Titans to sign LB Azeez Al-Shaair

[Soko]

3 minutes ago, Daniel said:

You're just kind of showing your ignorance.  Titans defense was very good last year, even without Harold Landry, offense was awful.

A great run defense, sure. A great defense, though? By what metric were they “great”?

Yards? Yards/drive? Points? Points/drive? DVOA? Creating turnovers? Rushing the passer? Red zone?%?

Great run defense. Good on third down. Below average to atrocious virtually everywhere else. And yes, injuries contributed, but you said they were great. 

[-Hope-]

53 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Nick Bosa, Arik Armstead, Fred Warner, Hufanga.

Point is, dude was a role player on an elite defense surrounded by elite talent. Won’t be the case in Tennessee, as presently constructed. 

he was a role player in 2022, but started nearly all of 2021 in relief of dre greenlaw and played very well, so it's not like he's never been asked to start before. this is silly from both ends.

[DTMW78]

1 minute ago, -Hope- said:

he was a role player in 2022, but started nearly all of 2021 in relief of dre greenlaw and played very well, so it's not like he's never been asked to start before. this is silly from both ends.

Yep Dre really kicked on this year but Aziz is a starting quality LB no doubt about it..

Great signing for Tennessee.

[Soko]

10 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

he was a role player in 2022, but started nearly all of 2021 in relief of dre greenlaw and played very well, so it's not like he's never been asked to start before. this is silly from both ends.

Being a role player has less to do with snap counts and more to do with what you’re asked to do, IMO. 

Is this an a brand new, earth breaking take, to generally not trust secondary players coming from elite defenses to go to new teams and be the same/better than they were? Sometimes those sort of things work out, but I don’t believe that’s usually the case.

EDIT: Honestly, I’d be saying the same if Greenlaw if it were him that didn’t get retained. At the end of the day this isn’t a huge contract so it won’t do all that much damage, but that doesn’t change the take on the player.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Yin-Yang

[-Hope-]

14 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Being a role player has less to do with snap counts and more to do with what you’re asked to do, IMO. 

Is this an a brand new, earth breaking take, to generally not trust secondary players coming from elite defenses to go to new teams and be the same/better than they were? Sometimes those sort of things work out, but I don’t believe that’s usually the case.

EDIT: Honestly, I’d be saying the same if Greenlaw if it were him that didn’t get retained. At the end of the day this isn’t a huge contract so it won’t do all that much damage, but that doesn’t change the take on the player.

it's not that i care so much about your take on the player, it's that you keep saying things that are obviously incorrect lol. hell, now you're changing the definition of "role player" to mean "uhhhh a guy who started but different, for some reason." whether al-shaair works out with tennessee is going to be much more about scheme fit and his strengths and weaknesses than any of this nonsense.

[Soko]

8 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

it's not that i care so much about your take on the player, it's that you keep saying things that are obviously incorrect lol. hell, now you're changing the definition of "role player" to mean "uhhhh a guy who started but different, for some reason." whether al-shaair works out with tennessee is going to be much more about scheme fit and his strengths and weaknesses than any of this nonsense.

What did I say that was incorrect? That the Titans aren’t an elite defense, where the dude will be surrounded by elite talent? I clearly corrected myself and said Tennessee 2022 was an all-time unit, so.

And lmao. “But but but he had starts two years ago, he can’t be a role player”. Tell me who the engines are of that defense, who the impact defenders are. Azeez Al-Shair ain’t one of them. Neither was Samson Ebukam (15 starts). Neither was Marcus Epps for Philly. Or Miles Sanders. They’re role players that played well at times as members of elite units. Being a starter doesn’t exclude you from being a role player. The league’s full of them.

Trusting them is how you fall into Byron Maxwell. Or Patrick Chung. Or Malcolm Smith. Or Donald Thomas. Or Austin Hooper. Or Corey Littleton. Or Dante Fowler.

[-Hope-]

4 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

What did I say that was incorrect? That the Titans aren’t an elite defense, where the dude will be surrounded by elite talent? I clearly corrected myself and said Tennessee 2022 was an all-time unit, so.

And lmao. “But but but he had starts two years ago, he can’t be a role player”. Tell me who the engines are of that defense, who the impact defenders are. Azeez Al-Shair ain’t one of them. Neither was Samson Ebukam (15 starts). Neither was Marcus Epps for Philly. Or Miles Sanders. They’re role players that played well at times as members of elite units. Being a starter doesn’t exclude you from being a role player. The league’s full of them.

Trusting them is how you fall into Byron Maxwell. Or Patrick Chung. Or Malcolm Smith. Or Donald Thomas. Or Austin Hooper. Or Corey Littleton. Or Dante Fowler.

what on earth are you talking about? nobody is expecting this dude to blossom into some kind of game wrecker. yes, he is a “role player” in the sense that he will fill a specific role in Tennessee’s defense just like every other player does…like, obviously lmao? welcome to football? what you are describing as players being asked to take on roles they are unsuited for, which is yet another in your long string of bizarre assumptions about this. his responsibilities in SF were quite similar to david long’s and that is very likely why they signed him. what about this is so complicated to you?

it’s funny you mentioned austin hooper; he did basically exactly what he was signed to do. because he wasn’t signed to be a star, and neither is this guy. you’re boxing against shadows for no reason in particular.

