2020 NFL Draft: Discussion, Reports, Rumors, and Studies

[mek5295]

3 minutes ago, SDotNova said:

That’s true now that you mention it. It’s difficult to think back and not get influenced by their pro careers.  Everyone is going to view prospects differently and we won’t know who’s right for another few years. But I have to go back to OBJ to find a WR I liked more coming out then Lamb.

Amari Cooper I believe was the last consensus top 5 pick at WR. Most I believe had him going early. Which he did. And AJ Green. 

Personally, to this day I think Odell Beckham is the best wide receiver prospect I had ever evaluated. He didn't produce much in college but his movement and body control was unheard of. 

I remember the Georgia kickoff (first clip in this video) was the very first play I saw of Odell and thought to myself "holy ****". Then as the season went on, I was in full bloom love. Stinks that he's had to become such a diva. 

 

[mek5295]

4 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Preference is an opinion of what you prefer. And I don’t think that any of us wanting a WR over an OT are saying WR is more important as you say. For me why I prefer a WR over an OT (I’ll be happy if we draft an OT) is I feel the need for a WR on this roster is higher than that of an OT. And there’s 3 guys worthy of the 11th pick. It’s a preference of who you like out of them.

 

But it is not a fact that the 4 OTs in this class are better than any of the WRs. Totally can be your opinion and preference, and I respect that. But it’s not a fact.

Yeah of course it's a preference not a fact. Opinions are topic/issue-based, preferences are option-based (A over B).

With that said, I find it hard for anyone to claim "I have this guy better" if you don't have a grade scale. That doesn't make any sense because you're comparing apples to oranges. Different positions, different requirements, different ways of evaluating. I happen to have a grade scale. I haven't evaluated as many players this year but I have numerical grades on the top 8 tackles, 20 receivers, and 4 defensive ends. Best scale to use is the Cleveland Browns one. Try it yourself and see what you come up with.

And liking a player because of need... yuck.

[Bobby816]

13 minutes ago, mek5295 said:

Yeah of course it's a preference not a fact. Opinions are topic/issue-based, preferences are option-based (A over B).

With that said, I find it hard for anyone to claim "I have this guy better" if you don't have a grade scale. That doesn't make any sense because you're comparing apples to oranges. Different positions, different requirements, different ways of evaluating. I happen to have a grade scale. I haven't evaluated as many players this year but I have numerical grades on the top 8 tackles, 20 receivers, and 4 defensive ends. Best scale to use is the Cleveland Browns one. Try it yourself and see what you come up with.

And liking a player because of need... yuck.

I always factor in need. For me it has to be. I mean if Burrow falls are we drafting him bc he’s bpa? Of course not. We’ve avoided need for years and kept going DL and that’s why our roster is awful, especially on offense.

 

I do however never put a player not worthy of a draft spot on my board. I think our need for WR is the biggest on this team (just my opinion). If all 3 of Lamb, Jeudy and Ruggs were gone at 11 (Won’t happen) I wouldn’t be saying I want Jefferson at 11. Bc I don’t think he’s worth that pick. I LOVED DK Metcalf last draft. But didn’t think he was worth the 3rd pick so I wasn’t screaming for him. I wanted Josh Allen. Just a few examples of how I build my board.

[mek5295]

4 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I always factor in need. For me it has to be. I mean if Burrow falls are we drafting him bc he’s bpa? Of course not. We’ve avoided need for years and kept going DL and that’s why our roster is awful, especially on offense.

 

I do however never put a player not worthy of a draft spot on my board. I think our need for WR is the biggest on this team (just my opinion). If all 3 of Lamb, Jeudy and Ruggs were gone at 11 (Won’t happen) I wouldn’t be saying I want Jefferson at 11. Bc I don’t think he’s worth that pick. I LOVED DK Metcalf last draft. But didn’t think he was worth the 3rd pick so I wasn’t screaming for him. I wanted Josh Allen. Just a few examples of how I build my board.

