State of the Steelers

[MOSteelers56]

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/12/28/24017441/mike-tomlin-pittsburgh-steelers-coaching-record-george-pickens

Here's a good writeup about Tomlin. It seems pretty even. Solak describes some of Tomlin's pros and cons and analyzes them. It's a long read, but I think it's worth it.  

[Dcash4]

L’Jarious Sneed is my clear cut #1 free agent on the wishlist. Whoooah baby he is with some good company on that chart (Joey Porter JR, both on the far right). 

Gimme. 

[zflairway]

2 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

L’Jarious Sneed is my clear cut #1 free agent on the wishlist. Whoooah baby he is with some good company on that chart (Joey Porter JR, both on the far right). 

Gimme. 

I'm by no means a scholar on this kind of thing, but it looks like the way the chart reads is those that receive WR #1 are on the far right. Ok. Those that receive not much WR #1 are on the far left. 

In conjunction with... 

Those that get torched are at the top. Those that are blankets are at the bottom. 

Ok..

That means the perfect human would be fourth quadrant or -.20 and 40%. As you can see, it does not exist.

There's some red tape here saying DBs probably don't line up against WR1 probably for a reason. That reason is they are slot cornerbacks. They don't have this responsibility. 

 

Now, let's take a look at Joey Porter Jr. Joey Porter Jr is very average in this regard which is probably why he averages a flag a game. He is fighting for his life about to be separated from. It is certainly a way to cover. 

 

It looks like Daron Bland, who leads the league in picks, is actually the blanket. Here he is receiving a fair amount of WR1 responsibility with the negative number, which is to say, he's in your hip pocket. He doesn't need to grab or to touch because he's already there. His positioning is sound. Or maybe Devon Witherspoon. A nice squatter of routes.  

Or we can always look at the slot blanket himself Garrett Williams all by his lonesome. Low reps. Knee recovery. Always a good value added tool if you're willing to risk it for the biscuit. 

 

I am by no means a scholar. 

[warfelg]

27 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

L’Jarious Sneed is my clear cut #1 free agent on the wishlist. Whoooah baby he is with some good company on that chart (Joey Porter JR, both on the far right). 

Gimme. 

PP in a good place for how much fans roast him. Wallace not too bad too. 
 

10 minutes ago, zflairway said:

In conjunction with... 

Those that get torched are at the top. Those that are blankets are at the bottom. 

 

Wrong. Those that allow little separation are at the top. 

[Dcash4]

3 minutes ago, zflairway said:

I am by no means a scholar. 

You want to be in the top right quadrant, which is where both Sneed and Porter are. It means you both have tight coverage and cover the other teams #1. 

[zflairway]

2 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

You want to be in the top right quadrant, which is where both Sneed and Porter are. It means you both have tight coverage and cover the other teams #1. 

Why you got Alontae Taylor, Jalen Ramsey, Daron Bland, Jaire Alexander, Zyon McCollum was a favorite, James Bradberry, Marcus Peters, JC Jackson, Devon Witherspoon, and all the good CBs on the bottom. Below the origin.

Is separation a good thing or a bad thing? Let's start there. As a cornerback, I don't want to be separated from. On an average displacement, over iteration after iteration, you want to have the most negative number possible, because that means you are doing your job.

 

Now, there is more than one way to read a data point. You can also look at the data and say hey what about D Slay and Denzel Ward. I like these guys. They are actually very average in this regard. But we can say... As you gain more repetitions with the WR1 you will move farther and farther to the top right of the chart. That's just how it works going against the best.

Therefore, if we can imagine them where they are are hitting that crosshairs and dragging them back towards the origin, the better they are. Which is why Stephon Gilmore, given the same repetitions against WR1 is closer to the WRs pocket than those two. 

And qualitatively... I would agree that Gilmore is better than both Denzel Ward and D Slay. Media darlings that can neither read nor write. 

[Dcash4]

4 minutes ago, zflairway said:

Why you got Alontae Taylor, Jalen Ramsey, Daron Bland, Jaire Alexander, Zyon McCollum was a favorite, James Bradberry, Marcus Peters, JC Jackson, Devon Witherspoon, and all the good CBs on the bottom. Below the origin.

Is separation a good thing or a bad thing? Let's start there. As a cornerback, I don't want to be separated from. On an average displacement, over iteration after iteration, you want to have the most negative number possible, because that means you are doing your job.

 

Now, there is more than one way to read a data point. You can also look at the data and say hey what about D Slay and Denzel Ward. I like these guys. They are actually very average in this regard. But we can say... As you gain more repetitions with the WR1 you will move farther and farther to the top right of the chart. That's just how it works going against the best.

Therefore, if we can imagine them where they are are hitting that crosshairs and dragging them back towards the origin, the better they are. Which is why Stephon Gilmore, given the same repetitions against WR1 is closer to the WRs pocket than those two. 

And qualitatively... I would agree that Gilmore is better than both Denzel Ward and D Slay. Media darlings that can neither read nor write. 

