State of the Steelers

[C$!]

26 minutes ago, jebrick said:

And the defense has adapted over time.  They run a hybrid defensive front but need better talent on the DT positions.  It has worked because Cam can play both the run and the pass well.  That is going away.   So you either need another DT that can play the run and pass well or get a "fat body" in there to stuff up the run lanes while you search for your other Cam.

I guess my frustration comes from the fact that the defense is SO reliant on Watt. I know you can't replace him, but it can't also completely fall off a cliff when he is not there.

Hell even when he is there, in the playoffs, the D has completely disappeared. It sometimes feels like they are relying on him to always have multiple sacks and turnovers.

[C$!]

36 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I mean, outside of Austin and Dunbar most that defensive staff has been here 3 years or less.  So clearly someone in the decision making is clear and comfortable with outside concepts.  This even ignores the "bring in Flores because he's god" because he left after a year.

So it's rather curious as to why the offense is stuck in the mud with it.

I mean I hope this isn't true, but maybe Tomlin is just more focused on the defense that the offense is kind of secondary.

[jebrick]

Just now, C$! said:

I guess my frustration comes from the fact that the defense is SO reliant on Watt. I know you can't replace him, but it can't also completely fall off a cliff when he is not there.

Hell even when he is there, in the playoffs, the D has completely disappeared. It sometimes feels like they are relying on him to always have multiple sacks and turnovers.

But all defenses are reliant on their superstars.  The problem you might be feeling is that the type of offense they run ( ball control) is low scoring and they need the defense to keep other teams below the league average of 22 points.  Get an offense that can actually score  24-30 points a game and the defense can have bad days.

[bigben07MVP]

https://x.com/markkaboly/status/1747643312389980229?s=46&t=qcRuXjH2St1oLeP8Aph7Og
 

True. Those 2 guys are my reason for optimism.

[3rivers]

59 minutes ago, jebrick said:

The Steelers come out to play clock control football and other teams come out to run up some scores.  I feel that the Steelers expect other teams to do the same things as well rather than attack the middle of the field with TEs up the seams because the team you are playing against is playing ILBs that were hired off the couch 3 weeks ago.

steelers are clueless when it comes to planning how to prepare and attack teams.

 

48 minutes ago, warfelg said:

https://x.com/profootballtalk/status/1747638687611883655?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA
 

News stories like this pop up less than 48 hours after a playoff loss yet the media gets mad and wonders why coaches and players don’t like some of them. 

does tomlin write his own cheques? How does he know he will be back? Maybe AR2 has already told him, but if so, then expect more of the same in the form of the tomlin 500 or Mr.529

media is trash anyways, most know this. How they have a job after all the bad reporting over the years is anyones guess. See TJ's grade 3 sprain for example 

[C$!]

3 hours ago, jebrick said:

But all defenses are reliant on their superstars.  The problem you might be feeling is that the type of offense they run ( ball control) is low scoring and they need the defense to keep other teams below the league average of 22 points.  Get an offense that can actually score  24-30 points a game and the defense can have bad days.

Oh, I completely agree that the offense is a much bigger issue. Tomlin trying to play a 90's style of football has not helped the defense at all in terms of wear and tear during a year. They have zero room for error. 

As I said there is no replacing Watt or what he can do. I just find it frustrating that if he is not there, the team is guaranteed to lose (I think they are 1-11 without him). Like they can't scheme something up to work around it? I am not saying they will be as good without Watt, but I hate that they fall apart. 

 

[warfelg]

3 minutes ago, C$! said:

Oh, I completely agree that the offense is a much bigger issue. Tomlin trying to play a 90's style of football has not helped the defense at all in terms of wear and tear during a year. They have zero room for error. 

As I said there is no replacing Watt or what he can do. I just find it frustrating that if he is not there, the team is guaranteed to lose (I think they are 1-11 without him). Like they can't scheme something up to work around it? I am not saying they will be as good without Watt, but I hate that they fall apart. 

 

The other part is how often do you hear we had a coverage sack? It’s been a long time.  I really think that getting better on the back 7 will help out the pass rush.  

IMO the way you build your team in the modern NFL is out and in. Meaning defensively: Stud pass rusher, secondary pass rusher, 2 corners, FS.  Then you work in from there.  Offensively it’s the Spine: C, QB, RB with an elite WR.

[3rivers]

4 hours ago, C$! said:

I mean I hope this isn't true, but maybe Tomlin is just more focused on the defense that the offense is kind of secondary.

as long as he wins the tomlin 500, thats good enough as recent history has shown. No need to care enough for anything better especially considering the quality of play across the league anyways. This team can't even tackle.

If tomlin is more focused on the defence, then he has work to do.  The defence has fallen apart, not good vs the run  and is sinking

[3rivers]

3 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

https://x.com/markkaboly/status/1747643312389980229?s=46&t=qcRuXjH2St1oLeP8Aph7Og
 

True. Those 2 guys are my reason for optimism.

it might help but still have issues with OC, HC and just being ready for a playoff game that we ned help to get in for. 

When KP gets hurt next year, who steps in and what do you expect ?