Drafting defensive lineman has nothing to do with why the Jets roster is what it is. This is the reason why its like that: 

Round	Pick	Player	Position	College	Notes
1	18	Calvin Pryor	S	Louisville
2	49	Jace Amaro	TE	Texas Tech
3	80	Dexter McDougle	CB	Maryland
4	104	Jalen Saunders	WR	Oklahoma	Pick from TB
4	115	Shaquelle Evans	WR	UCLA
4	137	Dakota Dozier	OT	Furman	Compensatory
5	154	Jeremiah George	LB	Iowa St
6	195	Brandon Dixon	CB	Northwest Missouri St
6	209	Quincy Enunwa	WR	Nebraska	Compensatory
6	210	Ikemefuna Enemkpali	DE	Louisiana Tech	Compensatory
6	213	Tajh Boyd	QB	Clemson	Compensatory
7	233	Trevor Reilly	LB	Utah

 

 

 

Muhammad Wilkerson was a great pick until, well, the money. 

Quinton Coples was a worthy gamble as a DE. I wouldn't even call him a tackle but you can lump him in there. This was Tannebaum's "swing for the fences" draft, knowing that if he didn't find stars he was out. He swung and missed. 

Sheldon Richardson was the only good pick Idzik made and there was no reasonable alternative after him that would have put the team in a better position today than it would have otherwise. He was a great player when he was here and in the end, he helped us get Darnold. There's no other player that you can say "yeah, it would've been smart for the Jets to take that guy" without playing monday morning QB. He was clearly that dude. 

Leonard Williams was the best player we could have come away with in a poor draft and the same logic applies: you can't point to a single guy who was worth it at the time and say "that guy should've been the pick." Personally, I wanted Gurley that year or to trade down for DeVante Parker, a wide receiver who I had rated higher than every receiver in this class. No trade down happened, and Williams fell into our laps. 

Quinnen Williams is the one player you can say the Jets had legitimate options to choose from behind him, whether it was Allen, Jonah Williams, Oliver, or even Brian Burns. Regardless if he ends up the 5th player of that bunch little barring on how good/bad the roster is right now- no one player builds a roster; it's culture and depth, two departments we have been lacking in for a variety of reasons, namely, the big problem: John Idzik's 2014 draft. Purposely stripped the roster down, limiting the actual depth and trying to create an environment where the players he drafted can all have an easy pathway to playing time. So Maccagnan takes over a **** roster, and the owner is itching for a winning team, so they fill those holes with free agents who performed well for a year or 2, but when they were ready to move on from them the roster was still barren from Idzik's dismantling/not adequately replenishing it. So Maccagnan swung for the fences in 2016 to overcompensate for what we had missing from a depth/talent/successor perspective (Fitzpatrick/Hackenberg, Lee/Harris- another pick where there was no one really behind him to take that made sense, especially since the Jets still had high hopes for Devin Smith and Robby Anderson), and it didn't work. 2017 he played it safe and landed 2 terrific players, but when you have a roster this thin it's imperative to have high floor drafts-- we're not like the Pats or Seahawks where we can get away with only landing 1-2 good players, need all the guys to be rosterable at least. Maccagnan actually got it right in 2018-2019 minus a few blemishes, but every team has some blemishes. It's very unrealistic to expect anything other than role players outside of the 2nd round, and landing Darnold at 3, Shephard at 72 (he's going to be good), Herndon at 107, and Fatukasi at 180 is going to be a draft we look back at as soon as this year and say that helped begin the turnaround. But the long story short- you need rosterable players when you have a team this thin. You need depth. You need competition. I know it sounds cliche but that stuff goes a very long way in differentiating if a young mid-round player is going to develop into a good one or JAG. 

 

Hopefully Douglas can slam this draft. But I will say drafting a perceived need is not the way. Easy to play monday morning QB and say "we should've taken X". If you're Joe Douglas and you want a receiver, you're not going to want to listen to fans on a message board who say "you should've done X"; we only know 2% of what these guys have been working on for months. 

