Off-Season Casualties?

[Hunter2_1]

16 hours ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said:

If he becomes a Free Agent my Jets are going to go after him guns blazing due to A.) Absolutely fully loaded in top 5 available salary cap space. B.) Even more fully loaded in 2023 available Salary Cap Space next Offseason and C.) CB being one of our biggest weaknesses.

What J.C. Jackson has done @ CB within a league/era that makes CB play extremely difficult has been more impressive than even #21 Primetime Deion Sanders was @ CB (in terms of INTs) throughout their 1st 4 seasons of play. 

Deion Sandes 1st 4 years = 17 INTs.

J.C. Jackson 1st 4 years = 25 INTs.

There is a lot more to CB play than just INTs (just ask #24 Darrelle Revis Island) but I never thought I'd live to see the day where I'd ever witness an NFL CB who knew how to bait QBs into throwing INTs as #21 Primetime Deion Sanders once did; until J.C. Jackson (himself) happened.

This kid is ranked 9th All-Time in Interceptions (throughout his first 4 years of play).

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-interceptions-first-4-years

Night Train Lane = 33 INTs (drafted 1952).

Emlen Tunnell = 33 INTs (drafted 1948). 

Lem Barney = 32 INTs (drafted 1967).

Goose Gonsoulin = 30 INTs (drafted 1960). 

Bobby Dillon = 29 INTs (drafted 1952).. 

Paul Krause = 28 INTs (drafted 1964). 

Milt Davis = 27 INTs (drafted 1957). 

Don Doll = 26 INTs (drafted 1949).

J.C. JACKSON = 25 INTs. 

✓ What this kid has done as a true #1 lockdown CB of an Interceptions-Artist has never once been seen nor done before; at least not within modern day 🏈 it hasn't. 

But you know what's even more nuts? 

I don't think J.C. Jackson became a full-time starter until year #3 which means throughout the previous two seasons of 2020 and 2021 he's combined for 17 freaking Interceptions!

And outside of only Night Train Lane's 17 Interceptions throughout a two year period; I'm not sure if it's ever been done before?

~ I'm an FSU fan so of course I love Jalen Ramsey but this kid J.C. Jackson is worth every penny that Jalen Ramsey is because J.C. Jackson is more than just an INT MACHINE; he's also a lockdown/blanket of a CB (in coverage) and can play within both man to man as well as zone coverage.

The last time my Jets stole a N.E. Patriots SUPERSTAR was #28 Curtis my favorite Martin; and I think J.C. Jackson would love to play against Bill Belichick 2x per season (moving forward).

Whoever you add to your roster never elevates your team. He sinks with them. Every time

 

[Hunter2_1]

The remuneration we will be getting for letting Gilmore and JC go is terrible, net-wise. This isn't a comment about whether we should or shouldn't have let them go or try to bring them back, but if you look at the total returns for both of these great CBs - it's pitiful

(pre-empting JC's return of a comp pick or something?)

Edited March 6, 2022 by Hunter2_1

[DefenseWinsChampionships]

Just now, Hunter2_1 said:

Whoever you add to your roster never elevates your team. He sinks with them. Every time

 

Not true. 

The Jets are fully loaded in Available Salary Cap Space this 2022 offseason and even more fully loaded in Available Salary Cap Space come next years 2023 offseason.

And more importantly we've got the NFLs #1 Ranked and Rated Draft Capital within the entire league. 

• 1998 AFC Championship Game (1-15 in 1996). 

• 2009 and 2010 AFC Championship Game Appearances (first times since 1998). 

I've seen Jets rebuilds over the years and never once has our future been so bright in regards to our future Franchise QB under Rookie contract + absolutely fully loaded in Available Salary Cap Space + A++ NFL draft capital + an awesome leader in Robert Saleh as HC. It's finally exciting again.

J.C. Jackson wouldn't sink us. He'd improve our entire Secondary especially once getting pass rusher Carl Lawson back + an elite pass rushing EDGE prospect in Kayvon Thibodeaux @ #4 Overall. 

J.C. Jackson behind our up and coming Robert Saleh D-Line pass rush? It'll be almost as exciting as our #24 Revis/Rex days. 

[Deadpulse]

I am not convinced that JC Jackson isnt another Malcolm Butler type smokescreen whose good with BB and the scheme but won't be nearly as successful once he leaves. 

[Crimmage]

16 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

I am not convinced that JC Jackson isnt another Malcolm Butler type smokescreen whose good with BB and the scheme but won't be nearly as successful once he leaves. 

His INT stats are misleading, I remember reading somewhere that he got over half of his INT against some truly awful QB's. This isn't to say that I don't want him back.. I think he is still very good.. but not Ramsey good. He is a young, top 10 corner. If he wants to set the market, I totally understand BB walking away. 

