Will Jimmy Graham Be Released?

[AZBearsFan]

13 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

My theory, Nagy thought Mitch was a better QB than he actually was, and at the same time Nagy thought he was a better OC than he actually is. This reamins to be seen though.

I'm not a big fan of Nagy's play-calling to say the least, but I also recognize how much the QB situation has hand-cuffed him and to what extent.

On a bad play, it's often hard at times to decipher, and separate, the differences between a bad play call, or a good play call ruined by poor player execution.

I see some good in Nagy's play-calling and I really do get his vision at times. And there are sometimes when it was the right call ruined by poor exception.

But it's been mainly his lack of late game decision, personal usage, and lack of taking advantage of a defensive weakness is what I'm worried about. 

I think there’s something to the idea of not necessarily focusing your gameplan around exploiting an opponent’s weakness IF you’re doing that because you’re playing to your offensive identity and dictating play successfully in doing so. We didn’t have any plays or concepts that fit that description under Mitch. 

[soulman]

21 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

My theory, Nagy thought Mitch was a better QB than he actually was, and at the same time Nagy thought he was a better OC than he actually is.

I'd back that theory.  Even at KC Nagy's experience calling plays was sketchy.

My feeling is that after having to suffer through three seasons of Fox and his nonsense Pace wanted a younger HC he could communicate well with.  I think Pace was also enamored of Nagy "X's" and "Os" schemes because they related more to modern NFL football but Nagy has yet prove his schemes or his play calling work.  It all may look great on paper but it's not translating to the field on game days.

While it's quite possible Trubisky's failure to pick up the offense is what's behind that it's also possible it just isn't that great of an offense.

So now we have yet two more QBs to prove Nagy's schemes work or don't work.  If Dalton and Fields struggle with "getting it" I think we have to admit that Nagy is far from the offense guru he was promoted as and that it's time to cash him out and move on again.  He can't keep firing and hiring new assistants every year selling the failures on them.

[dll2000]

On 5/30/2021 at 11:08 PM, soulman said:

I'd back that theory.  Even at KC Nagy's experience calling plays was sketchy.

My feeling is that after having to suffer through three seasons of Fox and his nonsense Pace wanted a younger HC he could communicate well with.  I think Pace was also enamored of Nagy "X's" and "Os" schemes because they related more to modern NFL football but Nagy has yet prove his schemes or his play calling work.  It all may look great on paper but it's not translating to the field on game days.

While it's quite possible Trubisky's failure to pick up the offense is what's behind that it's also possible it just isn't that great of an offense.

So now we have yet two more QBs to prove Nagy's schemes work or don't work.  If Dalton and Fields struggle with "getting it" I think we have to admit that Nagy is far from the offense guru he was promoted as and that it's time to cash him out and move on again.  He can't keep firing and hiring new assistants every year selling the failures on them.

There is a lot more to being a coach than X and Os.   X and Os by themselves is easy part.  You can cut and paste that.  

Adjusting the X and Os to fit your personnel is hard.   Game planning is hard.

Execution is hard.  Teaching fundamentals and insisting on perfection in same is hard. 

So many times I have watched a play on coaching tape and it breaks down in just one or two spots.   One or two guys doing something wrong or badly and as a result you have a bad play.   Where it was looking like an otherwise huge gain.

And I am forgiving of other guy just being better.  What can you do about that?   

But those aren’t things I am talking about.   It is flat bad technique or mistake in assignment that is ruining so many plays.  

Attention to detail and player accountability I think is were Nagy needs to grow more as a coach.  

I did see some growth last year from him there.  We will see if he falls back on bad habits again.  

 

 

[soulman]

15 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

There is a lot more to being a coach than X and Os.   X and Os by themselves is easy part.  You can cut and paste that.  

Adjusting the X and Os to fit your personnel is hard.   Game planning is hard.

Execution is hard.  Teaching fundamentals and insisting on perfection in same is hard. 

