Worm Guts Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: I haven’t evaluated the two quarterbacks, together, period. Because what’s truly intellectually dishonest is to try and compare either quarterback when they haven’t played in the same offense. You like to bring Bridgewater into the discussion anytime someone offers constructive criticism of Keenum. Why? One has nothing to do with the other. No one is saying that Bridgewater would be making these throws. And you can absolutely bet that people would be offering the same criticism towards Bridgewater, just like they did on his deep ball issues. Offering constructive criticism is ok, I promise you. Because I know what this is about. It’s funny because I’m Teddy fan, Teddy in 2-3 years will probably be the better QB, but it’s clear there are posters here desperately looking for reasons push Case out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worm Guts Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, vike daddy said: oh no, not at all representative of that play. the ball did not "hit him in the hands," it was thrown so high Diggs had to fully jump and fully extend his arms, and even then barely got fingertips on it. that is not being hit in the hands. Maybe I need to see the play again, but I’m pretty sure it hit more than his fingertips. It hit enough of his hands to bounce back towards the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 23 minutes ago, Worm Guts said: Lol, my point is the excuses that count for Teddy somehow don’t count for Case. Now you’re to complain about all deep balls Case has missed. You’re not evaluating the two on the same standard, and shamefully intellectually dishonest. I apologise that I don't remember nor can I find the actual statistics, but Case has been buoyed by an unbelievably good contested catch rate this season and has also had several interceptable passes this season. Cian Fahey actually wrote about it this here. http://presnapreads.com/2017/11/28/case-keenum-and-the-season-of-supporting-casts/, however I actually think he's overly critical in this article. Teddy had a terrible scheme, supporting cast, and luck (imo) his rookie, this is fairly evident with statistical data and film review which has been offered by many. One stat to point to, however, is his 77.3 adj comp% his rookie year which improved to 79.3 in 2015 (3rd and 1st in the league respectively) So no I don't think I'm being intellectually dishonest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, vike daddy said: oh no, not at all representative of that play. the ball did not "hit him in the hands," it was thrown so high Diggs had to fully jump and fully extend his arms, and even then barely got fingertips on it. that is not being hit in the hands. here's the play at the moment the ball touches Diggs. why throw the ball to a spot, at the scrimmage line, that pulls the receiver that high in the air? that play is all about yac, so you have to keep him on the ground and put it to his chest. hey look, i like Keenum. i hope he shrugs this game off and plays us all the way to and through the Super Bowl, and i'm not saying he won't or can't, i WANT him to succeed. but a bad pass is a bad pass, it should be recognized for that. just like a bad drop is the fault of the receiver, Keenum had faulty passes that game too, and this one too Diggs definitely was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worm Guts Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, vike daddy said: here's the play at the moment the ball touches Diggs. why throw the ball to a spot, at the scrimmage line, that pulls the receiver that high in the air? that play is all about yac, so you have to keep him on the ground and put it to his chest. hey look, i like Keenum. i hope he shrugs this game off and plays us all the way to and through the Super Bowl, and i'm not saying he won't or can't, i WANT him to succeed. but a bad pass is a bad pass, it should be recognized for that. just like a bad drop is the fault of the receiver, Keenum had faulty passes that game too, and this one too Diggs definitely was. It was a bad throw, but also 100 percent should have been caught and not an interception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Definitively not a gimmie catch, 100% should have been caught. Especially on such a routine throw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Worm Guts said: It was a bad throw, but also 100 percent should have been caught and not an interception. watch it in real time, and you'll see Diggsie did everything he could do to catch it. it was not 100% catchable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worm Guts Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, Dolmonite26 said: I apologise that I don't remember nor can I find the actual statistics, but Case has been buoyed by an unbelievably good contested catch rate this season and has also had several interceptable passes this year. Cian Fahey actually wrote about it this year http://presnapreads.com/2017/11/28/case-keenum-and-the-season-of-supporting-casts/, however I actually think he's overly critical here. Teddy had a terrible scheme, supporting cast, and luck (imo) his rookie, this is fairly evident with statistical data and film review which has been offered by many. One stat to point to, however, is his 77.3 adj comp% his rookie year which improved to 79.3 in 2015 (3rd and 1st in the league respectively) So no I don't think I'm being intellectually dishonest. Teddy may have been in bad system but that’s not much of an indicator of how he would perform in this. Its just hard to watch every mistake by Keenum put under the microscope when I saw similar mistakes excused for Bridgewater. And I Love Bridgewater, but if you want to find bad mistakes he made, they’re easy enough to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worm Guts Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, vike daddy said: watch it in real time, and you'll see Diggsie did everything he could do to catch it. it was not 100% catchable. I’ve watched multiple times, I think he should have caught it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, Worm Guts said: Teddy may have been in bad system but that’s not much of an indicator of how he would perform in this. Its just hard to watch every mistake by Keenum put under the microscope when I saw similar mistakes excused for Bridgewater. And I Love Bridgewater, but if you want to find bad mistakes he made, they’re easy enough to find. You might be missing the point tho. Teddy made "similar" mistakes as a 21 year old rookie. Case is nearly 30 and has (debatably) similar statistical production in a much better situation (pretty much not debatable) Teddy showed more quarterbacking skill in his two years than Keenum pre 2017. Even then 2017 Keenum warrants some scepticism because of how his production has been gained on the backs of a good supporting cast. However he did silence some of that with his fourish game stretch post bye. So yeah a lot of us are zeroing in on Case because, well I at least (won't speak for others), believe Teddy is a better QB...yes, right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Another game like last week from Keenum against the Bengals, I think you've got to make a switch. Give Teddy time before the playoffs to get up to speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 Just now, vikingsrule said: Another game like last week from Keenum against the Bengals, I think you've got to make a switch. Give Teddy time before the playoffs to get up to speed. quite possibly so, but let's just plan it not being the scenario that plays out. Keenum had a flat game, it happens. it happened to Brady last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 I think Keenum is going to have to play worse against Cincinnati for him to get benched. I think we’re to that point where you just have to ride it out. For better or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Just now, vike daddy said: quite possibly so, but let's just plan it not being the scenario that plays out. Keenum had a flat game, it happens. it happened to Brady last night. I wouldn't call it a flat game, it was a disastrous game. Big catch and run from Thielen and a late Sendejo Int are what really gave the team life to get back in it. Hopefully getting back home will correct things, we just better hope to get HFA because I hardly trust this offense on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, vikingsrule said: Another game like last week from Keenum against the Bengals, I think you've got to make a switch. Give Teddy time before the playoffs to get up to speed. That'd be an interesting move given the record. At this point, the only way I see Teddy starting is due to injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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