What's more important this year more than anything: how good do the players they draft in rounds 2-7 turn out. You're always going to expect your 1st round guy to play right away even if it takes him a few years to develop, but what's more important is getting production out of the mid round picks. In my opinion, the goal should be to have a doubles draft- don't go for home runs, go for a bunch of guys you know at the very least will be sturdy pillars to build the foundation. We swung and missed too many times in the past decade, need to make contact and draft guys who are going to contribute. 

[KingOfNewYork]

3 hours ago, mek5295 said:

 If you're Joe Douglas and you want a receiver, you're not going to want to listen to fans on a message board who say "you should've done X"; we only know 2% of what these guys have been working on for months.

See this is hilarious.

Jets fans in 2012- take Melvin Ingram, David Decastro

Tanny/Rex- Quinton Coples

Jets fans in 2013- use our two firsts to rebuild the offense. Grab Hopkins and Eifert

Idzik/Rex- Sheldon/Milliner

Jets fans in 2014- draft Brandin Cooks if he's there, we need a threat offensively

Idzik/Rex- Calvin Pryor

This one is a reach but I think Beasley would have thrived with the Mo/Snacks/Sheldon DL

Jets fans in 2015- We need an EDGE bad, we've been missing a pass rush since Abraham

Macc/Bowles- Leonard Williams

Jets fans in 2016- Take Jaylon Smith or Myles Jack and let them rehab for a year since we already have Demario Davis at MLB

Macc/Bowles- Darron Lee(traded for a 6th and didn't play a meaningful snap for the Chiefs)

Jets fans in 2019- We need an EDGE take Allen or Bosa whoever is there or trade back and accumulate picks and rebuild the roster

Macc- Quinnen Williams

And that's just the first round

We are constantly right in the first round, its the easiest thing for us as fans to be right about, its like we've been handed great players on a plate and the Jets continue to pass them up. Even in the 2nd/3rd round I've seen guys on here be right. I have more faith in Douglas than the last 3 guys in charge.

Sometimes its not about just picking the best player but picking the right player.

We need a complete team, every year we go into the season with not just holes but major ones. I forgot which analyst said it but sometimes "good enough" is just that. The BPA isn't bad but how many defensive tackles are we gonna draft?

[Bobby816]

3 hours ago, mek5295 said:

Drafting defensive lineman has nothing to do with why the Jets roster is what it is. This is the reason why its like that: 

Round	Pick	Player	Position	College	Notes
1	18	Calvin Pryor	S	Louisville
2	49	Jace Amaro	TE	Texas Tech
3	80	Dexter McDougle	CB	Maryland
4	104	Jalen Saunders	WR	Oklahoma	Pick from TB
4	115	Shaquelle Evans	WR	UCLA
4	137	Dakota Dozier	OT	Furman	Compensatory
5	154	Jeremiah George	LB	Iowa St
6	195	Brandon Dixon	CB	Northwest Missouri St
6	209	Quincy Enunwa	WR	Nebraska	Compensatory
6	210	Ikemefuna Enemkpali	DE	Louisiana Tech	Compensatory
6	213	Tajh Boyd	QB	Clemson	Compensatory
7	233	Trevor Reilly	LB	Utah

 

 

 

Muhammad Wilkerson was a great pick until, well, the money. 

Quinton Coples was a worthy gamble as a DE. I wouldn't even call him a tackle but you can lump him in there. This was Tannebaum's "swing for the fences" draft, knowing that if he didn't find stars he was out. He swung and missed. 

Sheldon Richardson was the only good pick Idzik made and there was no reasonable alternative after him that would have put the team in a better position today than it would have otherwise. He was a great player when he was here and in the end, he helped us get Darnold. There's no other player that you can say "yeah, it would've been smart for the Jets to take that guy" without playing monday morning QB. He was clearly that dude. 

Leonard Williams was the best player we could have come away with in a poor draft and the same logic applies: you can't point to a single guy who was worth it at the time and say "that guy should've been the pick." Personally, I wanted Gurley that year or to trade down for DeVante Parker, a wide receiver who I had rated higher than every receiver in this class. No trade down happened, and Williams fell into our laps. 

