Mox Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 @THE DUKE Coach: Ime Udoka PG: Dejounte Murray SG: Tyler Herro SF: Franz Wagner PF: Evan Mobley C : Joel Embiid BN: Jonas Valančiūnas, C BN: Jalen Green, SG BN: Mike Conley, PG BN: Obi Toppin, F BN: Luke Kennard, GF BN : Monte Morris, PG BN: Reggie Bullock, F Minute Shares: PG: Dejounte Murray (33), Mike Conley (15), Monte Morris (0) SG: Tyler Herro (33), Jalen Green (15) SF: Franz Wagner (28), Luke Kennard (10), Jalen Green (10), Reggie Bullock (0) PF: Evan Mobley (33), Obi Toppin (10), Franz Wagner (5) C : Joel Embiid (34), Jonas Valančiūnas (14) Minutes: Joel Embiid (34) Dejounte Murray (33) Franz Wagner (33) Evan Mobley (33) Tyler Herro (33) Jalen Green (25) Mike Conley (15) Jonas Valančiūnas (14) Luke Kennard (10) Obi Toppin (10) Monte Morris (0) Reggie Bullock (0) @MKnight82 PG Cade Cunningham, Patty Mills, Gary Payton II SG Damian Lillard, Malik Monk SF Paul George, RJ Barrett PF John Collins, Tobias Harris, Brandon Clarke C Mitchell Robinson, Onyeka Okongwu Coach: Mike Budenholzer Let them defend their teams before voting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinneasGage Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 i like dukes team better. feel like it works better. positionally, i like murray more than cade at this moment. edge to dame over herro. PG over Franz. Mobley over Collins. Embiid way over Mitchell. just looking at the teams on paper though i just understand dukes team more. everyone can handle the rock. murray has space to drive and kick to 2,3,5 outside and those guys can all drive and kick too. it just a pretty team imo. defense is great. a little less D from mknight. less switchy. like the spacing think it works offerensively. i think mknights bench may offer some more versatility. i'll let mknight convince me if we wants to, but i'm kinda leaning duke still, but it's kinda close, so i won't vote yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted June 7, 2022 Author Share Posted June 7, 2022 Questions for Duke? How do you plan on overcoming the lack of spacing, lack of perimeter defense and inexperience your team has? Questions for MKnight? How do you keep everybody happy with one ball and so many on-ball guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DUKE Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 38 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: Questions for Duke? How do you plan on overcoming the lack of spacing, lack of perimeter defense and inexperience your team has? Most everyone on my team can shoot the 3 ball to help with the spacing, and if they collapse the middle is why I targeted Kennard to be my 3 point sniper off the bench. I have a few guys who can create their own shots and penetrate and why i added Green to be a X-Factor off the bench. Jonas was my first bench pick, but mostly so I would always have a significant inside presence and the added length with Mobley and Franz will help defend the outside some. Kennard isn't a slouch on D either as my 3/D guy. Even most of my guards outside of Conley run 6'4"+ with long wingspans. That length is going to help on defense. Given the makeup of these teams, I have plenty of veteran leadership with Conley, Embiid, and while 3 of my 10 who get minutes are rookies, i'm not asking any of those three to carry the load in any one aspect of the team, and while my other players are young for the most part, most have multiple years as NBA starters. Talent, youth, and athleticism are all over the place, tempered by a few leaders with the veteran savvy of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted June 7, 2022 Author Share Posted June 7, 2022 1 minute ago, THE DUKE said: Most everyone on my team can shoot the 3 ball to help with the spacing, and if they collapse the middle is why I targeted Kennard to be my 3 point sniper off the bench. I have a few guys who can create their own shots and penetrate and why i added Green to be a X-Factor off the bench. Jonas was my first bench pick, but mostly so I would always have a significant inside presence and the added length with Mobley and Franz will help defend the outside some. Kennard isn't a slouch on D either as my 3/D guy. Even most of my guards outside of Conley run 6'4"+ with long wingspans. That length is going to help on defense. Given the makeup of these teams, I have plenty of veteran leadership with Conley, Embiid, and while 3 of my 10 who get minutes are rookies, i'm not asking any of those three to carry the load in any one aspect of the team, and while my other players are young for the most part, most have multiple years as NBA starters. Talent, youth, and athleticism are all over the place, tempered by a few leaders with the veteran savvy of the game. I can buy the theory that you have such tremendous length that it shrinks the court thus negating the perimeter D issues. Especially since Mobley is versatile. You should also have a huge rebounding advantage. I think I'm still concerned about your starting lineups shooting though. Dejounte has been well below average on higher volume, Wagner was league average on average volume, and Mobley below. I think you're expecting a lot more from Green than he's going to give you personally. He can score but that's about it. Do you plan on speeding things up or grinding things