The Marvel Cinematic Universe- Silver Surfer cast

[theJ]

4 minutes ago, Acgott said:

@diamondbull424 I absolutely hate having Killmonger as Panther. Then shove Storm in there as well? They were together for like 2 years. 

Storm is marrying Wolverine, not your panther replacement.

I prefer Namor as the villain, but Shadow King wouldn’t be terrible.

They already hinted at Namor in Endgame.  It's going to be him unless Boseman's death throws that off somehow.

[diamondbull424]

8 minutes ago, Acgott said:

Yeah, that’s a terrible idea. It’s makes a little sense for M’Baku, but doing anything besides from a recast hurts Shuri. If not T’Challa, then it’s Shuri

Please explain how M’Baku makes more sense. He has no heart shaped herb. He did not ever defeat a depowered T’Challa like N’Jadaka had done, quite easily. While important in the narrative of the movie, he also didn’t have nearly as much a following as Killmonger. There’s a reason why T’Challa was compared to MLK and Killmonger to Malcolm X. If there can be no T’Challa than redeeming Killmonger makes more sense than either M’Baku or Shuri. Again, it’s far easier to fix his “death” problem than to fix the no heart shaped herb problem.

We also have had many rumors about Killmonger returning for BP2 since early 2019. We’ve also have seen Loki, a villain who wasn’t shown to die on screen return in many movies after the fact until. So it’s not as if him still being alive is out of left field for the MCU and some laughable notion. 

40 minutes ago, theJ said:

I mean, we don't see it because it's a PG-13 movie.  You wanted to see his eyes roll back into head or something?  We see him pull the knife out, then a far shot of him falling over.  BP makes no move to do anything.

He died.

If they bring him back, it's a soap opera move.  And i'll call him Zombie Killmonger.

EDIT: there has to be a sense of finality with "death" within this universe.  Otherwise deaths like Piettro Maximoff's are meaningless.  Plot twist and he's back!

This isn’t too difficult. We’ve seen Loki seemingly “die” 3 times now and each time he comes back to life in some way, shape, or form.

BP allowing Killmonger to die was the most logical conclusion to that ending, however in light of recent events... he’s literally the only person that makes sense from a capable warrior with increased physical abilities perspective.

It’s far easier and far less corny to write him into the role by simply saying that T’Challa was too sympathetic to let his cousin die, then to act like Chadwick Boseman was just some other dude and he’s replaced by a talent scout process across Wakanda to find the next Black Panther... someone who was too weak to be shown in any capacity across these wars for Wakanda.

Whats more we also never get one of the most powerful comic book moments in history as Storm marries Black Panther in front of the whole of Wakanda, the Avengers, the X-Men, etc. if Shuri takes over.

The thing is there’s no “easy” solution to this narrative problem. He was too important for black culture to just write off as another dude. It would also be highly disrespectful. Shuri makes sense from some perspectives, but we’re mostly in agreement that she doesn’t make sense from many others.

But I don’t agree that proposing Killmonger as an option is laughable. Otherwise it’s just as laughable to replace T’Challa with some random.

[theJ]

2 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

This isn’t too difficult. We’ve seen Loki seemingly “die” 3 times now and each time he comes back to life in some way, shape, or form.

BP allowing Killmonger to die was the most logical conclusion to that ending, however in light of recent events... he’s literally the only person that makes sense from a capable warrior with increased physical abilities perspective.

It’s far easier and far less corny to write him into the role by simply saying that T’Challa was too sympathetic to let his cousin die, then to act like Chadwick Boseman was just some other dude and he’s replaced by a talent scout process across Wakanda to find the next Black Panther... someone who was too weak to be shown in any capacity across these wars for Wakanda.

Whats more we also never get one of the most powerful comic book moments in history as Storm marries Black Panther in front of the whole of Wakanda, the Avengers, the X-Men, etc. if Shuri takes over.

The thing is there’s no “easy” solution to this narrative problem. He was too important for black culture to just write off as another dude. It would also be highly disrespectful. Shuri makes sense from some perspectives, but we’re mostly in agreement that she doesn’t make sense from many others.

But I don’t agree that proposing Killmonger as an option is laughable. Otherwise it’s just as laughable to replace T’Challa with some random.

That was part of Loki's ability.  It was set up before it happened to be believable.

This is fiction, but still you expect some rules of the universe to be obeyed.  Dead is dead.  It will be far easier to convince the audience that someone else has to step up, bc irl that's exactly what would happen.  You can make the audience buy that by showing the story and allowing people to care about it.