Quinnen Williams is the one player you can say the Jets had legitimate options to choose from behind him, whether it was Allen, Jonah Williams, Oliver, or even Brian Burns. Regardless if he ends up the 5th player of that bunch little barring on how good/bad the roster is right now- no one player builds a roster; it's culture and depth, two departments we have been lacking in for a variety of reasons, namely, the big problem: John Idzik's 2014 draft. Purposely stripped the roster down, limiting the actual depth and trying to create an environment where the players he drafted can all have an easy pathway to playing time. So Maccagnan takes over a **** roster, and the owner is itching for a winning team, so they fill those holes with free agents who performed well for a year or 2, but when they were ready to move on from them the roster was still barren from Idzik's dismantling/not adequately replenishing it. So Maccagnan swung for the fences in 2016 to overcompensate for what we had missing from a depth/talent/successor perspective (Fitzpatrick/Hackenberg, Lee/Harris- another pick where there was no one really behind him to take that made sense, especially since the Jets still had high hopes for Devin Smith and Robby Anderson), and it didn't work. 2017 he played it safe and landed 2 terrific players, but when you have a roster this thin it's imperative to have high floor drafts-- we're not like the Pats or Seahawks where we can get away with only landing 1-2 good players, need all the guys to be rosterable at least. Maccagnan actually got it right in 2018-2019 minus a few blemishes, but every team has some blemishes. It's very unrealistic to expect anything other than role players outside of the 2nd round, and landing Darnold at 3, Shephard at 72 (he's going to be good), Herndon at 107, and Fatukasi at 180 is going to be a draft we look back at as soon as this year and say that helped begin the turnaround. But the long story short- you need rosterable players when you have a team this thin. You need depth. You need competition. I know it sounds cliche but that stuff goes a very long way in differentiating if a young mid-round player is going to develop into a good one or JAG. 

 

Hopefully Douglas can slam this draft. But I will say drafting a perceived need is not the way. Easy to play monday morning QB and say "we should've taken X". If you're Joe Douglas and you want a receiver, you're not going to want to listen to fans on a message board who say "you should've done X"; we only know 2% of what these guys have been working on for months. 

What's more important this year more than anything: how good do the players they draft in rounds 2-7 turn out. You're always going to expect your 1st round guy to play right away even if it takes him a few years to develop, but what's more important is getting production out of the mid round picks. In my opinion, the goal should be to have a doubles draft- don't go for home runs, go for a bunch of guys you know at the very least will be sturdy pillars to build the foundation. We swung and missed too many times in the past decade, need to make contact and draft guys who are going to contribute. 

I agree. But I’ve pointed out over the years (I know you’re new here) that bc we didn’t factor in need... even picks we’ve hit on weren’t necessarily good for this team. We drafted Jamal Adams who I like a lot. But there was 2 QBs worthy of that spot in Watson and Mahomes (I was high on Mahomes but only bc I’m a Texas Tech alum, I never thought he’d be this good). So while the pick of Adams isn’t a fail. What it made us do in drafts after is where it hurt us. We had to trade 3 2nd rounders and a swap 1sts to get Darnold. Think of what those picks could have been the last 3 drafts instead of Adams. QB was a HUGE need for us in the Adams draft. If we would’ve just drafted Watson or Mahomes we then would have had our original 1st the next year, our 2nds that year as well as our 2nd last year. That’s getting our QB and adding what “could’ve been” 4 quality players with premium picks. So there’s a lot more than just this draft you pointed out with fails that set us back. The only unfortunate good pick we’ve made was Devin Smith in recent years. Nearly every other 1st and 2nd round pick most of us didn’t care for, for quite some time. And while we are all far from experts... our results on the field show that what we wanted as fans on this board... would’ve helped this team more than what our last several GMs have done.

 

I know JD is new and he has had great teachers. But this his 1st tome as a GM in a draft so there’s no telling what he will want to do. And while there’s no support to say we shouldn’t trust him. We as jets fans bc of our oat few GMs have every right to not trust our GM drafting for us. And  we all hope he proves us all wrong and is incredible at building a roster.

