TL-TwoWinsAway Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) CAUTION: this thread may contain discussion. If you hate discussing things, this may not be the safe space for you. I've given a lot of thought to the debate surrounding "tanking" (i.e., intentionally not trying to win to attempt to gain something of value), and I'd like to ask some of our reasonable, knowledgeable posters a series of questions about the topic. (I'd like to keep this civil. I do think there's a reasonable discussion to be had.) Q1: are there any Lions' fans here that wanted us to beat the Packers during Week 17? If so, why? If not, why not? Q2: does this mentality also hold true for our week 16 game against the Broncos? Is there anyone that feels it would have been better for the franchise, all things considered, had our 3-10-1 team managed to win that week? Edited January 11, 2020 by TL-TwoWinsAway Added Q2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionized Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: CAUTION: this thread may contain discussion. If you hate discussing things, this may not be the safe space for you. I've given a lot of thought to the debate surrounding "tanking" (i.e., intentionally not trying to win to attempt to gain something of value), and I'd like to ask some of our reasonable, knowledgeable posters a series of questions about the topic. (I'd like to keep this civil. I do think there's a reasonable discussion to be had.) Q1: are there any Lions' fans here that wanted us to beat the Packers during Week 17? If so, why? If not, why not? A1: Heck no!!!! Also, I’m going to be boosting your community reputation. I do not have time to counter other posters and you make a lot of the same points I agree with. Keep it up! Edited January 5, 2020 by Lionized 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nnivolcm Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 I wanted both teams to lose. I wanted the Lions to lose more. I don't think Patricia or Quinn were intentionally tanking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 34 minutes ago, Lionized said: A1: Heck no!!!! Also, I’m going to be boosting your community reputation. I do not have time to counter other posters and you make a lot of the same points I agree with. Keep it up! Answer received. And thanks man. I think the player we take 3rd overall will have a significant impact on this franchise. 3-12-1 wasn't fun, but there may be a silver lining in it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detroitroar Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 I wanted us to play well. I wanted our young safety tandem to play well and show promise. I thought they did. I was Amani would show more signs of him being an absolute steal. I thought he did. On and on I can go. I cant separate this from wanting to win unless I name players i want to play bad. Doesnt make sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, detroitroar said: I wanted us to play well. I wanted our young safety tandem to play well and show promise. I thought they did. I was Amani would show more signs of him being an absolute steal. I thought he did. On and on I can go. I cant separate this from wanting to win unless I name players i want to play bad. Doesnt make sense to me. I'm not sure I understand. I get that you wanted players to play well, but, for the sake of this conversation: did you want the team to beat the Packers during week 17? (It's possible for players to still play well and lose the game. That was my hope for this one, and it happened to work out.) Edited January 5, 2020 by TL-TwoWinsAway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detroitroar Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 44 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: I'm not sure I understand. I get that you wanted players to play well, but, for the sake of this conversation: did you want the team to beat the Packers during week 17? (It's possible for players to still play well and lose the game. That was my hope for this one, and it happened to work out.) No it's not. Who did you want to not play well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 26 minutes ago, detroitroar said: No it's not. Who did you want to not play well? No one. I wanted our players to play well. I wanted our team to lose. (It was far better for the franchise if we lost.) You can achieve both. If you have a lesser team, you can both play reasonably well and lose. We did just that, and did it well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detroitroar Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 1 hour ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: No one. I wanted our players to play well. I wanted our team to lose. (It was far better for the franchise if we lost.) You can achieve both. If you have a lesser team, you can both play reasonably well and lose. We did just that, and did it well. I completely disagree. Every player cant play well and you lose. Impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detroitroar Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 From what I saw from our defense towards the end, is that if they can 2 to 3 good players up front and make some coaching adjustments, along with better luck injury wise, they can realistically be a top 10 defense again next year. My humble opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 21 minutes ago, detroitroar said: I completely disagree. Every player cant play well and you lose. Impossible. Interesting. Isn't it possible for your players to play well, for the (significantly better) opposing players to also play well, and for the opposing team to win? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 For those that answered Q1 by saying that they wanted the Lions to lose week 17: why? What benefit did the team gain by losing week 17? Is there anyone here that would argue that no benefit was gained by them losing week 17? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 3 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: Answer received. And thanks man. I think the player we take 3rd overall will have a significant impact on this franchise. 3-12-1 wasn't fun, but there may be a silver lining in it all. I thought that QB we took at #1 would change our franchise. Then I thought that WR we took at #2 was all we needed, and then the DT we took at #2 the next year I thought was the difference maker. None of that worked out, and honestly this team feels about as far away as those teams. It really doesn’t feel close to me. We will be losing quite a bit. We will have to hope Stafford is healthy and remains healthy. We will need to sign a bunch of free agents to fill holes because we can’t fill them all through the draft and I don’t trust Quinn to do that. To answer your first question, I wanted to lose week 17 for the better pick because I know higher picks in each round can help you improve more. That being said I still dont trust those in place to make those decisions and I don’t trust those in place to develop those selected. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: I thought that QB we took at #1 would change our franchise. Then I thought that WR we took at #2 was all we needed, and then the DT we took at #2 the next year I thought was the difference maker. None of that worked out, and honestly this team feels about as far away as those teams. It really doesn’t feel close to me. We will be losing quite a bit. We will have to hope Stafford is healthy and remains healthy. We will need to sign a bunch of free agents to fill holes because we can’t fill them all through the draft and I don’t trust Quinn to do that. To answer your first question, I wanted to lose week 17 for the better pick because I know higher picks in each round can help you improve more. That being said I still dont trust those in place to make those decisions and I don’t trust those in place to develop those selected. I'd say both Stafford and Calvin changed our franchise. Honestly, even Suh changed the franchise. That group of players took us from 0-16 to a playoff appearance in the matter of three years, and three total playoff appearances from 2011 to 2016. We failed to build on that core group, part of that being the coaching turnover, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detroitroar Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 25 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: Interesting. Isn't it possible for your players to play well, for the (significantly better) opposing players to also play well, and for the opposing team to win? No. Absolutely not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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