[theJ]

9 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Again, it’s far easier to fix his “death” problem than to fix the no heart shaped herb problem.

You did watch the Hulk and Captain America, right?

[Deadpulse]

24 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Let the character he helped bring to life continue.  

[diamondbull424]

32 minutes ago, Acgott said:

@diamondbull424 I absolutely hate having Killmonger as Panther. Then shove Storm in there as well? They were together for like 2 years. 

Storm is marrying Wolverine, not your panther replacement.

I prefer Namor as the villain, but Shadow King wouldn’t be terrible.

I got you. My thing is Namor made complete sense for BP2, with T’Challa. They were rivals throughout the comics.

But now we’re in unprecedented territory. There is no precedent for an actor dying while in his prime and that impacting the entire MCU framework. Easter eggs can come into play for later foreshadowing.

I just think there needs to be some greater narrative impact for T’Challa dying then just writing him off and doing an American Idol type Wakanda search to find the next guy. And there are few villains that would have any business going at Wakanda in the first place... at least ones that haven’t been converted to heroes already (M’Baku was never an anti-hero in the comics) or “died” (Killmonger and Klaw). Of the two the only one not definitively dead is Killmonger. He’s also the only other person who has the heart shaped herb powers flowing through him not naked T’Challa. I’d rather he stay dead as well because that ending was so powerful... but he’s one of the most sensical options that doesn’t completely disrespect T’Challa’s legacy. The other is Shuri... but i have issues with that for other reasons.

In terms of Ororo being introduced in BP2 there was already speculation of Storm being introduced into the MCU by way of BP. It also happens that the villain that controls her for part of her comic origin is someone with a power that can make sense in infiltrating Wakanda, someone that doesn’t rely on brute force, but rather cunning, manipulation, and mutant abilities. Someone already on the African continent that has been around since time immemorial. Someone that could make sense in taking down someone as powerful as T’Challa. I don’t pretend to be a screenwriter so I’m sure someone could take my idea and present a better result, but still I don’t find it laughable. It’s an idea as any other, with flaws, sure. But offers some narrative solutions.

[Deadpulse]

1 minute ago, diamondbull424 said:

In terms of Ororo being introduced in BP2 there was already speculation of Storm being introduced into the MCU by way of BP. It also happens that the villain that controls her for part of her comic origin is someone with a power that can make sense in infiltrating Wakanda, someone that doesn’t rely on brute force, but rather cunning, manipulation, and mutant abilities. Someone already on the African continent that has been around since time immemorial. Someone that could make sense in taking down someone as powerful as T’Challa. I don’t pretend to be a screenwriter so I’m sure someone could take my idea and present a better result, but still I don’t find it laughable. It’s an idea as any other, with flaws, sure. But offers some narrative solutions.

Are you legitimately suggesting Apocalypse for a BP flick? Seems out there

[diamondbull424]

17 minutes ago, theJ said:

You did watch the Hulk and Captain America, right?

I did, I also saw Thor and all the other films with Loki in it where he came back to life.

Whats more scientists spent years trying to perfect the super soldier serum and they could never duplicate it again after Cap. All their failed efforts produced those in the weapon x programs and/or The Hulk, etc.

So it’s not a very logical take in expecting even the most brilliant person on the planet to just figure out a solution to the heart shaped herb problem within a couple years without seeing incredibly destructive consequences.

[theJ]

1 minute ago, diamondbull424 said:

I did, I also saw Thor and all the other films with Loki in it where he came back to life.

Whats more scientists spent years trying to perfect the super soldier serum and they could never duplicate it again after Cap. All their failed efforts produced those in the weapon x programs and/or The Hulk, etc.

So it’s not a very logical take in expecting even the most brilliant person on the planet to just figure out a solution to the heart shaped herb problem within a couple years without seeing incredibly destructive consequences.

Yeah, but again, that was part of Loki's abilities which were set up before the death.  This would be a total retcon.

Retcon's are dumb.

Someone else suggested too to just give the suit the powers.  That's probably the easier answer.  We've already seen that with IM and War Machine/Iron Patriot.  It would work here too.

[MacReady]

Let’s not say there’s no precedent for an actor dying between films of a series.

Richard Harris died after two Harry Potter movies and Harry Potter went on for 6 more movies and about a billion dollars.

They’re not going with Killmonger.  They’re not going with Shuri.  They’re recasting.

Just like they recast Hulk and that Iron Man friend guy.

Yes, Boseman died.  That does not mean the character he brought to life has to die.

