2022 GDT Week Five Da 1-3 Steelers Visit the 3-1 Bills

[warfelg]

 

[Dcash4]

28 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Week one this year til TJs injury. Week one last year. 

Don’t you feel like that part is covered in the “but are we really nothing if superstars can’t make plays on defense?” section? 

Burrow was barely available in the preseason and they still put up over 400 yards on us and probably win that game 9/10 times with even a slightly better HC. Last year is probably a good one, though. Josh Allen talked about how we “switched things up” on them from previous years. 

[warfelg]

3 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Don’t you feel like that part is covered in the “but are we really nothing if superstars can’t make plays on defense?” section? 

Burrow was barely available in the preseason and they still put up over 400 yards on us and probably win that game 9/10 times with even a slightly better HC. Last year is probably a good one, though. Josh Allen talked about how we “switched things up” on them from previous years. 

Not really. I think of superstar plays as what Troy or James Harrison did of freelancing and making something of it. But they also had the trust of a safety teammate they knew could do it all. They had health for the longest time. They trusted their shutdown corner to not always need help. Offensively we used to rely on Ben making superstar plays out of the pocket. AB making absurd plays after the catch. Bell waiting for a slim opening.

I’ve felt like I’ve seen schemed things without the execution lately. DJ open but dropping it. The hole there but not being hit. A FS who has to cover for a bunch of busted coverages. 
 

Like…I don’t feel like we have a corner that we can say: There, take number 14, if he has a day then fine but 10, 16, 85 aren’t gonna hurt us. Without TJ I don’t feel like we can go: Ok, they’ll double this guy so we can put the LG and LT in a stunt with A-gap pressure.
 

Offensively we have the WR who we can say: We will get you the ball even when covered; but he doesn’t get the respect yet. We don’t have the back with 8 in the box that we can say: Here’s the rock, get us 4 anyways. 
 

So I don’t feel like we have those guys that we can build that scheme around to say: You take away/give us this, and things will happen around you. And as much as I think Minkah is a stud FS, he can’t be that without the stud CB. Look at all the stud FS in the league and tell me the CB1 you would take ours before. 
 

On top of that we are so talent dependent on roles. Like Arthur Maulet having to play NCB but really he’s a small blitzing LB. To me it’s bad when you can’t have a single injury (CB) without having to force players to play a role they aren’t good at. 
 

Do I recognize that’s partially Tomlin and what he wants from players? Absolutely. But the FO should take just as much blame in failures of not allowing an injury to derail everything. 
 

I’ll flat out say it right now:

Tomlin should lead this team through the rebuild. The locker room is changing over. He’s a new voice for many of these players. I think some of this will be fine. 

But Tomlin should have a smaller say in player personnel decisions. Let Weidl and Khan make these decisions. They do player assessment full time of guys who aren’t on the team. Tomlin should have say in prototype for the position and in coin flip situations. 

I really need to see something out of the offseason from Khan/Weidl that’s different than we’ve seen. We need to see the Witherspoon/Wallace 2/$8mil signings be the depth type moves. We need a home run signing. We need the uncovered gems like the James Farrior signings. I rather see an offseason with one big name and a bunch of small signings than these mid tier guys offered deals asap. 

[Dcash4]

I definitely don’t disagree with much of what you are saying @warfelg, but there are still so many instances you look at this team over the years and go what the hell are we coaching? 

Why in a league forcing god QBs to play against 2 high shells do we drop a S into the box on 3rd and 10 from their own 2 against a god QB? Why is Sutton playing 10 yards off with outside leverage in the red area in a C3 look against Diggs? Why do we continue to roll out the robber defense when the Jets sorted it? Why do we continue to vacate the middle in man when the Bengals adjusted? We just always seem a step behind mentally. Not to excuse players roles, but at some point continually player problems need to go up the chain. If the Bengals figure out they can get Chase on an inside busting route anytime they want, I can’t keep looking at Witherspoon and saying “well, he needs to step up” or “well, he isn’t a 1!”. You need to adjust how you are playing. 

16 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Tomlin should lead this team through the rebuild. The locker room is changing over.

I neither agree or disagree as of now. I think you could make valid arguments for Tomlin being the perfect guy to go through a transition or the worst. He has shown that his minor tinkering with things works, but it’s been largely with talented guys who work through issues by being…well, talented. But he hasn’t show that his teams can overcome lack of it. We are in a “lack of it” stage. His teams response and growth through the next 1.5 years will be extremely telling (as well as how he handles his staff). 

[warfelg]

Without the time to go into all those instances but you can’t bring ponies to a thoroughbred race. 
 

Also for @Dcash4or anyone: 

Who's the last coach to overcome a lack or talent to win? Like a legit team who didn’t have a “top 5 at their position” player and even made it to a SB? The Niners? 

[Dcash4]

29 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Without the time to go into all those instances but you can’t bring ponies to a thoroughbred race. 

