Dcash4 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Cornerback is likely the most volatile position in the NFL in terms of stats and production. I wouldn't look at where he ranked in accordance to the league this year as any indicator of where you pay him. 2022 rating against him: 65%. 2021 rating against him: 104.9% Stats would tell you that Cam was better than Jalen Ramsey last year, but apples to apples would anyone believe that? There are pros (versatility, solid player, communication/continuity) and negatives (not a lock down, doesn't cover 1's) to signing him. If we get him for $10-13M, I am for it. Anything more than that, find a better player to match pay or cut the rate in half and find similar. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: I wouldn't look at where he ranked in accordance to the league this year as any indicator of where you pay him. 2022 rating against him: 65%. 2021 rating against him: 104.9% Stats would tell you that Cam was better than Jalen Ramsey last year, but apples to apples would anyone believe that? This is kinda my issue and it’s what Chris Carter of Locked on really does not express at all and part of what’’s driving (along with with Bob Labriola) the willingness to overpay. They are only hitting a last years production, not the last two. Has he trended better? Absolutely. But like I’ve said, it’s been feeling more and more with watching him like the pass rush made QB’s speed up too much to the boundary that a lot of bad passes got made. Also really random, but did you know we were 9th in least pass attempts against? Many of those other highly rated corners were on teams passed against less than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: Cornerback is likely the most volatile position in the NFL in terms of stats and production. I wouldn't look at where he ranked in accordance to the league this year as any indicator of where you pay him. 2022 rating against him: 65%. 2021 rating against him: 104.9% Stats would tell you that Cam was better than Jalen Ramsey last year, but apples to apples would anyone believe that? There are pros (versatility, solid player, communication/continuity) and negatives (not a lock down, doesn't cover 1's) to signing him. If we get him for $10-13M, I am for it. Anything more than that, find a better player to match pay or cut the rate in half and find similar. But did I ever hint, say, mention, allude to, etc, etc, that I EVER thought he was better than Ramsey?? No, because Ramsey also had twice as many tackles, 2 FF, 4 INTs, 2 Sacks, and 21 blitzes, 4 QB Pressures, and just 3 Missed tackles..all better stats than Sutton. All I said was that he was ranked high in stats that matter, and BTW, Ramsey was fairly close to Suttons marks with 62% Comp % and just an 84 Opposing Passer Rating--all above average. And lastly, there were just 2 important points I was trying to make...with the first being, we don't grow CBs nearly as well as we have with Sutton, and second, that these types of stats WILL be used by his agent to get him the highest payout for his client, who, BTW, is just 28YO, so he has at least 3-4 good years left in him, and bringing up what his stats were the year before last, is only going to show, that Sutton's healthy, and nearly always available, and those stats from the year before, are nothing to sneeze at...he had 10 more tackles, 4 vs 1 TFL, 1FF vs 0 (and he had 3 FF the year before that), and still had 2 INTs...not too shabby, but, and I don't know where to find the stats for this, but we all know he played closer to the line the year prior, and a heck of a lot more slot time. I don't think I've stated anything outlandish, and my numbers are right in line with yours, and were just a bit higher's than Warfelg, so I really do not understand what the debate is...we are all saying the same thing, but maybe for different reasons?? IDK, but we all want Sutton back next year, on a decently fair, and not overpriced contract...yes?? Okay then...I find it silly that there is any debate going on here at all... Edited February 23, 2023 by Ward4HOF typos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 21 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: But did I ever hint, say, mention, allude to, etc, etc, that I EVER thought he was better than Ramsey?? No, because Ramsey also had twice as many tackles, 2 FF, 4 INTs, 2 Sacks, and 21 blitzes, 4 QB Pressures, and just 3 Missed tackles..all better stats than Sutton. All I said was that he was ranked high in stats that matter, and BTW, Ramsey was fairly close to Suttons marks with 62% Comp % and just an 84 Opposing Passer Rating--all above average. No, nor did I ever hint, say, mention, or allude to you doing so. I merely used it as an example of why you shouldn't base your contracts off a single season of CB statistics and their ranking. Cover stats are probably one of the absolute worst metrics out there. It's not that they can't tell a story, but I want that story to be one of consistency. Sutton is coming off his best season, but it followed an extremely meh one. So I wouldn't rush to make contract decisions based on stats and ranking of 2022. 29 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: we don't grow CBs nearly as well as we have with Sutton This just doesn't factor in for me at all. We have also done pretty well going outside the organization for guys like Haden, Nelson, and now Wallace. True we don't grow corners, but we have been able to fit established guys in her before. Which is why if they feel a guy like Rock Ya-Sin fits at $8M and Sutton's market says he is closer to $16M, it's a no brainer for me. 32 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: I don't think I've stated anything outlandish, and my numbers are right in line with yours, and were just a bit higher's than Warfelg, so I really do not understand what the debate is You haven't. I wasn't really debating with you....just adding my thoughts to Cam. Only part I would debate would be your user of ranking/stats. I would lock Sutton in at $10M. I am willing to go higher to that $13M spot, but it ultimately depends on the price tag of other guys then. I don't see him as a must have, rather a nice to have. