2022 NFL Draft Thread

[ronjon1990]

Just now, NYRaider said:

He went to Alabama though so is Jalen Hurts good or do all Alabama QB suck and should not be drafted?

Call this number, get your package, and then re-read what I wrote once you learn the basics of comprehension.

[NYRaider]

7 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Tua, even when healthy, has never lit the world on fire in the NFL.  He was arguably worse this year than his rookie year, and there were legitimate trade talks regarding him despite being a first round pick just a season ago. Dude had his starting job on Sunday because Deshaun Watson couldn't keep his hands to himself, not because he's been any good. 

As for Lawrence, yes, absolutely. He wasn't good. Even accounting for a relative lack of talent around him, he was bad, just a little less bad. Davis Mills was better on similar circumstances. Zach Wilson was better in similar circumstances. Trevor Lawrence played so poorly that only 1 QB has come around in the last two decades and had as bad or worse of a rookie season and eventually made something out of himself. What has Trevor Lawrence actually done to warrant optimism going forward? He has "elite traits"? He has "untapped potential"? He has "the skill set"? "Generational prospect"? Those are subjective terms handed out to virtually every massive bust QB. 

Deshaun Watson is a top 5 QB when he's on the field and went to Clemson, shouldn't he have busted?

Lawrence is physically talented and had moments this season, he looked good last week. Robert Saleh is one of the most highly regarded up and coming coaches in the NFL, Urban Meyer didn't even make it out of his first season. Mike White played just as good as Zach Wilson, lol.

Wilson had 11 INT on 328 passing attempts (2.9%), Lawrence had 17 INT on 606 passing attempts (2.0%) which was the 6th most in the NFL. The Jets invested a ton into their OL and skill position groups with Elijah Moore, Corey Davis, etc. The talent that he had around him was much better then what Lawrence had in Jacksonville.

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Call this number, get your package, and then re-read what I wrote once you learn the basics of comprehension.

You're saying Bryce Young won't be good because he plays at Alabama. Yet two QB's that just came out of their program just led their teams to the playoffs.

[drfrey13]

49 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I can understand sitting out of a random bowl game but how many guys are going to sit out of the national championship? Williams injury was non-contact, the turf at Lucas Oil is just crap.

Not saying the turf is good but that injury was from trying to cut awkwardly after spinning around.  His foot was way out from under his center when he tried to drive off of it and it was just to much pressure.  

[ronjon1990]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

Deshaun Watson is a top 5 QB when he's on the field and went to Clemson, shouldn't he have busted?

Lawrence is physically talented and had moments this season, he looked good last week. Robert Saleh is one of the most highly regarded up and coming coaches in the NFL, Urban Meyer didn't even make it out of his first season. Mike White played just as good as Zach Wilson, lol.

Wilson had 11 INT on 328 passing attempts (2.9%), Lawrence had 17 INT on 606 passing attempts (2.0%) which was the 6th most in the NFL. The Jets invested a ton into their OL and skill position groups with Elijah Moore, Corey Davis, etc. The talent that he had around him was much better then what Lawrence had in Jacksonville.

Except he's not on the field, didn't elevate his team to wins, and played at Clemson before they were rolling in 5* recruits left and right. 

Physically talented is a cop out. So was Sam Darnold. 

He had his moments? So did Tyler Huntley, Mike White, Cam Newton, etc. Whoopty doo. 

I also never made any allusion to Wilson not sucking. I said he sucked before he was even drafted. Being better than Zach Wilson at something is the equivalent of saying a sinker smells better than a floater. 

Now, go play with your limited edition MVP Lamar doll and your "winner" QBs who.... didn't win so must now go down as losers, because winners win, losers lose. You're the last person I'm interested in debating QB play with, because you get wrapped up in hype and refuse to account for context that doesn't suit your agenda. Like your weekly flip-flopping on Carr. 

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Except he's not on the field, didn't elevate his team to wins, and played at Clemson before they were rolling in 5* recruits left and right. 

Physically talented is a cop out. So was Sam Darnold. 

He had his moments? So did Tyler Huntley, Mike White, Cam Newton, etc. Whoopty doo. 

I also never made any allusion to Wilson not sucking. I said he sucked before he was even drafted. Being better than Zach Wilson at something is the equivalent of saying a sinker smells better than a floater. 

Now, go play with your limited edition MVP Lamar doll and your "winner" QBs who.... didn't win so must now go down as losers, because winners win, losers lose. You're the last person I'm interested in debating QB play with, because you get wrapped up in hype and refuse to account for context that doesn't suit your agenda. Like your weekly flip-flopping on Carr. 

None of the rookie QB's played particularly well this year outside of Mac Jones who went into the absolute perfect situation. Lawrence was apart of probably the biggest circus in recent NFL history with a rookie head coach, rookie play caller, limited talent at WR, and was asked to throw the ball more then any rookie QB in NFL history. 