 

My only issue with the scenario of him leaving is not tagging and trading him. I see no reason why a team wouldn't want to trade for him so they don't have to get into a bidding war with all of the NFL in a free agent class which has no top end CBs. He is worth a 1st imo .. especially from a team like the Eagles who have multiple or a 2nd from a team which has multiple like Atlanta.. if BB lets him walk for nothing, that's where I'll have the issue. 

 

Having no JC changes the entire defense ( imagine if McCourty is gone too, yikes!) .. and Mac doesn't have the experience / weapons to take over and win high scoring games week to week. 

 

If JC is gone, BB needs to be able to trade him for at least a 2nd rounder or it is a failure on his part. 

[DefenseWinsChampionships]

1 hour ago, Deadpulse said:

I am not convinced that JC Jackson isnt another Malcolm Butler type smokescreen whose good with BB and the scheme but won't be nearly as successful once he leaves. 

The same Butler who only had 8 career INTs throughout his 4 years in N.E?

Because J.C. Jackson already has 17 INTs during just his last two years alone. 

Bill is a good Defensive Coach but J.C. Jackson is a beast with or without him.

Because how many CBs throughout 25+ years of head coaching has ever recorded 17 INTs during a two year period? 

The answer is none (zero).

Even Ty Law during his prime 5 years under Bill Belichick in N.E could only record 16 INTs in comparison to Jackson's career 25 and/or 17 in only two years. 

Bill is good. But Jackson is just different. Bill can scheme his heart out but it's Jackson who's out there reading QBs eyes, defending elite WRs and picking off the ball at a rate that has never been seen before (within the modern era of football) since Deion Sanders and Richard Sherman (but even BETTER).

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-defensive-ints-before-turning-27

That is not Bill Belichick (27 years of evidence) that is absolute Player/CB greatness. 

[DefenseWinsChampionships]

1 hour ago, Crimmage said:

His INT stats are misleading, I remember reading somewhere that he got over half of his INT against some truly awful QB's. This isn't to say that I don't want him back.. I think he is still very good.. but not Ramsey good. He is a young, top 10 corner. If he wants to set the market, I totally understand BB walking away. 

 

My only issue with the scenario of him leaving is not tagging and trading him. I see no reason why a team wouldn't want to trade for him so they don't have to get into a bidding war with all of the NFL in a free agent class which has no top end CBs. He is worth a 1st imo .. especially from a team like the Eagles who have multiple or a 2nd from a team which has multiple like Atlanta.. if BB lets him walk for nothing, that's where I'll have the issue. 

 

Having no JC changes the entire defense ( imagine if McCourty is gone too, yikes!) .. and Mac doesn't have the experience / weapons to take over and win high scoring games week to week. 

 

If JC is gone, BB needs to be able to trade him for at least a 2nd rounder or it is a failure on his part. 

Well the whole world knows N.E only has $9,307,795 in available Salary Cap Space. 

By not trading away draft capital it'll do one of two things to N.E. force them to lose him for nothing (FA) or watch N.E go into absolute Salary Cap Hell (by paying Jackson); therefore it's a win/win situation for the NFL. 

As a Jets fan? If I were our GM? I'd offer N.E our two 5th round picks for him. Take it or leave it or risk losing him for absolutely nothingness. 

I don't think N.E has any NFL leverage here. It's either pay him or lose him but why reward the Patriots with a 1st round pick?

When this draft class is loaded in 1st round CB talent. 

[Crimmage]

The salary cap isn't an excuse for not paying JC, they can easily create an additional ~40 Million in cap space. 

I'm also not convinced that this draft has as many elite CB's as suggested. That and if a team is looking to compete, they are probably going to want JC over drafting a CB in the first.. he is plug and play. 

 

If the Patriots believe he is a top 5 CB, you pay him.. if they don't.. they should tag and trade him. I would expect at minimum a 2nd round pick in return.. but another reason for them to tag and trade him would be to keep him away from the AFC East. Some teams off the top of my head who could trade for him: 

• Giants ( if they trade Bradberry, allowing them to go offense with their 2 firsts) 
• Texans ( Simply because of Caserio relationship)
• Falcons ( 2 2nd rounders.. could create a great secondary) 
• Broncos ( 2 2nd rounders.. could create a great secondary) 
• Eagles  ( 3 1st rounders .. playoff team, could want an immediate impact guy)
• Cardinals ( In that division they need great CB's.. they fell off second half of the year and could want to make a splash) 
• Raiders ( Need CB help, Ziegler / McDaniels know JC.. could easily see them do a JC & Agholor package deal for picks .. Mcdaniels is going to want to win asap in Vegas)
• Cowboys ( Diggs and Jackson would be nuts next to one another... never count out the Cowboys trying to make a splash.. especially after getting rid of Cooper) 

 

I think there will be a pretty large market for teams to fight for JC. If you tag him all of those teams will be calling the Patriots to see what they want for him. A 2nd round pick isn't crazy to ask for a top 10 CB. 

[Deadpulse]

2 hours ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said:

The same Butler who only had 8 career INTs throughout his 4 years in N.E?