So many times I have watched a play on coaching tape and it breaks down in just one or two spots.   One or two guys doing something wrong or badly and as a result you have a bad play.   Where it was looking like an otherwise huge gain.

And I am forgiving of other guy just being better.  What can you do about that?   

But those aren’t things I am talking about.   It is flat bad technique or mistake in assignment that is ruining so many plays.  

Attention to detail and player accountability I think is were Nagy needs to grow more as a coach.  

I did see some growth last year from him there.  We will see if he falls back on bad habits again.  

 

 

I'm not as anti-Nagy as I may sound at times but I am frustrated hearing him give the same old speeches over and over about execution and discipline only to watch the same failures take place the next week.  It does get a little old after the 25th time you've heard it.

Maybe it was growing up in and around the Lombardi era where execution and discipline were paramount if you expected to play for him and there were no exceptions.  If you got beat it was because they other guys were better not because you beat yourselves.

I believe Heinz made a good point in recent post when he said Nagy is about out of excuses.  He has better personnel in most positions than he has ever had and a coaching staff he's sifted through over three previous seasons to get who he wants to help him as HC.

The front office has spent boldy on both player and coaching talent so it's becoming put up or shut up time in the Windy City.  I'm not expecting a Super Bowl run but I am thinking that scoring more than 17-20 points a game shouldn't be too much to ask for now.

[dll2000]

47 minutes ago, soulman said:

I'm not as anti-Nagy as I may sound at times but I am frustrated hearing him give the same old speeches over and over about execution and discipline only to watch the same failures take place the next week.  It does get a little old after the 25th time you've heard it.

Maybe it was growing up in and around the Lombardi era where execution and discipline were paramount if you expected to play for him and there were no exceptions.  If you got beat it was because they other guys were better not because you beat yourselves.

I believe Heinz made a good point in recent post when he said Nagy is about out of excuses.  He has better personnel in most positions than he has ever had and a coaching staff he's sifted through over three previous seasons to get who he wants to help him as HC.

The front office has spent boldy on both player and coaching talent so it's becoming put up or shut up time in the Windy City.  I'm not expecting a Super Bowl run but I am thinking that scoring more than 17-20 points a game shouldn't be too much to ask for now.

There is a reason guys like Lombardi can go wherever and win for their era.  They can win with theirs and they can with yours.   To a point of course, talent still matters a great deal.  

Because the skills I posted above are not a dime a dozen and coaching matters more in football than any other sport.

Because football has more variables than any other sport.  It has 11 moving pieces on field and they all serve a different function.

Now NFL has leveled playing field quite a bit, with cap and draft order and player movement every 4 years or so.   Harder to implement a program and a system in that environment.   Even with all that coaching is still incredibly valuable.

 

[soulman]

7 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

There is a reason guys like Lombardi can go wherever and win for their era.  They can win with theirs and they can with yours.   To a point of course, talent still matters a great deal.  

As Bum Phillips pointed out about Don Shula in how own homespun kinda way.

But don't great coaches also create the kind of talent they need to win out of those they have or can acquire?

[dll2000]

35 minutes ago, soulman said:

As Bum Phillips pointed out about Don Shula in how own homespun kinda way.

But don't great coaches also create the kind of talent they need to win out of those they have or can acquire?

In league I coached in for a time they had two levels of play.   An elite level for best 18 or so kids and the rest got made into as many teams as you had kids left over.

Well a good friend of mine and I coached one of the B teams of kids.      

Well we worked fundamentals with them like crazy for a whole season and they really maximized their abilities with learned skill.  We won the B league championship with those kids.  

The next year was really funny to me as a number of these kids who were 'bums' were selected to A team because they dominated early drills in selection period.   

But that team ended their season kinda terrible because those kids really weren't great athletes, the other coaches were correct in their original assessment of their natural abilities.    

You see that kind of work has to be maintained and reinforced.   It doesn't just stick for long periods and it doesn't just happen.