throw out Shanahan’s two super bowl seasons and he’s not a good coach either. That’s a ridiculous point to make. You can’t just throw out a 15-1 season and other winning seasons and act like they didn’t happen bc they did. Again, w/o the coach they don't win those games. Rivera developed all those players. They all love him bc he develops a winning culture, demands respect and has accountability. It's everything we as a fanbase have called for for years. I mean Gettleman must have liked Rivera as a HC, he retained him as his HC throughout the entire time he was GM of the Panthers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Cherry picking isn’t helping your argument. I mean throw out Shanahan’s two super bowl seasons and he’s not a good coach either. That’s a ridiculous point to make. You can’t just throw out a 15-1 season and other winning seasons and act like they didn’t happen bc they did. Again, w/o the coach they don't win those games. Rivera developed all those players. They all love him bc he develops a winning culture, demands respect and has accountability. It's everything we as a fanbase have called for for years. I mean Gettleman must have liked Rivera as a HC, he retained him as his HC throughout the entire time he was GM of the Panthers. I didn't say throw out the 15-1 season. I don't cherry pick stats like that, I even said that I don't. I counted all of his seasons together except when I mentioned I was looking at the last four seasons as an indicator of how things are going, as I normally look at a 3-4 year window for evaluations (whether it's an exercise like this, fantasy sports, etc.) . And I get all of those things, but despite what Rivera is credited for, developing a winning culture isn't that. Three of nine winning seasons, and not one consecutive winning season, is Bruce Allen levels of bad. Yes, he demands respect and has accountability, but the Panthers were not the embodiment of winning during his time there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: I didn't say throw out the 15-1 season. I don't cherry pick stats like that, I even said that I don't. I counted all of his seasons together except when I mentioned I was looking at the last four seasons as an indicator of how things are going, as I normally look at a 3-4 year window for evaluations (whether it's an exercise like this, fantasy sports, etc.) . And I get all of those things, but despite what Rivera is credited for, developing a winning culture isn't that. Three of nine winning seasons, and not one consecutive winning season, is Bruce Allen levels of bad. Yes, he demands respect and has accountability, but the Panthers were not the embodiment of winning during his time there. So you're going to also ignore the injuries to Cam Newton? I mean it's a reasonable point to make that Can Newton's injuries cost Rivera his job. If Cam had been healthy last year and this year they're at worst .500 the last two years. I put everything into an evaluation too and it's blatantly obvious that the team took a downturn when Cam started getting hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, turtle28 said: So you're going to also ignore the injuries to Cam Newton? I mean it's a reasonable point to make that Can Newton's injuries cost Rivera his job. If Cam had been healthy last year and this year they're at worst .500 the last two years. I put everything into an evaluation too and it's blatantly obvious that the team took a downturn when Cam started getting hurt. If one guy's injuries makes your team lose to the 2019 Redskins, you aren't that good of a coach. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, turtle28 said: So you're going to also ignore the injuries to Cam Newton? I mean it's a reasonable point to make that Can Newton's injuries cost Rivera his job. If Cam had been healthy last year and this year they're at worst .500 the last two years. I put everything into an evaluation too and it's blatantly obvious that the team took a downturn when Cam started getting hurt. Yeah, it's a good possibility that it happened. However, they were in the same situation like us last year, starting 6-2 and then losing the starting QB. Both coaches got an extra year. Jay Gruden was terrible. Meanwhile, Rivera turned in a 5-7 season before he got fired, getting a decent season out of UDFA Kyle Allen in the process. So either the new-ish owner wanted to go in a new direction, or there is something else at play here that isn't being reported. Honestly, as much as I am criticizing Rivera here, 5-7 with Kyle Allen is not a bad look and would probably be enough to once again amend the goal for the team. So again, not knowing what else might be at play here is really disconcerting for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, Woz said: If one guy's injuries makes your team lose to the 2019 Redskins, you aren't that good of a coach. There's that too. Especially if the OC is the former head coach of said Redskins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Woz said: If one guy's injuries makes your team lose to the 2019 Redskins, you aren't that good of a coach. Wow, great analysis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: There's that too. Especially if the OC is the former head coach of said Redskins. Who has been known around the entire league as one of the best offensive minds for nearly 30 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: Yeah, it's a good possibility that it happened. However, they were in the same situation like us last year, starting 6-2 and then losing the starting QB. Both coaches got an extra year. Jay Gruden was terrible. Meanwhile, Rivera turned in a 5-7 season before he got fired, getting a decent season out of UDFA Kyle Allen in the process. So either the new-ish owner wanted to go in a new direction, or there is something else at play here that isn't being reported. Honestly, as much as I am criticizing Rivera here, 5-7 with Kyle Allen is not a bad look and would probably be enough to once again amend the goal for the team. So again, not knowing what else might be at play here is really disconcerting for me. I seriously doubt there's something nefarious going on behind the scenes about why he was fired. Its probably as simple as the new owner is like any other typical billionaire, he has a massive ego and wants his own guy as the HC so he gets all of the credit for hiring him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Who has been known around the entire league as one of the best offensive minds for nearly 30 years. Who hasn't really innovated offensively since he was here with the Redskins. After the Chargers, a team loaded with talent, his offensive rankings have been dreadful. Greg Manusky has better defensive rankings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 25 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Wow, great analysis What, I cannot snark? C'mon now! Honestly I don't know I feel about Rivera. On one hand, I do think his fire might be what the team needs. On the other, I worry they're grasping for him without thinking of a larger strategy. One of my current coworkers is a Panthers fan and she has been quite upset with how McCaffrey wasn't being utilized effectively down the stretch. Is Rivera the best obvious name? Perhaps. But is he the best possible choice? I don't know, but locking in fast makes for no chance to evaluate all options. I do think that Snyder is trying to avoid a 2008-end-up-with-Zorn fiasco, but that might be focusing on the wrong lesson of history. I do agree with @naptownskinsfan in that the fact they don't have a GM before going with Rivera is ungood. Especially if that means he is going to have final say over draft picks and free agents. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezy Fanatic Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 We’ve removed the cancer, but still have an owner dropping toxic chemicals into our water supply. I’m not excited today either. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Jeezy Fanatic said: We’ve removed the cancer, but still have an owner dropping toxic chemicals into our water supply. I’m not excited today either. I get it, but if that's the measuring stick for being even just a little excited as a Redskins fan then your not going to be happy for another 30 to 40 years. Edited December 31, 2019 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezy Fanatic Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 19 minutes ago, turtle28 said: I get it, but if that's the measuring stick for being even just a little excited as a Redskins fan then your not going to be happy for another 30 to 40 years. Yup - that sounds about right to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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