NYRaider Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 Just now, ronjon1990 said: 1. Sure you can. Trends are a thing. Though if that is all you gleaned from my post, fine. I'm not going to keep explaining it. There's literal little green check marks in it detailing my criteria, and it goes far beyond mere "where did they go". 2. Keep telling yourself Lamar is great. He was atrocious this year and has never been a good QB, let alone a great QB. He's trending downwards and hasn't improved as a QB. So little, in fact, that plenty of people have called for Baltimore to move on rather than pay him. 3. More power to him. RG3 did the same. Tua did the same. Colt Brennan did the same. Brandon Doughty did the same. I think that Bryce Young is going to be awful once he's outside of a supporting cast leagues better than 99% of the teams he plays. I still think Lamar is a very good player. The Ravens were 7-4 with Lamar this year and 1-5 without him. I think that Bryce will be a good NFL QB, strong arm, very mobile in the pocket, great at making plays outside the structure of the offense. I don't think he'll be a superstar but I don't think he'll be a total, complete bust either. RG3 was very good early in his career he just couldn't stay healthy. You keep dragging Tua but he's 13-8 as a starter and has had decent production. The hip injury clearly hurt his ability to throw down the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 minute ago, ronjon1990 said: That is objectively not true. Allen wasn't touted as a finished product and it was well known he needed a lot of time and help to improve. And his overall numbers were better, actually. Also, he played better. Much better. Allen was touted as a project coming into the NFL, his numbers were worse than Trevors. Significantly less accurate and turned the ball over at a much higher rate, he just wasn't asked to throw the ball 600 times like Trevor. He had a competent coaching staff and talented team around him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I still think Lamar is a very good player. The Ravens were 7-4 with Lamar this year and 1-5 without him. I think that Bryce will be a good NFL QB, strong arm, very mobile in the pocket, great at making plays outside the structure of the offense. I don't think he'll be a superstar but I don't think he'll be a total, complete bust either. RG3 was very good early in his career he just couldn't stay healthy. You keep dragging Tua but he's 13-8 as a starter and has had decent production. The hip injury clearly hurt his ability to throw down the field. Tua is a bottom 10 QB in the league. It's beyond clear Miami wants to replace him. And the number of suitors he would have is minimal, as is the likelihood that he represents an improvement over a team's current starting QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 Just now, ronjon1990 said: Tua is a bottom 10 QB in the league. It's beyond clear Miami wants to replace him. And the number of suitors he would have is minimal, as is the likelihood that he represents an improvement over a team's current starting QB. Tua is about the same level of player as someone like Baker Mayfield. Not great but about average and definitely better then more then 10 starting QB in the NFL. Someone will take a chance on Tua, the Panthers just traded picks for Sam Darnold and give him a chance to start. Miami wanting to trade for Watson just shows how poorly the franchise is being ran by their ownership. They just fired Flores who has been a good coach for them. And on draft night their front office wanted Herbert but they selected Tua because the owner said he could be a left handed Drew Brees despite the fact he was just average in terms of physical talent and was coming off of a broken hip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Allen was touted as a project coming into the NFL, his numbers were worse than Trevors. Significantly less accurate and turned the ball over at a much higher rate, he just wasn't asked to throw the ball 600 times like Trevor. He had a competent coaching staff and talented team around him. Josh Allen is also a statistical outlier to the nth degree. He was a project nobody expected to be good as a rookie. And he largely wasn't. He also made strides that have virtually never been seen in terms of improvement. I wouldn't even cite Allen in this case. It's like using Tom Brady as the standard measuring stick for a HoF QB. At that point, no QB ever deserves to be in the HoF ever again. That's why statistical outliers pose a problem. They're almost always a never before seen type of anomaly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Tua is about the same level of player as someone like Baker Mayfield. Not great but about average and definitely better then more then 10 starting QB in the NFL. Someone will take a chance on Tua, the Panthers just traded picks for Sam Darnold and give him a chance to start. Miami wanting to trade for Watson just shows how poorly the franchise is being ran by their ownership. They just fired Flores who has been a good coach for them. And on draft night their front office wanted Herbert but they selected Tua because the owner said he