out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DUKE Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: I can buy the theory that you have such tremendous length that it shrinks the court thus negating the perimeter D issues. Especially since Mobley is versatile. You should also have a huge rebounding advantage. I think I'm still concerned about your starting lineups shooting though. Dejounte has been well below average on higher volume, Wagner was league average on average volume, and Mobley below. I think you're expecting a lot more from Green than he's going to give you personally. He can score but that's about it. Do you plan on speeding things up or grinding things out? I think that team can do either. If I go smaller with Franz at the 4 I can crank it up, but with that length can also grind it to a halt with the 7'/7'/6'9" front court. The main aspect i'm looking for from Green is scoring off the bench. If Murray isn't scoring, a little more Green, if I need spacing and D, that's when Kennard comes in. I didn't put it in there because this is a generic minute share, but I can also use Mobley at the 5 if I need to run and gun. Murray/Green/Kennard/Franz/Mobley and i'm not even sacrificing that much length. Could speed it up when getting Embiid rest. Edited June 7, 2022 by THE DUKE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 I don't think there is anything wrong with @THE DUKE 's roster, but I think it comes down to a youthful team with upside vs. a veteran team built to win now. Two of his starters were rookies this past year (Wagner & Mobley), & Herro is only in his 3rd season and has yet to ascend to being a starter in the league. Then the biggest name on his bench is probably Green who is also coming off of his rookie season. My team does have Cade Cunningham but he's surrounded by a bunch of vets in Lillard, George, Collins with Patty Mills, Monk, and Harris coming off of the bench. If these two teams were to play now I just think my team is a lot more developed to handle that challenge now. Then there's the Embiid conundrum. He's a great player, but if you're in a series you absolutely have to win the best way to do that in the modern NBA is not built around a Center, it just isn't. If you look at the past 20 years of NBA champions the only team to have a traditional non floor spacing Center as their best player is all the way back in 2007 with the Spurs and Duncan (unless you want to argue Giannis is a Center when the Bucks won, but I don't think he compares well to Embiid, or the Lakers weird bubble title with Anthony Davis, but I'd argue Lebron was the best player on that team). So right there you have an uphill battle, and if you're going to make it work you need a lot of floor spacing around him. Just look at when the 76ers tried to go the double bigs route with Al Horford, it was a disaster. I just don't see how Mobley next to Embiid makes sense in a starting lineup (for actual stats, Mobley took 1.3 3PAs this year making .250 of them). Both Embiid and Mobley need to be under the basket on offense for them to thrive. Then there's the bench, I would argue RJ Barrett and Tobias Harris are better than anyone on the opposing bench. This was intentional, as I drafted both of these players before I took a starting Center. This gives my team a ton of wing depth and allows my team to do lots of different lineups. Between Cade Cunningham, Paul George, RJ Barrett, Tobias Harris, & John Collins, that is a ton of switchable wings from the 2-5 spots. In fact my best lineup is probably with Harris in the starting lineup as the starting 4, with Collins sliding down to the 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 I pretty much agree with @MKnight82. His team is proven and if healthy, they would dominate this IMO. I like Dukes team a lot given I tend to lean toward youth in building teams but for a one time tournament I think his squad is outmatched. In a year or two that likely changes but I still think PH and Dame have the legs to handle his wings for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Bullet Club said: Questions for MKnight? How do you keep everybody happy with one ball and so many on-ball guys? You stagger their minutes. Paul George has played a lot of 2nd fiddle in his career so I think he'd be fine with Dame, but Cade might be better running a lot with the 2nd unit. That would bring in veteran guards like Patty Mills or Malik Monk who can play off the ball a lot more. I have a lot of wing depth so there is a lot of flexibility in the lineups. I could see a lot of the minutes together being: Dame, Mills/Monk, George, Harris, Collins then a 2nd unit of Cade, Mills/Monk, RJ, Collins/Harris, Mitchell. Brandon Clarke is another versatile guy in that 4/5 spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted June 7, 2022 Author Share Posted June 7, 2022 I went MKnight, it probably goes 6 games. On top of the spacing issue, I think the rotations are weird. Jalen Green should not be playing 25 mpg. Conley is only getting 15 and he's much better. Toppin gets 10 mpg but Morris/Bullock, who are both legit role players, don't get any. Right off the bat that's a knock on the depth. The defense is there but MK has plenty of capable scorers as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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