[diamondbull424]

1 minute ago, theJ said:

Yeah, but again, that was part of Loki's abilities which were set up before the death.  This would be a total retcon.

Retcon's are dumb.

Someone else suggested too to just give the suit the powers.  That's probably the easier answer.  We've already seen that with IM and War Machine/Iron Patriot.  It would work here too.

But that is a retcon. The suit gives certain powers attributed to the vibranium, but it does not supply the individual with increased durability and athletic prowess. That’s far more explicitly set up in the narrative than the idea of Killmonger actually being dead. He took a mortal wound. These people literally healed a dude that was mortally wounded by a bullet, took a far longer time to transport him to Wakanda (than it would take to lift Killmonger to a medical bay), and then treat said mortal wounds and heal him by the next day.

Its far easier to transport a dude with a similar mortal wound to a Wakandan medical bay while in Wakanda. If that’s not sensical than it’s not sensical for Everett Ross to have survived his gunshot wound in transport.

[Deadpulse]

1 minute ago, diamondbull424 said:

But that is a retcon. The suit gives certain powers attributed to the vibranium, but it does not supply the individual with increased durability and athletic prowess. That’s far more explicitly set up in the narrative than the idea of Killmonger actually being dead. He took a mortal wound. These people literally healed a dude that was mortally wounded by a bullet, took a far longer time to transport him to Wakanda (than it would take to lift Killmonger to a medical bay), and then treat said mortal wounds and heal him by the next day.

Its far easier to transport a dude with a similar mortal wound to a Wakandan medical bay while in Wakanda. If that’s not sensical than it’s not sensical for Everett Ross to have survived his gunshot wound in transport.

This is a solid point I did not consider. 

[theJ]

5 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

But that is a retcon. The suit gives certain powers attributed to the vibranium, but it does not supply the individual with increased durability and athletic prowess. That’s far more explicitly set up in the narrative than the idea of Killmonger actually being dead. He took a mortal wound. These people literally healed a dude that was mortally wounded by a bullet, took a far longer time to transport him to Wakanda (than it would take to lift Killmonger to a medical bay), and then treat said mortal wounds and heal him by the next day.

Its far easier to transport a dude with a similar mortal wound to a Wakandan medical bay while in Wakanda. If that’s not sensical than it’s not sensical for Everett Ross to have survived his gunshot wound in transport.

We see no move for BP to do that in that movie.  It's assumed they leave his death alone, based on the end of that movie.  Which would make the move a retcon.

11 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Let’s not say there’s no precedent for an actor dying between films of a series.

Richard Harris died after two Harry Potter movies and Harry Potter went on for 6 more movies and about a billion dollars.

They’re not going with Killmonger.  They’re not going with Shuri.  They’re recasting.

Just like they recast Hulk and that Iron Man friend guy.

Yes, Boseman died.  That does not mean the character he brought to life has to die.

Yeah the more i think about this, the more it makes sense.  These guys have these things planned out years in advance.  The death of an actor/actress, or the inability for them to the play the role can't make them change their script.  Everything is tied too integrally.  

They probably recast him.  Even if everyone hates that.

[diamondbull424]

6 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Let’s not say there’s no precedent for an actor dying between films of a series.

Richard Harris died after two Harry Potter movies and Harry Potter went on for 6 more movies and about a billion dollars.

They’re not going with Killmonger.  They’re not going with Shuri.  They’re recasting.

Just like they recast Hulk and that Iron Man friend guy.

Yes, Boseman died.  That does not mean the character he brought to life has to die.

This is ignorant to even attribute the impact of those characters to the impact that Boseman had within the community. The Hulk grossed $264.8m, far less than the $1.29B of Black Panther. It also happened at the very beginning of the MCU before things had been as interwoven and set in stone.

Within Harry Potter, replacing an old guy with a white beard that just has to look old... isn’t the same as replacing Boseman. He was one of the most well known actors in the world. Surely a top 5 black actor. Acting as if he’s just some other guy is incredibly disrespectful. You don’t recast a Will Smith or Denzel Washington or Samuel L Jackson in the middle of an iconic role. And behind those guys, Boseman was the next most prominent black actor in Hollywood in what was one of the most iconic roles of all time.

Just recasting him would be on of the most disrespectful actions. I’m sure I wouldn’t be the only one within the community that would cancel Marvel for such a distasteful transgression.

[MacReady]

Lol yeah you’d cancel Marvel right up until you saw the first trailer.  I’m not going to get into it, but you’re cringey.