GDT Week 6 - Packers @ Vikings

[strat1080]

2 hours ago, incognito_man said:

You don't really know what you are talking about here.

MIN is 19th in yds/drive, GB is 22nd.

MIN is 20th in plays/drive, GB is 25th.

MIN is 19th in turnovers/drive, GB is 6th.

MIN is 9th in pts/drive, GB is 17th.

MIN is 15th in DPR, GB is 18th.

Same tier virtually across the board. I know a lot of fans want Minnesota's defense to be so much better because it fits their agenda, but it hasn't been so far. Sorry.

 

Come on dude. You just picked a bunch of stats that Green Bay compares with Minnesota. Of your stats though the points per drive is pretty significant. Our defense is not very good and we will see that again in the playoffs. I just simply have no faith in Capers defense come playoff time.

[strat1080]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

You can't choose to focus on playoff production and exclusively blame the defense. 

Those two points just don't jive.

What are you talking about dude? That isn't even a coherent point. Our defense is mediocre year after year in the regular season and downright awful in the playoffs. With the exception of one year this defense has failed us every single year. In the 2009, 2011, 2012, and 2016 playoffs we got sent home after giving up 45, 45, 37, and 44 points respectively. In 2013, 2014, 2015 we got sent home because our defense couldn't make a stop with the game on the line. All in all in 7 playoff losses with Rodgers at QB Dom Capers defense has surrendered 36 PPG. Keep telling yourself that we have a solid defense. Whatever helps you sleep at night dude.

[incognito_man]

4 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

So the Vikes are a top 1/4 of the NFL team when it comes to scoring D while the Pack is top 1/2.

I hope the Pack's D improves enough to become a top 10 (top 1/3) D as the season progresses.

However, as the numbers make clear, the Pack's D is not currently in the "same tier" as the Vikes D. 

that's one number. not 'numbers'. It's an important one, and it results in MIN giving up 3 fewer FGs through 5 games than GB's defense. 

For reference, at the current points given up, MIN would have finished 3rd overall in 2016 and GB would have finished 8th.

Essentially the same tier so far. Minnesota's defense hasn't played up to expectations yet either. It's ok to admit this.

[incognito_man]

9 minutes ago, strat1080 said:

Come on dude. You just picked a bunch of stats that Green Bay compares with Minnesota. Of your stats though the points per drive is pretty significant. Our defense is not very good and we will see that again in the playoffs. I just simply have no faith in Capers defense come playoff time.

I picked the drive stats (and included all of them) because you (or someone) was talking about them. 

Then I included DPR because it is in my opinion one of the best non-scoring stats for determining defensive success in today's NFL.

What have YOU shown? anything yet?

yeah.

[strat1080]

1 hour ago, incognito_man said:

Funny how posting facts and being a realist makes one a kool aid drinker to some. Shows how far out of touch those people are.

I've never swayed from my opinions on Dom where are factually verifiable: he is an above average DC that excels more than other DCs when he has the right pieces. Most DCs do well with great talent, Dom does even better. He also does an above average job regardless and it's silly to want him fired unless you can replace him with someone you are very confident is better. Not many exist, and most of those that do are employed at either higher levels (HC) or equal levels (DC).

It's unfortunate you choose to ignore reality, however. I'll never understand that mindset.

I'm not sure who you think the realist is in this conversation. The guy (you) who thinks a coordinator behind giving up 36 PPG in 7 playoff losses over 8 years is actually really good at his job or the guy (me) that is beyond tired of doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The reality is the numbers don't lie. Dom Capers defenses have been terrible in the playoffs. When we get throttled and give up 40 points again in the divisional round or NFCCG again, what is going to be your next excuse for Dom Capers. For whatever reason, the good QBs in the playoffs just seem to have a field day against our defensive scheme. We are running out of time. Honestly I can't think of a team more cursed for absolutely atrocious defensive performances in the playoffs than us over the last 8 years. Its embarrassing.

[Norm]

6 minutes ago, strat1080 said:

I'm not sure who you think the realist is in this conversation. The guy (you) who thinks a coordinator behind giving up 36 PPG in 7 playoff losses over 8 years is actually really good at his job or the guy (me) that is beyond tired of doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The reality is the numbers don't lie. Dom Capers defenses have been terrible in the playoffs. When we get throttled and give up 40 points again in the divisional round or NFCCG again, what is going to be your next excuse for Dom Capers. For whatever reason, the good QBs in the playoffs just seem to have a field day against our defensive scheme. We are running out of time. Honestly I can't think of a team more cursed for absolutely atrocious defensive performances in the playoffs than us over the last 8 years. Its embarrassing.

Maybe we're actually cursed!

[strat1080]

Just now, incognito_man said:

I picked the drive stats (and included all of them) because you (or someone) was talking about them. 

Then I included DPR because it is in my opinion one of the best non-scoring stats for determining defensive success in today's NFL.

What have YOU shown? anything yet?

yeah.