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 34 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: I would lock Sutton in at $10M. I am willing to go higher to that $13M spot, but it ultimately depends on the price tag of other guys then. I don't see him as a must have, rather a nice to have. with this draft so deep at CB, it might influence the FO to let Sutton walk if his offer gets on the higher end of the scale. While we expect them to build the trenches, it was never said if that would be through UFA and or the draft. Right now it looks as though there is better value at CB in the draft overall as opposed to the trenches. If they got CB's at 17 and 32, they should be both quality starters. I doubt it happens like that though, they probably have a later round sleeper CB they like. With a team that has needs in various roster spots, it makes for an interesting offseason for us anyways. I'm looking forward to this, and still have hopes the FO does well, just not sure how they go about all this. It might come down to a certain few best available players that shape the draft and if they couldn't land some UFA's they wanted to. LT for example, if they miss out on UFA and Broderick is there at 17 then I expect that to be the pick. Maybe they go with Moore for another season and replace him if required next year. Not sure right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 I would welcome Mason back on a cheap deal as the QB2 to be honest. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 I read that as "Yeah, I want out....but if it's the ONLY NFL job I wouldn't close the door". I would totally understand if he feels like a bridge was burned here from how things were handled last year, but I also hope he realizes he could have like a 10 year career here as a backup. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 37 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: I read that as "Yeah, I want out....but if it's the ONLY NFL job I wouldn't close the door". I would totally understand if he feels like a bridge was burned here from how things were handled last year, but I also hope he realizes he could have like a 10 year career here as a backup. Well said, I wonder how the league in general feels about Mason. I can’t imagine he’s going to be a hot commodity but I could see him going to Detroit or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 1 minute ago, bigben07MVP said: Well said, I wonder how the league in general feels about Mason. I can’t imagine he’s going to be a hot commodity but I could see him going to Detroit or something. I am very curious if they actually did put some feelers out to trade him and got nothing back. We have a two round gap in the 5th and 6th. I kinda hope they tried to fill it and were rejected. If that's the case though, maybe he will realize this is the best spot for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Dcash4 said: I read that as "Yeah, I want out....but if it's the ONLY NFL job I wouldn't close the door". is Martavis asking his xfl team for a former teammate QB? Wait, was it that long ago that mason or Martavis played here 53 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said: Well said, I wonder how the league in general feels about Mason. I can’t imagine he’s going to be a hot commodity but I could see him going to Detroit or something. most likely a 1 year deal, maybe even a prove it bridge QB with potential as starter on a team with major cap issues. He should want out of here, not all his fault and not much of a career here. Highlights include Earl and Myles, not really good for the resume outside of the blue tent. Considering mitch's cap, I would prefer Mason as QB2 here. Not ideal but that extra capspace can be used on starters not back up that plays like an late round rookie most of the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 has the FO indicated that the trench rebuild will be mainly from the draft or will there be UFA and Vets as part of this? I still hope for CB's in RD1 or at 32 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 is this actually how the team operates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, 3rivers said: is this actually how the team operates? No. How much power Tomlin has get immensely overplayed. One of the big things I’ve heard is that Weidl is going to have more say that Hunt had in the past especially in the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, warfelg said: No. How much power Tomlin has get immensely overplayed. One of the big things I’ve heard is that Weidl is going to have more say that Hunt had in the past especially in the draft. where do you find this out? I hope you are right and of course these 2 in the clip are wrong . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 16 minutes ago, 3rivers said: where do you find this out? I hope you are right and of course these 2 in the clip are wrong . I know someone who works for the Steelers. Likely this years structure will be Khan is the tie breaker. Weidl will build the board based on his work all year. Tomlin will narrow down lists Weidl puts together. From what I’ve understood positional coaches will be a smaller part of the draft than in the past. Basically Weidl is going to have a big influence in the draft and Tomlin/Khan will have bigger influence in FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.