[ronjon1990]

7 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

You're saying Bryce Young won't be good because he plays at Alabama. Yet two QB's that just came out of their program just led their teams to the playoffs.

Hurts got that OU rub. Besides, you said he sucks. So it can't possibly be that he led them. 

And I explained Mac. 

And no, I'm saying Bryce Young won't be good because Bryce Young sucks and Alabama successfully masks it well. Him going to Alabama is ancillary. He would suck elsewhere too. He doesn't suck because he goes to Alabama. 

Reading comprehension. 

 

[NYRaider]

15 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Hurts got that OU rub. Besides, you said he sucks. So it can't possibly be that he led them. 

And I explained Mac. 

And no, I'm saying Bryce Young won't be good because Bryce Young sucks and Alabama successfully masks it well. Him going to Alabama is ancillary. He would suck elsewhere too. He doesn't suck because he goes to Alabama. 

Reading comprehension. 

 

What about Baker Mayfield? He got the OU rub as well?

Bryce Young does not suck, he didn't play well today against one of the best defenses in college football history without a ton of key players. Probably didn't help that his mother was just diagnosed with breast cancer, god forbid a 19 year old kid that has scored 50 TD/5 INT over the season has a bad game.

[ronjon1990]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

None of the rookie QB's played particularly well this year outside of Mac Jones who went into the absolute perfect situation. Lawrence was apart of probably the biggest circus in recent NFL history with a rookie head coach, rookie play caller, limited talent at WR, and was asked to throw the ball more then any rookie QB in NFL history. 

1. Notice, I never said any of them did. I said they all sucked.

2. Subjective excuses do not make a QB good. 

3. Still more talent than the Texans. 

4. And yet all he could muster was the horrid stat line he did, which makes his season even more underwhelming. 

 

Do this: Replace "Trevor Lawrence" with "Ian Book". Is he still being so staunchly defended? No. Because Book wasn't hyped up as the next coming of Jesus Christ himself. Lawrence, meanwhile, was. If not for the hyperbolic hype Lawrence was given, he would be Josh Rosen'd here in a couple of months because he just had one of the worst rookie seasons ever, regardless of supporting cast. What Lawrence actually showed was the same rare glimpses of playmaking that practically every high round bust shows. He didn't stand out from former busts in anything he did. Not positively, at least. Take away the preconceived narrative of the last 3 years that Lawrence was surefire and guaranteed for greatness, take all that ridiculous hype away. He was bad. Period. The only thing buoying him is the hype. And it's why everyone has to revert to his "elite traits", "excellent skill set", "generational prospect pedigree", "upside"- because what he showed on the field was nothing to brag about at all. And guess what every 1st round bust QB has? "Elite traits", "excellent skill sets", pedigree, "upside" most got the generatiomal talent or "transformational talent" label. Same song and dance. 

Every argument used to defend Trevor Lawrence right now is literally the same excuses we just went through for Sam Darnold. It's comical. 

[ronjon1990]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

What about Baker Mayfield? He got the OU rub as well?

Bryce Young does not suck, he didn't play well today against one of the best defenses in college football history without a ton of key players. Probably didn't help that his mother was just diagnosed with breast cancer, god forbid a 19 year old kid that has scored 50 TD/5 INT over the season has a bad game.

Baker Mayfield is still better than Tua and Lawrence. 

That's pretty telling. Lol. 

I also never said it was a perfect science. If you want Young, have at it. Put his picture next to Lamar's across from your toilet for all I care. 

Given that you've slobbed the knob of Lamar, Spencer Rattler, and virtually every other flavor of the week QB while deriding Carr to comical levels while refusing to account for context as soon as it details your argument  while giving passes to your crushes left and right (#WinnerswinLoserslose), I've long since given up on listening to your horrid takes on QBs. 

Stick to evaluating WRs and OL. You're pretty decent at that. But your QB takes are hotter than VanS's. 

[NYRaider]

8 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Baker Mayfield is still better than Tua and Lawrence. 

That's pretty telling. Lol. 

I also never said it was a perfect science. If you want Young, have at it. Put his picture next to Lamar's across from your toilet for all I care. 

Given that you've slobbed the knob of Lamar, Spencer Rattler, and virtually every other flavor of the week QB while deriding Carr to comical levels while refusing to account for context as soon as it details your argument  while giving passes to your crushes left and right (#WinnerswinLoserslose), I've long since given up on listening to your horrid takes on QBs. 

Stick to evaluating WRs and OL. You're pretty decent at that. But your QB takes are hotter than VanS's. 

Baker Mayfield was absolutely terrible this season. My main point was that you cannot judge a QB based on the successes/failures of other players that have come out of the program.

Lamar Jackson is a great player, just got injured. Bryce Young is 19 years old and just had one of the greatest seasons in CFB history. He's a good NFL prospect and will likely be a top 5 pick next year. 