Because J.C. Jackson already has 17 INTs during just his last two years alone. 

Bill is a good Defensive Coach but J.C. Jackson is a beast with or without him.

Because how many CBs throughout 25+ years of head coaching has ever recorded 17 INTs during a two year period? 

The answer is none (zero).

Even Ty Law during his prime 5 years under Bill Belichick in N.E could only record 16 INTs in comparison to Jackson's career 25 and/or 17 in only two years. 

Bill is good. But Jackson is just different. Bill can scheme his heart out but it's Jackson who's out there reading QBs eyes, defending elite WRs and picking off the ball at a rate that has never been seen before (within the modern era of football) since Deion Sanders and Richard Sherman (but even BETTER).

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-defensive-ints-before-turning-27

That is not Bill Belichick (27 years of evidence) that is absolute Player/CB greatness. 

INT are not the end all be all of playing CB. Also, context matters. Butler spent the majority of his career in NE as the #1 corner. Offenses didn't target him and his skill set was and claim to fame was his ability to stick with receivers like glue - not read QB's and jump balls. Meanwhile JC spent the majority of his career here as the #2 to Gilmore's #1. 

[Deadpulse]

2 hours ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said:

As a Jets fan? If I were our GM? I'd offer N.E our two 5th round picks for him. Take it or leave it or risk losing him for absolutely nothingness. 

lol you do know about comp picks right? Walking for nothing doesn't exist anymore. We are pretty much guaranteed a 3rd round comp pick based of salaray projections. So why would we take two 5ths from a division rival?

[DefenseWinsChampionships]

1 hour ago, Deadpulse said:

INT are not the end all be all of playing CB. Also, context matters. Butler spent the majority of his career in NE as the #1 corner. Offenses didn't target him and his skill set was and claim to fame was his ability to stick with receivers like glue - not read QB's and jump balls. Meanwhile JC spent the majority of his career here as the #2 to Gilmore's #1. 

I know about CBs who QBs were scared of; #24 Darrelle Revis. They wouldn't even look his way due to locking up WRs one on one with no Safety help (whatsoever) while holding guys like Prime Calvin MEGATRON Johnson to his career low of 1 catch for like 10 yards, Reggie Wayne to 1 catch for 1 yard in the playoffs during Reggie Wayne's career year etc and the list goes on and on. 

What's scary is #24's 2010 was even better (because QBs wouldn't challenge him anymore after 2009).

But it's more than just INTs for Jackson (unlike Diggs of Dallas) because last year when in man to man coverage and against teams #1 best WRs he only allowed a QB completion percentage against of only 50.8% (despite 112 targets) and also held QBs to a QB Rating against of only 51.8 throughout those 112 targets; and that is absolutely incredible.

This kid is a Superstar CB; I love his game.

Edited March 6, 2022 by DefenseWinsChampionships

[Deadpulse]

2 minutes ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said:

I know about CBs who QBs were scared of; #24 Darrelle Revis. They wouldn't even look his way due to locking up WRs one on one with no Safety help (whatsoever) while holding guys like Prime Calvin MEGATRON Johnson to his career low of 1 catch for like 10 yards, Reggie Wayne to 1 catch for 1 yard in the playoffs during Reggie Wayne's career year etc and the list goes on and on. 

But it's more than just INTs for Jackson (unlike Diggs of Dallas) because last year when in man to man coverage against teams #1 best WRs he allowed a QB completion percentage of only 50.8% (despite 112 targets) and held QBs to a QB Rating against of only 51.8 throughout those 112 targets; and that is incredible.

This kid is a Superstar CB; I love his game.

dufuq does Revis have to do with anything? My point is there is nothing in JC's game that convinces me he will have success anywhere. You have yet to provide a reason why that isn't true other OMG INTs WTH

[DefenseWinsChampionships]

8 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

dufuq does Revis have to do with anything? My point is there is nothing in JC's game that convinces me he will have success anywhere. You have yet to provide a reason why that isn't true other OMG INTs WTH

Last year when in man to man coverage against teams #1 best WRs he allowed a QB completion percentage of only 50.8% (despite 112 targets) and held QBs to a QB Rating against of only 51.8 throughout those 112 targets; and that is incredible.

It's more than Bill Belichick; this kid is a superstar true #1 CB with crazy ball hawking abilities too.

[Deadpulse]

1 minute ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said:

Last year when in man to man coverage against teams #1 best WRs he allowed a QB completion percentage of only 50.8% (despite 112 targets) and held QBs to a QB Rating against of only 51.8 throughout those 112 targets; and that is incredible.

It's more than Bill Belichick; this kid is a superstar true #1 CB with crazy ball hawking abilities too.

and Malcolm Butlers #'s were better. Next point please. 

[DefenseWinsChampionships]

11 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

and Malcolm Butlers #'s were better. Next point please. 

Quote me his numbers?