[Bobby816]

10 minutes ago, KingOfTheDot said:

See this is hilarious.

Jets fans in 2012- take Melvin Ingram, David Decastro

Tanny/Rex- Quinton Coples

Jets fans in 2013- use our two firsts to rebuild the offense. Grab Hopkins and Eifert

Idzik/Rex- Sheldon/Milliner

Jets fans in 2014- draft Brandin Cooks if he's there, we need a threat offensively

Idzik/Rex- Calvin Pryor

This one is a reach but I think Beasley would have thrived with the Mo/Snacks/Sheldon DL

Jets fans in 2015- We need an EDGE bad, we've been missing a pass rush since Abraham

Macc/Bowles- Leonard Williams

Jets fans in 2016- Take Jaylon Smith or Myles Jack and let them rehab for a year since we already have Demario Davis at MLB

Macc/Bowles- Darron Lee(traded for a 6th and didn't play a meaningful snap for the Chiefs)

Jets fans in 2019- We need an EDGE take Allen or Bosa whoever is there or trade back and accumulate picks and rebuild the roster

Macc- Quinnen Williams

And that's just the first round

We are constantly right in the first round, its the easiest thing for us as fans to be right about, its like we've been handed great players on a plate and the Jets continue to pass them up. Even in the 2nd/3rd round I've seen guys on here be right. I have more faith in Douglas than the last 3 guys in charge.

Sometimes its not about just picking the best player but picking the right player.

We need a complete team, every year we go into the season with not just holes but major ones. I forgot which analyst said it but sometimes "good enough" is just that. The BPA isn't bad but how many defensive tackles are we gonna draft?

Exactly. Is Marcus Maye not a good player? No he’s pretty good. But we were handed Dalvin Cook on a platter when we needed a RB. We go a S (after we just drafted one in Round 1). And then a year later use a big portion of cap on a RB that could’ve been used elsewhere. It’s all things like this.

[KingOfNewYork]

Fant is the first look at what we should consider Douglas is looking for in Tackles. In terms of measurables and testing here are Fant's and who compares best(give or take a few seconds/inches/reps)

4.84 40YD- Wirfs, Cleveland

4.54 20SS- Cleveland, Thomas

7.2 3 Cone- Cleveland, Thomas, Wirfs

37in Vertical- Wirfs, Wills

119in Broad- Wirfs, Jackson

22Reps BP- Becton, Thomas, Wirfs, Jones

[KingOfNewYork]

10 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Exactly. Is Marcus Maye not a good player? No he’s pretty good. But we were handed Dalvin Cook on a platter when we needed a RB. We go a S (after we just drafted one in Round 1). And then a year later use a big portion of cap on a RB that could’ve been used elsewhere. It’s all things like this.

Hypothetical but if we draft Cook then maybe Tyrann Mathieu comes here because there's a spot for him. Could have used the Bell money on other areas such as Pass Rush, OL or Receiver.

 

[Bobby816]

18 minutes ago, KingOfTheDot said:

Fant is the first look at what we should consider Douglas is looking for in Tackles. In terms of measurables and testing here are Fant's and who compares best(give or take a few seconds/inches/reps)

4.84 40YD- Wirfs, Cleveland

4.54 20SS- Cleveland, Thomas

7.2 3 Cone- Cleveland, Thomas, Wirfs

37in Vertical- Wirfs, Wills

119in Broad- Wirfs, Jackson

22Reps BP- Becton, Thomas, Wirfs, Jones

That 3 cone is what I think JD cares about.

 

Was watching some breakdown in depth on these OTs and Cleveland, Peart and Jackson are guys I think that JD might like over some of these other guys (really just Becton). Several of the breakdowns were tough on Becton (which I am as well). A thing that kept coming up with him is people getting caught in his size and 40. But if you actually watch his feet, they're not as quick as that 40 shows. And he didn't run other quick drills at the combine (probably bc he knew it would only hurt his stock). So is he athletic? Yes for his size. But guys a bit smaller than him and that can still play OT have quicker feet than him. So he will be a good pass blocker bc of his length and strength and enough quickness. But its a whole other thing for him in the run game. Several breakdowns said if you look at just Bectons run game tape... he would be a mid round pick.