Also for @Dcash4or anyone: 

Who's the last coach to overcome a lack or talent to win? Like a legit team who didn’t have a “top 5 at their position” player and even made it to a SB? The Niners? 

to be honest, I think that’s part of the problem. I think Tomlin believes in the “standard is the standard” a little too much and tries to run the same race without the thoroughbreds instead of trying to change it 

Talent can overcome coaching as coaching can overcome talent, but they work best together. Zac Taylor has not been a good play caller, but their talent overcomes that often enough for them to get to the super bowl. On the opposite end, their DC has done a great job piecing a bunch of guys who wouldn’t be in the top 5 together. Belichick is known a a kingmaker for defensive players outshining their abilities . Look at Andy Reid’s career record with Alex Smith and then see it go to another level with an incredible talent in Mahomes. Shannahan could scheme up a running game with me at LG. 

Im not asking ponies to win the Kentucky derby, but I am questioning if the coaching staff here is elevating the team or allowing it’s talent to elevate it. Maybe I’m wrong, but it feels like a fair question. What can we hang out hat on with Tomlin? My answer to that doesn’t come on Sundays. 

[warfelg]

It’s a fair question to ask. And I don’t mind it. But your answer kinda makes my point. Coaching doesn't overcome a lack of talent. (Side note: DJ Reeder is a top 5 NT, Germaine Pratt is massively underrated, Bates is a top 5 FA, Bell is a top 5 SS, and Awuzie is a damn good corner) 

And I don’t want you to think I don’t understand the concern. I do. 
 

But I don’t think these last few games are the type of thing to bring up “scheming and getting up” as a fault. Do I wish this team had better depth? Yes. But the depth sucks. I mean….Leal is starting at edge. I’m not sure what you want coaching to do about that. 

[3rivers]

6 hours ago, wwhickok said:

I do not see many players on defense that should actually be there after this season

what about coaches on defence, do you like them and the scheme ?

[VigilantZombie]

1 minute ago, 3rivers said:

what about coaches on defence, do you like them and the scheme ?

 I think every single coach that we have right now needs to be replaced

[Dcash4]

7 minutes ago, warfelg said:

(Side note: DJ Reeder is a top 5 NT, Germaine Pratt is massively underrated, Bates is a top 5 FA, Bell is a top 5 SS, and Awuzie is a damn good corner) 

Eh. Big agree on DJ Reader (he was unbelievable in his game against us). They are a collection of good and being put in the right spots to succeed. But this is a different argument for another day. 

11 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Coaching doesn't overcome a lack of talent.

And I don’t expect it to completely overcome it. This isn’t a knee jerk reaction to just today, but rather a bigger scale look at the last few years. It goes back to my question: when’s the last time you feel like we were ready to play? If we only come up with a handful of examples over the last couple years….that’s not a great sign. 

[3rivers]

5 hours ago, warfelg said:

 

the game was lower scoring 40 years ago and he usually had a very good defence. Much different vs this bills team in 2022 and our defence. I doubt getting a TD instead of missing the FG would have mattered in this game, just got demolished out there today. Bills made a statement today

[warfelg]

12 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Eh. Big agree on DJ Reader (he was unbelievable in his game against us). They are a collection of good and being put in the right spots to succeed. But this is a different argument for another day. 

And I don’t expect it to completely overcome it. This isn’t a knee jerk reaction to just today, but rather a bigger scale look at the last few years. It goes back to my question: when’s the last time you feel like we were ready to play? If we only come up with a handful of examples over the last couple years….that’s not a great sign. 

Those handful of examples are also the handful of examples where our talent wasn’t at a big hit. I think there’s plenty of times were ready to play even in a loss. Like all of 2020. 

[3rivers]

13 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

 I think every single coach that we have right now needs to be replaced

even Tomlin? For some reason I am not yelling 'fire tomlin' , a bit puzzled by that too. Injuries are part of the game and usually coaching is too or a lack of. I haven't been a fan of this system for a while either but lets see what they do with Kenny at QB. 

Most other coaches would play Warren more than Harris with this OL, the added quickness is needed right now anyways.  Harris can still be productive with a slightly better OL. 

I think there is some decent talent on offence, nothing special anywhere ( solid though) but the defence has some issues and Watt alone shouldn't make this much of a difference IMO, and we all know he is special. 

It wouldn't bother me at all if they cleaned house, but let Kenny have a QB coach and  the same staff. No need to constantly be changing coaches for the qb. Remembering how everyone hated Haley, seems like it was much better back then with the OL , Munch ,and AB +Bell were reasonable.  Where has this team spent all it's cap though? They should have some decent change to get a few UFA's

[warfelg]

If they clean house on the coaching staff I guarantee they move on from Kenny, wasting yet another pick. 

[bigben07MVP]

20 minutes ago, warfelg said:

If they clean house on the coaching staff I guarantee they move on from Kenny, wasting yet another pick. 

Not sure how you can guarantee that after 1.5 promising games of Kenny.