2023 Off-season Talk

[Bobby816]

24 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Would love to hear everyone crapping on Rodgers and Carr to explain their plans.  All I hear is a lot of Rodgers will retire so don't want to give up assets for a rental or Carr isn't good enough to move the needle.

What are we doing then? 

You must not be paying attention.

Wilson to one might still be good. If he isn’t it’s because we hired the wrong OC. Can’t be Wilson, has to be the coaches.

There’s other ones who want the guys that are average that put us in no man’s land of maybe making the playoffs bc anything is better than what we had at QB. But also maybe have us making the playoffs, but clearly not on the level of the great AFC teams. So we’re in no man’s land.

And let’s not forget how valuable our draft picks are. Like we hit on them consistently.

We also are a perfect team to be able to take a hit youth wise. We potentially can have 6 guys over the last 2 years in the 1st 2 rounds that are really good to great.  Obviously most teams would only average 4 picks in that time, never mind hit on all of them. We had 7 picks and might have hot on 6. So the youth of this team is just fine if we trade away early picks.

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, GangGreen420 said:

The plan should be to sign a capable guy for 1-2 years whether that’s Rodgers at a decent price or Tannehill/someone else and draft a QB again. That’s what I would do, but I don’t run the team.

And who is that QB then you’re drafting? You choosing one at 13? You waiting and developing a guy from the mid rounds (you can still do this option FYI even if we sign Rodgers)?

 

Keep in mind we’ve built this team with defense. And it’s young. So we aren’t going to ever be a bottom team. To get a QB via draft we likely have to be ok taking a guy not at the top of the draft, trading a ton of draft picks to move up or develop mid round guys. Tannehill comes here and we’re likely drafting late teens early 20s. Take this year for example. That area likely Young, Stroud, Levis and possibly Richardson are gone by then. So you taking who then? Hooker (who I like fyi). But is probably an overdraft there. So you skip on him and now yoir to a whole other tier of guys that you have no clue how good they’ll be. But the odds are stacked against them to ever be a franchise QB. 

[GangGreen420]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

When have you seen me say Carr is elite? I’ve said he’s good.

But you saw how hard it was for us to make the playoffs with an elite defense but awful QB play. It’s just as hard to make the playoffs with a good offense but one of the wriest defenses.

 

It’s quite baffling to see how some are trying to take player x and plug him into x situation and think you still get x player. Thought Stafford erased this for good a year ago. 

I didn’t say you did. But say QB is the be all end all and you list these names of guys that made the playoffs as “elite” or on the way yet you want to sign Derek Carr. It’s just proving my point.

Theres a ton of factors at play.

[GangGreen420]

1 minute ago, Bobby816 said:

And who is that QB then you’re drafting? You choosing one at 13? You waiting and developing a guy from the mid rounds (you can still do this option FYI even if we sign Rodgers)?

 

Keep in mind we’ve built this team with defense. And it’s young. So we aren’t going to ever be a bottom team. To get a QB via draft we likely have to be ok taking a guy not at the top of the draft, trading a ton of draft picks to move up or develop mid round guys. Tannehill comes here and we’re likely drafting late teens early 20s. Take this year for example. That area likely Young, Stroud, Levis and possibly Richardson are gone by then. So you taking who then? Hooker (who I like fyi). But is probably an overdraft there. So you skip on him and now yoir to a whole other tier of guys that you have no clue how good they’ll be. But the odds are stacked against them to ever be a franchise QB. 

That’s the job of the GM to draft the correct QB. They are all over the draft. It doesn’t have to be this year, it can be next year.

The Chiefs got Mahomes at 10 and Watson went two picks after and QB needy teams passed on them both. Jalen Hurts was a 2nd rounder. Lamar Jackson was the last pick in the first round. Miss me with this need a top pick to get a QB nonsense. If we are drafting in the 20s and there’s a guy you like that sliding trade up. 

[Bobby816]

Just now, GangGreen420 said:

I didn’t say you did. But say QB is the be all end all and you list these names of guys that made the playoffs as “elite” or on the way yet you want to sign Derek Carr. It’s just proving my point.

Theres a ton of factors at play.

You always need good QB play to win in this league. No team wins consistently with poor QB play. A team winning doesn’t equal an elite QB. Is Purdy elite? I mean he was undefeated in what 8 games and then got injured in his only loss. So he must be better than Mahomes bc he has a better win percentage.

 

Or can it also be what’s around the QB? LIKE IVE BEEN SAYING. More than 1/2 of you just saw Carr is trash as if you’re getting the mirror image or Carr on this team. I guess our defense is the same as there’s. I guess our coaching is the same. I guess the guys around him as weapons are the same.

 

As I said this whole narrative that there’s player X and he goes to team A that he’s going to be the same X player is crazy. 

[Rockice_8]

10 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said:

The plan should be to sign a capable guy for 1-2 years whether that’s Rodgers at a decent price or Tannehill/someone else and draft a QB again. That’s what I would do, but I don’t run the team.

