Zach Wilson

[seminoles1]

4 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Not defending Wilson, but I'd be careful about using Josh Allen as a measuring stick. His year by year progress as a QB is a very clear exception to the rule imo. It could be 15-20 years before another project with as much work as Allen needed comes along in the first round and takes the massive strides he took.

How many teams give players more than 2-3 seasons? Teams have to pick up 5th year options after the player's 3rd season and NFL teams that are winning aren't patient.

[seminoles1]

1 minute ago, mtmmike said:

Huh

Is that your argument? The Jets have 6 wins?

[ronjon1990]

Just now, NYRaider said:

But Allen was also clearly a project coming out of Wyoming with limited production and elite physical tools. Wilson was viewed as a significantly more pro ready prospect. But agreed, Allen is going to cost a lot of people their jobs because teams are going to overdraft guys with flaws in hopes that they can develop them when Allen is really a one in a million type of player.

Still never understood this. He was really bad until his last year at BYU, and they basically played a JUCO schedule. The few games they actually faced "real" competition that year, he looked pretty bad really. Playing skeleton crew SunBelt programs and getting Heisman hype will forever be a mystery to me. 

I guess they needed a 3rd QB to make some drama for QB2 since Lawrence was hailed as the number 1 pick for like 3 years prior to draft day lol. 

[mtmmike]

1 minute ago, seminoles1 said:

Is that your argument? The Jets have 6 wins?

Huh

[seminoles1]

Just now, mtmmike said:

Huh

So you make up stats and post random thoughts. You're a hoot.

[ronjon1990]

2 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

How many teams give players more than 2-3 seasons? Teams have to pick up 5th year options after the player's 3rd season and NFL teams that are winning aren't patient.

I don't disagree. 

I also wouldn't draft a huge project at QB, regardless of what Josh Allen ultimately turns into. 

The Bills were ballsy and it paid off. But Allen panning out as well as he has, with all the work he needed, is second in success rate only to drafting a random QB in round 6 and getting a Hall of Famer out of him. 

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Still never understood this. He was really bad until his last year at BYU, and they basically played a JUCO schedule. The few games they actually faced "real" competition that year, he looked pretty bad really. Playing skeleton crew SunBelt programs and getting Heisman hype will forever be a mystery to me. 

I guess they needed a 3rd QB to make some drama for QB2 since Lawrence was hailed as the number 1 pick for like 3 years prior to draft day lol. 

In comparison to Josh Allen he was viewed as pro ready because he played better competition and had better numbers. In fairness to him he flashed as a freshman, regressed as a sophomore while he was hurt, and then took off as a junior.

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, ronjon1990 said:

I also wouldn't draft a huge project at QB, regardless of what Josh Allen ultimately turns into. 

Realistically though the three best QB's that have come into the league recently all came in with major issues/concerns. Lamar, Allen, and Mahomes were all clearly extremely talented prospects but none of them were shoe ins to be great players, they were all super flawed prospects.

[ronjon1990]

5 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

In comparison to Josh Allen he was viewed as pro ready because he played better competition and had better numbers. In fairness to him he flashed as a freshman, regressed as a sophomore while he was hurt, and then took off as a junior.

Context is key though. He took off while playing a SunBelt schedule in a year guys were opting out or flat out missing games. 

His lack of production against Coastal Carolina really stood out to me. It was the only stiff competition they faced, and he looked downright bad for the most part. 

Classic case of a one-hit wonder being overhyped. BYU plays their usual slate in 2020 and teams aren't dealing with opt outs, Zach Wilson fades into the ether upon graduation and might snag a day 3 pick at best. 

[Soko]

5 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Jimmy G is going to get paid this offseason and will be a starter somewhere next year. We've seen guys like Matt Ryan, Carson Wentz, and Sam Darnold handed starting roles in the last couple of years after teams willingly gave up draft capital to acquire them. Jimmy G is on pace for 4,000 yards/27 TD for a team that could potentially win the Super Bowl this year and has led his team to deep playoff runs every year that he has been the starter. 

Jimmy’s a bonafide QB purgatory guy, lol. If anyone in the universe thought Jimmy was “leading” these 49ers to the SBs footsteps all these years, they wouldn’t be letting him go. He’s a game manager. 

Which teams realistically aren’t going to have a FRP QB in the building, are going to afford a starting QB on the open market, and will allow Jimmy to walk in as the unquestioned starter? NFCS teams for sure, and the Commanders. Colts I’d be shocked if they didn’t retain Ryan and/or draft someone. Texans are drafting someone. Giants I suppose are a wild card, my prediction there has been (since they’ve been winning games) that Jones plays another year on the tag. Even in the NFCS the Bucs and Saints can’t afford him in all likelihood. 

That’s pretty much it. He’ll have suitors but there won’t be many job openings where he doesn’t have a young player up his *** on the bench. 

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Yin-Yang said:

Jimmy’s a bonafide QB purgatory guy, lol. If anyone in the universe thought Jimmy was “leading” these 49ers to the SBs footsteps all these years, they wouldn’t be letting him go. He’s a game manager. 

Which teams realistically aren’t going to have a FRP QB in the building, are going to afford a starting QB on the open market, and will allow Jimmy to walk in as the unquestioned starter? NFCS teams for sure, and the Commanders. Colts I’d be shocked if they didn’t retain Ryan and/or draft someone. Texans are drafting someone. Giants I suppose are a wild card, my prediction there has been (since they’ve been winning games) that Jones plays another year on the tag. Even in the NFCS the Bucs and Saints can’t afford him in all likelihood. 