 

What several of the guys also pointed to, which several of us here have as well. Is that Thomas was looked at as the top OT for so long. Very well polished as a 3 year starter, rarely injured and produced in a good conference. Yet is getting moved down boards by some for no reason other than just some of these other guys doing well at the combine and looking more flashy. Where Thomas should still be the top OT on peoples board from a franchise OT standpoint. Which is an excellent point.

[Bobby816]

5 hours ago, mek5295 said:

Personally, to this day I think Odell Beckham is the best wide receiver prospect I had ever evaluated. He didn't produce much in college but his movement and body control was unheard of. 

I remember the Georgia kickoff (first clip in this video) was the very first play I saw of Odell and thought to myself "holy ****". Then as the season went on, I was in full bloom love. Stinks that he's had to become such a diva. 

 

Most of us on here LOVED OBJ as well. It was a shame he didn't make it to us. I was not expecting the NYG to draft a WR that year, so it kind of shocked me. The way he plays though is very similar to that of Lamb. So for a lot of us that liked OBJ... I think will like Lamb a lot as well.

[Rockice_8]

6 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

As long as you realize that’s a personal opinion. Not a fact. That’s ok with me.

As long as you realize your in the minority especially when it comes to actual NFL talent evaluators then that's ok with me.

[KingOfNewYork]

21 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

That 3 cone is what I think JD cares about.

 

Was watching some breakdown in depth on these OTs and Cleveland, Peart and Jackson are guys I think that JD might like over some of these other guys (really just Becton). Several of the breakdowns were tough on Becton (which I am as well). A thing that kept coming up with him is people getting caught in his size and 40. But if you actually watch his feet, they're not as quick as that 40 shows. And he didn't run other quick drills at the combine (probably bc he knew it would only hurt his stock). So is he athletic? Yes for his size. But guys a bit smaller than him and that can still play OT have quicker feet than him. So he will be a good pass blocker bc of his length and strength and enough quickness. But its a whole other thing for him in the run game. Several breakdowns said if you look at just Bectons run game tape... he would be a mid round pick.

 

What several of the guys also pointed to, which several of us here have as well. Is that Thomas was looked at as the top OT for so long. Very well polished as a 3 year starter, rarely injured and produced in a good conference. Yet is getting moved down boards by some for no reason other than just some of these other guys doing well at the combine and looking more flashy. Where Thomas should still be the top OT on peoples board from a franchise OT standpoint. Which is an excellent point.

The more I look at it the more I see Thomas probably being the pick if he’s there. 

Great film, technique, versatility, played against Elite comp, day 1 kind of guy and still a long term stud. It’s why his stock has seemingly skyrocketed with the final week approaching.

[Bobby816]

32 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

As long as you realize your in the minority especially when it comes to actual NFL talent evaluators then that's ok with me.

This is not true. I suggest you go look at NFL talent evaluators big boards and player rankings. Not just mock drafts. Nearly every single one of them have a WR (mostly multiple ones) in the mix (most even ahead of) the OTs. That's not saying that in a mock draft they have them going higher. But as far as player ranking... they are higher on some boards. For example PFF has both Jeudy and Lamb ahead of any OT. And Ruggs behind Thomas and Wirfs and ahead of Wills. And Becton they have pretty far down. They do have Jones at 14 though.

 

Daniel Jeremiah has Becton at 7 (I don't agree with this at all), Lamb at 9, Wills at 10, Jeudy at 11, Ruggs at 12, Wills at 13 and Thomas at 17.

 

Please show me a NFL draft experts player rankings that have 4 OTs ahead of ANY WR?!?!

 

 

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, KingOfTheDot said:

The more I look at it the more I see Thomas probably being the pick if he’s there. 

Great film, technique, versatility, played against Elite comp, day 1 kind of guy and still a long term stud. It’s why his stock has seemingly skyrocketed with the final week approaching.

I'd be happy with that