I'm confused then why are people anti Carr and anti Rodgers?  Is Carr some sort of long term answer?  

Get the best QB available and draft one in the middle rounds is the right thing to do.  The two best are Rodgers/Carr so why are we not going hard to land one of them then?  Seems like there is so much Roders/Carr hate going around like we shouldn't be targeting them. 

[Bobby816]

3 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said:

That’s the job of the GM to draft the correct QB. They are all over the draft. It doesn’t have to be this year, it can be next year.

The Chiefs got Mahomes at 10 and Watson went two picks after and QB needy teams passed on them both. Jalen Hurts was a 2nd rounder. Lamar Jackson was the last pick in the first round. Miss me with this need a top pick to get a QB nonsense. If we are drafting in the 20s and there’s a guy you like that sliding trade up. 

And that cost is huge. So that’s where guys lose me. So you’d be ok trading multiple 1st rounders perhaps to move up in the draft for an unknown. But won’t trade picks to get a sure thing?

[GangGreen420]

1 minute ago, Bobby816 said:

You always need good QB play to win in this league. No team wins consistently with poor QB play. A team winning doesn’t equal an elite QB. Is Purdy elite? I mean he was undefeated in what 8 games and then got injured in his only loss. So he must be better than Mahomes bc he has a better win percentage.

 

Or can it also be what’s around the QB? LIKE IVE BEEN SAYING. More than 1/2 of you just saw Carr is trash as if you’re getting the mirror image or Carr on this team. I guess our defense is the same as there’s. I guess our coaching is the same. I guess the guys around him as weapons are the same.

 

As I said this whole narrative that there’s player X and he goes to team A that he’s going to be the same X player is crazy. 

Lol dude no one is saying we don’t need good QB play, good grief. There’s always a different example. Like your Stafford comp, look at Russell Wilson. 
 

We aren’t saying entirely different things here

[GangGreen420]

1 minute ago, Bobby816 said:

And that cost is huge. So that’s where guys lose me. So you’d be ok trading multiple 1st rounders perhaps to move up in the draft for an unknown. But won’t trade picks to get a sure thing?

We don’t HAVE to trade up. That’s just an example. Someone can fall into our laps. Are you arguing for the sake of arguing or what? What sure thing are you referring to trading for? Rodgers? I’ve said multiple times I’d be okay with Rodgers at a fair cost.

[GangGreen420]

4 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

I'm confused then why are people anti Carr and anti Rodgers?  Is Carr some sort of long term answer?  

Get the best QB available and draft one in the middle rounds is the right thing to do.  The two best are Rodgers/Carr so why are we not going hard to land one of them then?  Seems like there is so much Roders/Carr hate going around like we shouldn't be targeting them. 

I’m only anti Rodgers if the cost is a FRP+. Carr likely isn’t signing a deal that we can get out of after 2 years so I don’t really want that

[Bobby816]

3 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said:

Lol dude no one is saying we don’t need good QB play, good grief. There’s always a different example. Like your Stafford comp, look at Russell Wilson. 
 

We aren’t saying entirely different things here

Well you are though. You and King are pretty much saying Carr isn’t good.

If you don’t want him that’s fine. Just say you don’t want him. For example I want nothing to do with Tannehill. Not out here saying he’s trash though. I’ve simply said I don’t want him. 

But to say a guy isn’t good when they are is where it differs to most.

And that’s why you 2 are the ones getting heat.

[GangGreen420]

1 minute ago, Bobby816 said:

Well you are though. You and King are pretty much saying Carr isn’t good.

If you don’t want him that’s fine. Just say you don’t want him. For example I want nothing to do with Tannehill. Not out here saying he’s trash though. I’ve simply said I don’t want him. 

But to say a guy isn’t good when they are is where it differs to most.

And that’s why you 2 are the ones getting heat.

What are you even going on about? I’ve never said Carr isn’t good, I’ve said I don’t want him. 
 

show me where I’ve said Carr isn’t good or trashed him. Like it even matters.

[Bobby816]

3 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said:

What are you even going on about? I’ve never said Carr isn’t good, I’ve said I don’t want him. 
 

show me where I’ve said Carr isn’t good or trashed him. Like it even matters.

So what’s your reason then for not wanting him

[GangGreen420]

11 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

So what’s your reason then for not wanting him

The same reason the Raiders don’t want him. He’s good, but is he good enough to win a Super Bowl? We don’t know.  I’d rather take a shot in the draft again than pay him for 4-5 years.

All those QBs you posted before that made the playoffs, what’s the recurring theme there?

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, GangGreen420 said:

The same reason the Raiders don’t want him. He’s good, but is he good enough to win a Super Bowl? We don’t know.  I’d rather take a shot in the draft again than pay him for 4-5 years.

All those QBs you posted before that made the playoffs, what’s the recurring theme there?

They’re all 1st rounder and most all drafted in the top 10?

If it was as simple as you say we wouldn’t be here. Darnold and Wilson we drafted top 3 and that didn’t work for us.