[NYRaider]

16 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

1. Notice, I never said any of them did. I said they all sucked.

2. Subjective excuses do not make a QB good. 

3. Still more talent than the Texans. 

4. And yet all he could muster was the horrid stat line he did, which makes his season even more underwhelming. 

Do this: Replace "Trevor Lawrence" with "Ian Book". Is he still being so staunchly defended? No. Because Book wasn't hyped up as the next coming of Jesus Christ himself. Lawrence, meanwhile, was. If not for the hyperbolic hype Lawrence was given, he would be Josh Rosen'd here in a couple of months because he just had one of the worst rookie seasons ever, regardless of supporting cast. What Lawrence actually showed was the same rare glimpses of playmaking that practically every high round bust shows. He didn't stand out from former busts in anything he did. Not positively, at least. Take away the preconceived narrative of the last 3 years that Lawrence was surefire and guaranteed for greatness, take all that ridiculous hype away. He was bad. Period. The only thing buoying him is the hype. And it's why everyone has to revert to his "elite traits", "excellent skill set", "generational prospect pedigree", "upside"- because what he showed on the field was nothing to brag about at all. And guess what every 1st round bust QB has? "Elite traits", "excellent skill sets", pedigree, "upside" most got the generatiomal talent or "transformational talent" label. Same song and dance. 

Every argument used to defend Trevor Lawrence right now is literally the same excuses we just went through for Sam Darnold. It's comical. 

What do the Texans have to do with anything? And Brandin Cooks is one of the best WR in the NFL, Pep Hamilton is one of the best coaches when it comes to mentoring young QB's in the NFL. 

Ian Book was in a favorable situation with one of the best coaches in the NFL, a top tier OL, and an elite RB to lean on. He still folded like a lawn chair when random guys like Siemen played pretty decent, lol.

Player A: 172 ypg, 10 TD, 12 INT (3.8%), 52% comp, 6.5 Y/A

Player B: 214 ypg, 12 TD, 17 INT (2.8%), 60% comp, 6.0 Y/A

Based on your logic, the Bills should've given up on Josh Allen after his rookie season. His numbers were worse then Trevor's and he was on a much more talented team. Why didn't they? Because 6'6" guys with plus athleticism and rocket arms do not grow on trees.

[ronjon1990]

6 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Baker Mayfield was absolutely terrible this season. My main point was that you cannot judge a QB based on the successes/failures of other players that have come out of the program.

Lamar Jackson is a great player, just got injured. Bryce Young is 19 years old and just had one of the greatest seasons in CFB history. He's a good NFL prospect and will likely be a top 5 pick next year. 

1. Sure you can. Trends are a thing. Though if that is all you gleaned from my post, fine. I'm not going to keep explaining it. There's literal little green check marks in it detailing my criteria, and it goes far beyond mere "where did they go". 

2. Keep telling yourself Lamar is great. He was atrocious this year and has never been a good QB, let alone a great  QB. He's trending downwards and hasn't improved as a QB. So little, in fact, that plenty of people have called for Baltimore to move on rather than pay him. 

3. More power to him. RG3 did the same. Tua did the same. Colt Brennan did the same. Brandon Doughty did the same. I think that Bryce Young is going to be awful once he's outside of a supporting cast leagues better than 99% of the teams he plays. 

[NYRaider]

But to be clear @ronjon1990 I don't think Trevor Lawrence is going to be very good. But I also don't think that QB's should be judged based on the program they played at, the most important thing is where they land in the NFL. Justin Herbert had a super productive rookie season, but he also landed on a team with a ton of talent around him. Even Carson Wentz, a player that looked absolutely broken last year, played pretty well once he went to a team with a stacked OL/run game.

[ronjon1990]

9 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

What do the Texans have to do with anything? And Brandin Cooks is one of the best WR in the NFL, Pep Hamilton is one of the best coaches when it comes to mentoring young QB's in the NFL. 

Ian Book was in a favorable situation with one of the best coaches in the NFL, a top tier OL, and an elite RB to lean on. He still folded like a lawn chair when random guys like Siemen played pretty decent, lol.

Player A: 172 ypg, 10 TD, 12 INT (3.8%), 52% comp, 6.5 Y/A

Player B: 214 ypg, 12 TD, 17 INT (2.8%), 60% comp, 6.0 Y/A

Based on your logic, the Bills should've given up on Josh Allen after his rookie season. His numbers were worse then Trevor's and he was on a much more talented team. Why didn't they? Because 6'6" guys with plus athleticism and rocket arms do not grow on trees.

That is objectively not true. 

Allen wasn't touted as a finished product and it was well known he needed a lot of time and help to improve. And his overall numbers were better, actually. Also, he played better. Much better. 

Allen was about as expected as a rookie. 

Lawrence was far worse as a rookie than practically anyone anticipated. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by ronjon1990