That’s pretty much it. He’ll have suitors but there won’t be many job openings where he doesn’t have a young player up his *** on the bench. 

He's comparable to Alex Smith who landed on his feet as a starter twice after being replaced with a younger, more dynamic player. I agree with you that Jimmy isn't a great player at all but teams are extremely desperate for even average QB play. 

I think the Jets could be one of those landing spots tbh. He already has deep connections with their coaching staff, I mean they were literally on the staff when they went to the Super Bowl. And they've constructed their roster to be run first so that they can lean on their defense. Their weapons also looked good and produced with Flacco at QB.  

They've been competitive this year with shaky QB play at best from Flacco/Wilson. I think it's fair to assume that they could view Jimmy as a safe option that could put them in contention as their young core continues to progress. 

[ronjon1990]

10 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Realistically though the three best QB's that have come into the league recently all came in with major issues/concerns. Lamar, Allen, and Mahomes were all clearly extremely talented prospects but none of them were shoe ins to be great players, they were all super flawed prospects.

Meh, Lamar is living off of 1 stellar year. He's been alright to pretty crummy outside of it. He's toast once his legs start to go, and I don't believe he could operate an offense not uniquely highly tailored to him. 

Allen is an anomaly. 

Mahomes is tricky. Unlike the others, he didn't start immediately and walked into by far the best situation of the 3. If it works, it works. And it clearly did. But is Mahomes still Mahomes without Reid, Kelce, Hill, Alex Smith's mentoring, ect? If a guy is put into position to take chances and succeed, they'll stand out. But most round 1 QBs don't walk into such friendly confines. 

 

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, ronjon1990 said:

Meh, Lamar is living off of 1 stellar year. He's been alright to pretty crummy outside of it. He's toast once his legs start to go, and I don't believe he could operate an offense not uniquely highly tailored to him. 

Allen is an anomaly. 

Mahomes is tricky. Unlike the others, he didn't start immediately and walked into by far the best situation of the 3. If it works, it works. And it clearly did. But is Mahomes still Mahomes without Reid, Kelce, Hill, Alex Smith's mentoring, ect? If a guy is put into position to take chances and succeed, they'll stand out. But most round 1 QBs don't walk into such friendly confines. 

But he has the talent that warrants building your entire system around him and at his peak has proven he can play at an MVP level. 

Mahomes definitely thrived in large part to his environment but that's the case with basically every great QB.

[Soko]

17 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

He's comparable to Alex Smith who landed on his feet as a starter twice after being replaced with a younger, more dynamic player. I agree with you that Jimmy isn't a great player at all but teams are extremely desperate for even average QB play. 

Are they? An “extremely desperate” team probably would’ve traded for him, if they were indeed “extremely desperate”. Yeah, even game managing level QB play will always have a place in the league, but there’s still a lot of moving parts. 

I’d find it hard to imagine that Jimmy wants to go somewhere where they’re not committed to him, after the last couple seasons with SF. Only a handful are in a realistic position to offer that, and really only two of the four teams in the NFCS.

17 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I think the Jets could be one of those landing spots tbh. He already has deep connections with their coaching staff, I mean they were literally on the staff when they went to the Super Bowl. And they've constructed their roster to be run first so that they can lean on their defense. Their weapons also looked good and produced with Flacco at QB.  

They've been competitive this year with shaky QB play at best from Flacco/Wilson. I think it's fair to assume that they could view Jimmy as a safe option that could put them in contention as their young core continues to progress. 

I excluded the Jets because I do not see them going into 2023 thinking “Zach Wilson is absolutely the backup QB, let’s bring in a starter”. Best case scenario there is it’s a QB competition that Jimmy wins, which would require both Jimmy being okay with walking into a competition and the Jets being okay with dumping a chunk of change on another QB that isn’t going to push them over the edge. If everyone involved is cool with that, then as I said, it’s a great fit.

[NYRaider]

Just now, Yin-Yang said:

Are they? An “extremely desperate” team probably would’ve traded for him, if they were indeed “extremely desperate”. Yeah, even game managing level QB play will always have a place in the league, but there’s still a lot of moving parts. 

I’d find it hard to imagine that Jimmy wants to go somewhere where they’re not committed to him, after the last couple seasons with SF. Only a handful are in a realistic position to offer that, and really only two of the four teams in the NFCS.

I excluded the Jets because I do not see them going into 2023 thinking “Zach Wilson is absolutely the backup QB, let’s bring in a starter”. Best case scenario there is it’s a QB competition that Jimmy wins, which would require both Jimmy being okay with walking into a competition and the Jets being okay with dumping a chunk of change on another QB that isn’t going to push them over the edge. If everyone involved is cool with that, then as I said, it’s a great fit.

Didn't the 49ers reportedly have offers on the table but asked for more? Teams were also reluctant to trade for him because of his shoulder issue and the fact that most teams thought they'd eventually have to cut him because of his contract. 

We've seen guys like Wentz, Darnold, etc. handed starting roles with teams year after year. I don't think all 31 teams are going to say nah to Jimmy. 

The Jets are considering benching him in the middle of a playoff run for Mike White or Joe Flacco...