[3rivers]

46 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

L’Jarious Sneed is my clear cut #1 free agent on the wishlist. Whoooah baby he is with some good company on that chart (Joey Porter JR, both on the far right). 

Gimme. 

nice chart. Sneed will be able to ask what he wants and go to where he wants most likely. How many teams will be seriously trying to sign him? Khan should make this top priority or another CB.  If Forbes is in the doghouse in washington, maybe trade a mid round pick for him as well  

[zflairway]

21 minutes ago, warfelg said:

PP in a good place for how much fans roast him. Wallace not too bad too. 
 

Wrong. Those that allow little separation are at the top. 

I look at this and see Roger McCreary at the origin there as the prototypical average cornerback. Qualitatively I say that's more like a Tyrique Stevenson, but the data says, no, he just has more fill. We all have a different concept of a standard.

PP would register as an average cornerback with less fill. 

[3rivers]

41 minutes ago, zflairway said:

I am by no means a scholar. 

 

 

tranlates

watched steelers offence  in 2023 

 

 

what did you think of the mitch signing?

[zflairway]

Patrick Peterson must be the worst starting cornerback in the league, which is why he was signed to the Steelers. He could probably be better at safety than xyz, but that's stating the obvious 

[zflairway]

Just now, 3rivers said:

 

 

tranlates

watched steelers offence  in 2023 

 

 

what did you think of the mitch signing?

When he signed that initial contract he was to sail off into the sunsets with his newly minted wife as a nice parting gift for one last pay day in the league and was harpooned in the chest to see him come back for another go round 

[3rivers]

12 minutes ago, zflairway said:

When he signed that initial contract he was to sail off into the sunsets with his newly minted wife as a nice parting gift for one last pay day in the league and was harpooned in the chest to see him come back for another go round 

before the draft :

when a buddy I was talking to about football said " the steelers don't have a QB"

I said "they just signed trubisky"

buddy  laughed and walked away

How is it that fans can see a QB is not good at all yet a franchise falls for the QB?  Do they think they can get the player to improve,  make them the player they want/hope for?   

[zflairway]

3 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

before the draft :

when a buddy I was talking to about football said " the steelers don't have a QB"

I said "they just signed trubisky"

buddy  laughed and walked away

How is it that fans can see a QB is not good at all yet a franchise falls for the QB?  Do they think they can get the player to improve,  make them the player they want/hope for?   

I'll put it this way. Drake Maye is Mitch Trubisky 2.0.

There's like an antenna around your head and if you can't feel it or panic or anything that takes you out of rhythm you're dead. Pocket presence is the most important attribute for a qb. If you can't throw on time being accurate is moot, which is the 2nd most important trait, unless you wanna elevate guile aka "stones". It's a game of time and we're always in need of creating time. Being on time. 

One of the best attributes I look for is if a player can create "time". The best playmakers create time and that doesn't mean flushing the pocket, for a quarterback, it's living in between the spaces between spaces.

[warfelg]

18 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/12/28/24017441/mike-tomlin-pittsburgh-steelers-coaching-record-george-pickens

Here's a good writeup about Tomlin. It seems pretty even. Solak describes some of Tomlin's pros and cons and analyzes them. It's a long read, but I think it's worth it.  

This is a really good write up and captures each flip side on all the arguments.  

Like, I like that in this instance he acknowledged that some of the last playoff teams were kinda dragged into the playoffs.  But at the same time the lack of good roster building late caused some of that downfall.  How he hasn't developed a QB, but other than Pickett (who isn't is he says) they've all been mid round QB's that haven't panned out.  Although on this front I'll say it's strange that he's blaming Tomlin for not developing Pickett, but also saying he's a bust and far fewer QB's make it than not making it.  While he owns some of the responsibility for picking him, is he fully at fault since no good succession plan in place (also, how much was this impacted by Ben's rather thin skin response to Mason's drafting? I don't think we'll ever know on this.).

I really think that late-Ben career failings is why we should keep Tomlin and rebuild this right.  But as the article points to, this means is unlikelywe end up with a high pick to spend on a QB.  So something I would like to see out of these next two offseasons is to:

~ Start with Khan, Weidl, Tomlin sitting down and do a honest evaluation of the team and who's on it.  Who should be back, who should go, who is on a cuttable contract that you can replace, who holds more value to other teams than us that we can look to trade, and really come down to here's the 30ish players we must enter next season having on the team, and who's the 10ish we cannot have on the team.

~ Have Tomlin involved in the draft, but it's driven more by Weidl and his team coming up with a very short list of players in each round he should be looking at.  Basically go: "Here's 5 guys we targeted in round 2, now you evaluate based on those 5."

~ Khan handles a similar thing going into FA.  Target positions with 2 high end options, 2 value options and talk to Tomlin about what he likes with it.

~ The focus on the team building goes into the trenches first by getting DE, RT, OC all set.  Add in getting WR1/2 (aka DJ's replacement), CB2 (Wallace's replacement), and long term SS settled.  I wand to do this while leaving QB intentionally "weak" because it makes us a playoff team doing all of that outside of the QB position.  This is what puts us in position to be able to give up picks in the future to move up for a rookie contract QB.