warfelg Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 31 minutes ago, armsteeld said: It's about time he left. Minus Shazier, I can't think of an ILB that we developed into being a quality player. We gave him tremendous athletes but the return on investment was brutally bad. Used to be good. Curious as to why he stuck around because what he’s coached is stuff that passed him by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 hour ago, armsteeld said: It's about time he left. Minus Shazier, I can't think of an ILB that we developed into being a quality player. We gave him tremendous athletes but the return on investment was brutally bad. Vince WIlliams, but I agree with the sentiment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, warfelg said: Agreed. BUT Moseley, Bradberry, Dean are all guys who can give better lockdown against top WR's and cost the same. Murphy, Ya-Sin, Flowers are guys who can give you similar production at a lesser cost than Sutton. Edit: I didn’t finish my thought. I would sign one of those guys to a short term high value deal and draft a CB at the same time. None of those guys have had anywhere near the same production last year. The three of them combined had a total of one interception and just 14 passes defensed. That's all three combined to have lower statistical output then Sutton, last season and only one of those three played in double digit games last season.And the only one in the last two years, who's had similar production is Murphy. I don't know what is required for Sutton to be considered a number one cornerback when he was 6th in passes defensed and 28th in the interceptions. But he's also been healthy unlike a couple of the other dudes. I know it's unpopular but I think we should pay Sutton the money cuz we know what we have in him... Edited February 22, 2023 by Ward4HOF 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: I know it's unpopular but I think we should pay Sutton the money cuz we know what we have in him... but how much is the ceiling that you pay him? Spotrac is one thing, NFL reality is another. What's your limit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 7 minutes ago, 3rivers said: but how much is the ceiling that you pay him? Spotrac is one thing, NFL reality is another. What's your limit? Top 10-12 CB money. Again, he's been healthy, and productive the last 2 seasons. I don't care that he can't keep pace with the fastest WR... That is what we have an All Pro FS "center fielder" for. Plus, with healthy pass rush, like we typically have, how many times are QBs able to throw deep? Less than most other teams, is the answer. What more does Sutton need to do, with 15 PDs and 3 Ints. His only poor stat was 4 TDs...but were those because he got beat deep, or were they passed from within the Red Zone...or were they quick slants, or similar, with YAC?? I'm sure the team knows the answer to that, and will be factored in... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 The team shouldn’t squabble over a few $$$ when they can just put a lot of $$$ into the 2nd year of deal. You sign Sutton or a comparable vet for similar $$$. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 10 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: Top 10-12 CB money. Haaaaaard pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, AFF said: The team shouldn’t squabble over a few $$$ when they can just put a lot of $$$ into the 2nd year of deal. You sign Sutton or a comparable vet for similar $$$. I rather clear space and front load deals this year. Next years FA class is potentially a lot better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, warfelg said: Double post I hate doing responses on the phone...ugh Edited February 22, 2023 by Ward4HOF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 34 minutes ago, warfelg said: Haaaaaard pass. Average annual value of 13.5 million is a hard pass for sutton? That's what the number 12 average annual value cornerback makes, who happens to be on our team already, and has done absolutely nothing to earn that, unlike Sutton... Oh but he's fast... As someone else mentioned something like a 3-year 39 million dollar contract would not be the bad contract for Sutton... Edited February 22, 2023 by Ward4HOF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 when does the deal get done or when do you expect him to say " thanks but no thanks" and move on. UFA can have lots of activity fast early on, ask mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 28 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: Average annual value of 13.5 million is a hard pass for sutton? That's what the number 12 average annual value cornerback makes, who happens to be on our team already, and has done absolutely nothing to earn that, unlike Sutton... Oh but he's fast... As someone else mentioned something like a 3-year 39 million dollar contract would not be the bad contract for Sutton... Transition tag is $15mil which is average of top 10 at the position. I like Cam but I’m not committing that to him. Look at his stats minus TJ vs with. Wildly different player. He also spent a lot of time matched up against 2nd and 3rd WRs. When he was on the best of other teams he was getting beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, 3rivers said: when does the deal get done or when do you expect him to say " thanks but no thanks" and move on. UFA can have lots of activity fast early on, ask mitch I think he decides within a day or two of FA opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 53 minutes ago, warfelg said: I rather clear space and front load deals this year. Next years FA class is potentially a lot better. Cut Trubisky/WJIII/Witherspoon…roughly $25 mill in cap room…probably restructure Fitzpatrick(I’ve seen $8 mill they can clear but I honestly don’t know). Probably need ~$5-6mi for year 1 cap hits of rookies…another $5-7 mill for in season stuff like the Steelers like to keep around. Ill go with the $33 mill In room with the numbers I’ve used above. For sale of argument, let’s say their 1st 4 picks are some combo of LG/CB/ILB/NT. You still have holes at SS…S depth…CB….ILb depth…DE depth…EDGE depth…OT depth…2nd TE…OT depth…backup(s) QB…plus our love for ST only guys like Boykin. They don’t have the room to front load deals unless they do an “extension” with Heyward adding on void year and and another restructure with Watt. Tge Steelers like low year 1 cap hits typically and we saw that in the Trubisky/Daniels/Chuks/Wallace/Witherspoon deals last offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 8 minutes ago, 3rivers said: when does the deal get done or when do you expect him to say " thanks but no thanks" and move on. UFA can have lots of activity fast early on, ask mitch That's kind of what I'm worried about. I'm hoping they present him with the Fair deal in the 13 million average annual value and I think if offered that he'll take it but if they wait too long and ding dong around then they're probably going to lose them. And then we're going to be left scrambling and overpaying someone else to be here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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