Really? I posted that the Vikings give up one complete yard less per run than the Packers and have only given up 1 20+ yard run. The Packers have given up 7 20+ yard runs. That's worst in the NFL dude. That's indicative that the Vikings defensive front is significantly better than ours. The Packers defense is basically a chameleon. We can try to stop the run or pass but can't do both. The Vikings defense can just flat out line up play defense. This defense isn't very good. Zeke hadn't done squat all year and like that he rushes for 100 yards on us, in the meantime Dak had a field day against us. It's basically a bend don't break defense that breaks. What has this Packers defense done this year that is impressive? What offense have we made look poor that didn't like garbage against everybody else.The two legit offenses we've played both scored over 30 points and moved the ball at will against us. You're in denial dude. Are you Dom Capers son or something? This defense is going to get smoked again in the playoffs. Not even close to a championship caliber defense. I don't know what you are seeing that makes you believe this defense is any good.

[Norm]

I wish I hadn't read page 8

[incognito_man]

7 minutes ago, strat1080 said:

I don't know what you are seeing that makes you believe this defense is any good.

I'm seeing reality that makes me believe GB and MIN defenses have performed roughly equally so far this season.

If GB is the only defense not to surrender a 20+ yd score what does that mean?

If GB's secondary has given up half as many 40+ yd passing plays as Minnesota's what does that mean?

[Norm]

"The Packers have given up 7 20+ yard runs. "

 

What

[strat1080]

2 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said:

"The Packers have given up 7 20+ yard runs. "

 

What

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2017&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&d-447263-s=RUSHING_20PLUS_YARDS_EACH

[Norm]

4 minutes ago, strat1080 said:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2017&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&d-447263-s=RUSHING_20PLUS_YARDS_EACH

Who should we cut and fire

[strat1080]

5 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

I'm seeing reality that makes me believe GB and MIN defenses have performed roughly equally so far this season.

If GB is the only defense not to surrender a 20+ yd score what does that mean?

If GB's secondary has given up half as many 40+ yd passing plays as Minnesota's what does that mean?

You're getting desperate. Minnesota has given up 2 40+ yard passing plays. Green Bay has given up 1 40+ yard passing play. Your manipulation of reality isn't going to work on me. That's your counter to us giving up 7 20+ yard run plays to Minnesota only giving up 1 20+ yard run play? Seriously? Our pass defense yards per game look solid because teams can run the all on us. We've only held one team to under 100 yards rushing this year and they went for 90 yards and averaged 5.0 YPC. That's not going to get it done dude.

We allowed 160 rushing yards at 4.7 YPC and allowed Dak to throw for 3 TDs and post a 100+ passer rating against us last week. This defense hasn't shown the ability to slow down the better offenses in the NFL. Atlanta made our defense look like trash. I'm not a believer dude.

If you truly believe our defense is in the same tier as Minnesota, do you actually believe we can keep the Saints under 20 points, keep Brees under 300 yards, and only allow 60 rushing yards at 2.9 YPA? There is no way we are going that. The Saints are probably going to drop 27-30+ points on us. Brees is going to have 300 yards and we will probably give up 100+ yards on the ground. This is relevant because we are playing them next week. There is no way our defense looks as good against the Saints as Minnesota's did. Frankly, I'm very nervous about that game.

[incognito_man]

4 minutes ago, strat1080 said:

You're getting desperate. Minnesota has given up 2 40+ yard passing plays. Green Bay has given up 1 40+ yard passing play. Your manipulation of reality isn't going to work on me.

In my reality 1 is half as many as 2. Not true in your's?

It's worse than I even imagined...

[Norm]

4 minutes ago, strat1080 said:

You're getting desperate. Minnesota has given up 2 40+ yard passing plays. Green Bay has given up 1 40+ yard passing play. Your manipulation of reality isn't going to work on me. That's your counter to us giving up 7 20+ yard run plays to Minnesota only giving up 1 20+ yard run play? Seriously? Our pass defense yards per game look solid because teams can run the all on us. We've only held one team to under 100 yards rushing this year and they went for 90 yards and averaged 5.0 YPC. That's not going to get it done dude.

We allowed 160 rushing yards at 4.7 YPC and allowed Dak to throw for 3 TDs and post a 100+ passer rating against us last week. This defense hasn't shown the ability to slow down the better offenses in the NFL. Atlanta made our defense look like trash. I'm not a believer dude.

If you truly believe our defense is in the same tier as Minnesota, do you actually believe we can keep the Saints under 20 points, keep Brees under 300 yards, and only allow 60 rushing yards at 2.9 YPA? There is no way we are going that. The Saints are probably going to drop 27-30+ points on us. Brees is going to have 300 yards and we will probably give up 100+ yards on the ground. This is relevant because we are playing them next week. There is no way our defense looks as good against the Saints as Minnesota's did. Frankly, I'm very nervous about that game.

My issue is even if we did that against NO inevitably a week, 3 weeks 4 weeks later or whatever we'll have a bad defensive game and then it's all see!!! This is who we are. It was all a fluke!!!