Houston Texans added as defendants in Deshaun Watson sexual misconduct civil trials

[NudeTayne]

47 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

But those were criminal and these are civil, and he was seen going in multiple times.

I'll ask pointedly, do you equate the two acts? I don't at all. IMO Watson is a thousand times worse, as the whole point is that there was (allegedly) no consent, pressure and in some cases actual sexual assault bordering on rape.

Kraft paid for prostitution. That's it. And I really mean, that's it. I don't like it, but it was consenting adults. If he got suspended by the league I'd get it, but I also don't care that he wasn't(, assuming he was not part of or aware of trafficking stuff, which seems to be the case).

The charges for both appear to be going nowhere criminally so I guess we can say Kraft only did civil stuff too(, which seems like a duplicitous statement to make but seems consistent with the logic being put out there). 

One last point is that the league doesn't seem to care about prostitution much but more domestic assault/sex abuse. There's nothing in there about paying for a prostitute. If there was and there were 26 allegations, I'd think he'd never play again. But they're talking about UP TO one season, probably less with appeal. If this is what the NFL getting serious about abuse looks like then of course Kraft shouldn't have been punished. 

[MWil23]

47 minutes ago, NudeTayne said:

I'll ask pointedly, do you equate the two acts? I don't at all. IMO Watson is a thousand times worse, as the whole point is that there was (allegedly) no consent, pressure and in some cases actual sexual assault bordering on rape.

Kraft paid for prostitution. That's it. And I really mean, that's it. I don't like it, but it was consenting adults. If he got suspended by the league I'd get it, but I also don't care that he wasn't(, assuming he was not part of or aware of trafficking stuff, which seems to be the case).

The charges for both appear to be going nowhere criminally so I guess we can say Kraft only did civil stuff too(, which seems like a duplicitous statement to make but seems consistent with the logic being put out there). 

One last point is that the league doesn't seem to care about prostitution much but more domestic assault/sex abuse. There's nothing in there about paying for a prostitute. If there was and there were 26 allegations, I'd think he'd never play again. But they're talking about UP TO one season, probably less with appeal. If this is what the NFL getting serious about abuse looks like then of course Kraft shouldn't have been punished. 

I’m not so closed minded as to think that human trafficking is consent, or that just because there wasn’t evidence/that it wasn’t obtained legally that this was somehow okay.

[Thomas5737]

2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

But those were criminal and these are civil, and he was seen going in multiple times.

Watson's were criminal too until they weren't. Kraft's were criminal until they weren't there just isn't a victim in Kraft's cases for it to go to a civil court.

Supposedly Kraft's yank was unexpected by him and he liked it and returned. Watson wanted that and after refusals tried to insist.

In comparison Watson's actions were by far much much worse.

[NudeTayne]

34 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Watson's were criminal too until they weren't. Kraft's were criminal until they weren't there just isn't a victim in Kraft's cases for it to go to a civil court.

Supposedly Kraft's yank was unexpected by him and he liked it and returned. Watson wanted that and after refusals tried to insist.

In comparison Watson's actions were by far much much worse.

Thank you for explaining this. 

[Thomas5737]

9 minutes ago, NudeTayne said:

Thank you for explaining this. 

Sure thing.

Kraft certainly made a mistake and at his age it's obvious he isn't learning from it. He should have been smarter. However, It's not forcing anything on someone/something that can't always defend themselves so I don't care that much about it. Snyder's accusations are a different story that's pretty bad if true, much like Watson.

[MWil23]

1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said:

Supposedly Kraft's yank

Got it. Yeah he should get the benefit of the doubt. 

[Thomas5737]

21 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Got it. Yeah he should get the benefit of the doubt. 

Well no one is disputing it, that's a big difference. If anyone came out and said anything otherwise it would be a similar issue but no one has. Which hurts everyone defending Watson by saying it is a money grab. Why don't the women who serviced Kraft do the same thing and get some money? Weird how every woman won't just lie to get money unless it's against someone that you want (not you specifically) to be innocent. Then yeah, just money hungry liars.

[MWil23]

22 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Why don't the women who serviced Kraft do the same thing and get some money? Weird how every woman won't just lie to get money unless it's against someone that you want (not you specifically) to be innocent. Then yeah, just money hungry liars.

Weird that’s not how human trafficking works per my original point.

[Thomas5737]

11 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Weird that’s not how human trafficking works per my original point.

Did they ever find any evidence of human trafficking? I honestly haven't heard. I know it was reported that his first visit he was taken care of by the owner but I don't know about future visits.

[MWil23]

21 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Did they ever find any evidence of human trafficking? I honestly haven't heard. I know it was reported that his first visit he was taken care of by the owner but I don't know about future visits.

The evidence had to be thrown out due to a billionaire owner challenging how it was collected.

[Thomas5737]

That was just for his (and every other) misdemeanor soliciting charge, I don't honestly care about him interacting with a consenting adult. If there was no trafficking I don't think Kraft should get anything more than a soft slap on the wrist. The couple players I seen arrested for soliciting (the last I saw was in 2014 which may have been before current regulations) were not suspended.

[NudeTayne]

5 hours ago, MWil23 said:

I’m not so closed minded as to think that human trafficking is consent, or that just because there wasn’t evidence/that it wasn’t obtained legally that this was somehow okay.

Are you saying that you believe Robert Kraft was part of a human trafficking operation and not just a "John" at a massage parlor that he likely heard through others gave "extra" for extra tips? I'm not aware that anyone(?) believes that, but I want to understand why you're hitting this drum. If I thought he was trafficking women I'd want the court to throw the book at him but haven't heard anything that would make that appear to be the case. Am I missing something with the Kraft situation? 

[MWil23]

1 hour ago, NudeTayne said:

Are you saying that you believe Robert Kraft was part of a human trafficking operation and not just a "John" at a massage parlor that he likely heard through others gave "extra" for extra tips? I'm not aware that anyone(?) believes that, but I want to understand why you're hitting this drum. If I thought he was trafficking women I'd want the court to throw the book at him but haven't heard anything that would make that appear to be the case. Am I missing something with the Kraft situation? 

John’s use women who are part of it and literally can’t consent. That’s my point.

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

John’s use women who are part of it and literally can’t consent. That’s my point.

This doesn't appear to be the case, they were just looking into it and found nothing. I'd think they gave the women arrested ample time to say they were working against their will and offered them protection and assistance.

Orchids of Asia was one of 10 businesses targeted in Florida by prosecutors and various law enforcement agencies, an effort they initially claimed was made to find victims of human trafficking. But after Kraft was arrested and the investigation was thrust into the national spotlight, that claim fell apart. Aronberg would tell a judge in Kraft’s case that investigators had found no evidence of human trafficking.

 

So while what he did was illegal he didn't unknowingly, let alone knowingly, get offered services by anyone against their will. Criminal act but there aren't victims, everyone consented.

[Thomas5737]

1 minute ago, Thomas5737 said:

This doesn't appear to be the case, they were just looking into it and found nothing. I'd think they gave the women arrested ample time to say they were working against their will and offered them protection and assistance.

Orchids of Asia was one of 10 businesses targeted in Florida by prosecutors and various law enforcement agencies, an effort they initially claimed was made to find victims of human trafficking. But after Kraft was arrested and the investigation was thrust into the national spotlight, that claim fell apart. Aronberg would tell a judge in Kraft’s case that investigators had found no evidence of human trafficking.

 

So while what he did was illegal he didn't unknowingly, let alone knowingly, get offered services by anyone against their will. Criminal act but there aren't victims, everyone consented.

Also technically prostitution is legal if you film it.