[C$!]

10 minutes ago, warfelg said:

The other part is how often do you hear we had a coverage sack? It’s been a long time.  I really think that getting better on the back 7 will help out the pass rush.  

IMO the way you build your team in the modern NFL is out and in. Meaning defensively: Stud pass rusher, secondary pass rusher, 2 corners, FS.  Then you work in from there.  Offensively it’s the Spine: C, QB, RB with an elite WR.

I agree, if there isn't pressure of the jump the back end rarely can hold up. On the upside JPJ and Fitz are there so there is something to build around but considering Tomlin was a DB coach, the Steelers back end has been very pedestrian for a while. To add to the issues,  the Steelers have not really had the best track record acquiring DB's, whether in the draft or UFA. 

 

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, C$! said:

I agree, if there isn't pressure of the jump the back end rarely can hold up. On the upside JPJ and Fitz are there so there is something to build around but considering Tomlin was a DB coach, the Steelers back end has been very pedestrian for a while. To add to the issues,  the Steelers have not really had the best track record acquiring DB's, whether in the draft or UFA. 

 

Yea. I was looking at it earlier and our drafting there is bad.  In the first 3 rounds in the last 10 years we’ve done (2012-2022 drafts):

Justin Layne (2019)

Terrell Edmunds (2018)

Cam Sutton (2017)

Artie Burns (2016)

Sean Davis (2016)

Senquez Golson (2015)

10 years, 6 guys in the first 3 rounds, 10 years combined as the primary starter in Pitt.

On top of that the only outside FA we signed to a deal $10MM+ AAV was Haden over that time.

[C$!]

57 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Yea. I was looking at it earlier and our drafting there is bad.  In the first 3 rounds in the last 10 years we’ve done (2012-2022 drafts):

Justin Layne (2019)

Terrell Edmunds (2018)

Cam Sutton (2017)

Artie Burns (2016)

Sean Davis (2016)

Senquez Golson (2015)

10 years, 6 guys in the first 3 rounds, 10 years combined as the primary starter in Pitt.

On top of that the only outside FA we signed to a deal $10MM+ AAV was Haden over that time.

The only two first-round picks of the group were also major reaches Burns and Edmunds. They have a a strange blind spot drafting DB's

I hate looking back at drafts and being critical but had the Steelers moved back into the second round they could have ended up with Xavien Howard and Jessie Bates. I know hindsight is 20/20 but both those picks were immediately criticised.  

[zflairway]

6 hours ago, C$! said:

I guess my frustration comes from the fact that the defense is SO reliant on Watt. I know you can't replace him, but it can't also completely fall off a cliff when he is not there.

Hell even when he is there, in the playoffs, the D has completely disappeared. It sometimes feels like they are relying on him to always have multiple sacks and turnovers.

The defense is reliant on attempting to get to the quarterback, getting there quite often, collectively, as a team, at the cost of the other team being indifferent to this approach and still being able to throw the other two plays and achieve a first down with great frequency. This is not the way to play defense because you're not in control of the game.

Too often they submit to the will of the opponent, however weak or strong, and are consistently nickeled and dimed down the field with gimmicks of the day failing to understand the nuances of the game. 

That's not how you play the game.

Theory: If you choose to be a blitz first team you will have to do so by getting there quicker than they throw it out, which is a seemingly impossible task when they throw the ball in 2.5 seconds. This is the best play way to play the game, offensively, as it limits pressures, which in turn limits panic, turnovers, and negative plays. To attack a front of this nature, you would have to have fewer guys on the ground, and more guys on their feet that are athletic enough to cover space and close throwing lanes, while also being stout enough at the point of attack, to control the run game from a lack of guys on the defensive line. That is a variation of a sub-package defense that can pressure from all angles while also having enough athleticism to matchup in man, switch into blitz, or do whatever they need to do at a given time to match what the offense is doing, instead of just rolling over and getting gashed all day long. 

[3rivers]

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

Yea. I was looking at it earlier and our drafting there is bad.  In the first 3 rounds in the last 10 years we’ve done (2012-2022 drafts):

Justin Layne (2019)

Terrell Edmunds (2018)

Cam Sutton (2017)

Artie Burns (2016)

Sean Davis (2016)

Senquez Golson (2015)

10 years, 6 guys in the first 3 rounds, 10 years combined as the primary starter in Pitt.

On top of that the only outside FA we signed to a deal $10MM+ AAV was Haden over that time.

Hayden was a gift, the rest not so much. Rell was a solid player but never lived up to the draft slot

colbert really cost this team back then.  and still is actually with the KP pick and some others. 

1 hour ago, C$! said:

The only two first-round picks of the group were also major reaches Burns and Edmunds. They have a a strange blind spot drafting DB's

they also tend to get into a bind and get desperate. This is where UFA is good, but only if the capspace is there of course.  THis year for example, it might be a better idea to get a legit proven CB in UFA and be set, then use the draft for positions that the class is deep in.  

[VigilantZombie]

10 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

Kaboly has reported it will definitely be an outside hire.

I'll believe it when I see it.