could be a left handed Drew Brees despite the fact he was just average in terms of physical talent and was coming off of a broken hip. And you know what? Shame on the Panthers for buying into the longstanding narrative that Darnold's natural ability, high upside, and elite traits were more indicative of him that what was seen in live action for 3 years in New York. I wouldn't have touched Darnold with a 100 yard stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: Josh Allen is also a statistical outlier to the nth degree. He was a project nobody expected to be good as a rookie. And he largely wasn't. He also made strides that have virtually never been seen in terms of improvement. I wouldn't even cite Allen in this case. It's like using Tom Brady as the standard measuring stick for a HoF QB. At that point, no QB ever deserves to be in the HoF ever again. That's why statistical outliers pose a problem. They're almost always a never before seen type of anomaly Josh Allen definitely was an outlier but the reason the Bills drafted him so highly and didn't immediately give up on him was because he had once in a decade arm talent. Matt Stafford's rookie stats: 226 ypg, 13 TD, 20 INT (5.3%), 53% comp, 6.0 Y/A Stafford was also the #1 overall pick and struggled as a rookie playing for a terrible organization but he actually had a HOF, elite WR to lean on with Calvin Johnson. Josh Allen took a leap when he got a top tier WR in Stefon Diggs, Kyler made a leap when he got to play with DeAndre Hopkins. Ryan Tannehill is another guy that struggled as a rookie and has developed into a good player. I don't think that Trevor will be great but saying he has no chance based on his rookie season is shortsighted. Although I agree that Jacksonville was probably the worst landing spot possible for him. Edited January 11, 2022 by NYRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 minute ago, ronjon1990 said: And you know what? Shame on the Panthers for buying into the longstanding narrative that Darnold's natural ability, high upside, and elite traits were more indicative of him that what was seen in live action for 3 years in New York. I wouldn't have touched Darnold with a 100 yard stick. I agree that it was a bad decision but I think Tannehill's success post Gase, Darnold's status as a former top 3 pick, and their belief in Joe Brady drove their decision making process. Tua will definitely get a chance to start for someone next season, he has been way better then guys like Darnold, Rosen, or Teddy have recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 I genuinely do not care about QB's though, Carr will be our starter moving forward. If Mayock is retained I just want to see what he does at WR. @ronjon1990 Since he was hired as our GM, his WR moves have included: • Trading a 3rd/5th for Antonio Brown (never played a snap here) • Gave Tyrell Williams a 3 yr/$33M deal (played 14 games for us) • Drafted Henry Ruggs #12 overall (played 20 games for us) • Traded a draft pick for Trevor Davis (lol) • Signed Nelly on a prove it deal and then let him walk after a productive season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 3 hours ago, NYRaider said: I still think Lamar is a very good player. The Ravens were 7-4 with Lamar this year and 1-5 without him. I think that Bryce will be a good NFL QB, strong arm, very mobile in the pocket, great at making plays outside the structure of the offense. I don't think he'll be a superstar but I don't think he'll be a total, complete bust either. RG3 was very good early in his career he just couldn't stay healthy. You keep dragging Tua but he's 13-8 as a starter and has had decent production. The hip injury clearly hurt his ability to throw down the field. Lamar is a great player. Just not a QB,he could of been the best WR ever but was miss cast in college and here we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 3 hours ago, NYRaider said: I agree that it was a bad decision but I think Tannehill's success post Gase, Darnold's status as a former top 3 pick, and their belief in Joe Brady drove their decision making process. Tua will definitely get a chance to start for someone next season, he has been way better then guys like Darnold, Rosen, or Teddy have recently. Beggars can't be choosy what other quarterback is there with his upside?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 7 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said: Beggars can't be choosy what other quarterback is there with his upside?? With Tua's upside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 13 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said: Lamar is a great player. Just not a QB,he could of been the best WR ever but was miss cast in college and here we are. The Ravens are 37-11 with Lamar starting and 5-10 without him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: The Ravens are 37-11 with Lamar starting and 5-10 without him. Please stop the man can't throw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: With Tua's upside? Injuries kill him. He already falling behind because of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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