[Soko]

1 minute ago, -Hope- said:

what on earth are you talking about? nobody is expecting this dude to blossom into some kind of game wrecker. yes, he is a “role player” in the sense that he will fill a specific role in Tennessee’s defense just like every other player does…like, obviously lmao? welcome to football? what you are describing as players being asked to take on roles they are unsuited for, which is yet another in your long string of bizarre assumptions about this. his responsibilities in SF were quite similar to david long’s and that is very likely why they signed him. what about this is so complicated to you?

it’s funny you mentioned austin hooper; he did basically exactly what he was signed to do. because he wasn’t signed to be a star, and neither is this guy. you’re boxing against shadows for no reason in particular.

So basically you’re mad and calling things incorrect, because I called him a role player, but agree with me that he’s a role player? Gotcha.

His responsibilities in SF also involved playing behind the league’s best/one of the league’s best front 7 and next to the best LBer in the league - a luxury that he won’t enjoy in Tennessee. That’s the point. Being behind Bosa/Armstead and next to Fred Warner is a step up from Simmons/Autry and next to [insert JAG here].

Riiight, Cleveland signed Hooper to be the highest paid TE in the league so that he could give them 80-800-7 over the course of two seasons…unless you mistakenly thought I meant Titans Hooper, which wouldn’t make sense, since I was clearly talking about players apart of elite units, which Browns Hooper was not. 

I’ve already said it’s not for a huge chunk of change, so it’s not the end of the world. The only reason I’m “boxing against shadows” is because a bunch of Titans fans got upset that I said there was a gap between them and the 49ers (which there is). 

[-Hope-]

9 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

So basically you’re mad and calling things incorrect, because I called him a role player, but agree with me that he’s a role player? Gotcha.

His responsibilities in SF also involved playing behind the league’s best/one of the league’s best front 7 and next to the best LBer in the league - a luxury that he won’t enjoy in Tennessee. That’s the point. Being behind Bosa/Armstead and next to Fred Warner is a step up from Simmons/Autry and next to [insert JAG here].

Riiight, Cleveland signed Hooper to be the highest paid TE in the league so that he could give them 80-800-7 over the course of two seasons…unless you mistakenly thought I meant Titans Hooper, which wouldn’t make sense, since I was clearly talking about players apart of elite units, which Browns Hooper was not. 

I’ve already said it’s not for a huge chunk of change, so it’s not the end of the world. The only reason I’m “boxing against shadows” is because a bunch of Titans fans got upset that I said there was a gap between them and the 49ers (which there is). 

my point is that every player is a role player by your definition. which is fine, because it’s true! it’s just not a meaningful distinction. especially given what he’ll be asked to do in tennessee.

and everyone in this thread has admitted there’s a gap, it’s just not the chasm you’re pretending it is. Tennessee’s front 4, when healthy, is up there among the best in football. the issue last year was that it wasn’t healthy at all, but you saw what they did in 2021. or maybe you didn’t, which would explain why you’re talking all this nonsense. there has in fact been ample discussion of how much david long himself benefitted from playing behind jeffery simmons and co. like i’ve been saying this whole time: tennessee signed al-shaair because he fits a role and a profile, and chalking it all up to his supporting cast is simply lazy analysis.

and yeah, i mentioned austin hooper precisely because when he *was* signed to a role actually commensurate with his skills, he did just fine. your whole thing seems to be based on the completely unfounded assertion that al-shaair is going to be expected to do all this stuff he’s not done proficiently before. maybe he is, but there’s very little to indicate that given where the titans’ talent on defense is, where his skillset lies, and how he’s going to be used schematically, which is a much less lazy discussion than  “his supporting cast is worse so he’s going to be worse.” 

Edited March 14, 2023 by -Hope-

[Soko]

16 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

my point is that every player is a role player by your definition. which is fine, because it’s true! it’s just not a meaningful distinction. especially given what he’ll be asked to do in tennessee.

“By my definition” - what is that definition, that I must’ve clearly stated? You keep saying that, so please quote me because I must’ve missed it.

16 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

and everyone in this thread has admitted there’s a gap, it’s just not the chasm you’re pretending it is.

No, “everyone” actually hasn’t. One guy said there’s no difference going from an elite defense to a great defense, and I’ve gotten nothing but pushback for asking how the Titans defense in 2022 was great aside from defending the run. No one’s answered that, only disagreed. 

16 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

Tennessee’s front 4, when healthy, is up there among the best in football. the issue last year was that it wasn’t healthy at all, but you saw what they did in 2021. or maybe you didn’t, which would explain why you’re talking all this nonsense.

I had something long typed out but feel my original point’s been sidetracked enough that I don’t want to get into it. But I disagree. Bud’s a JAG/often hurt. Landry was a good player in 2021. Simmons is awesome, high end DT. Autry is a very solid player too. “One of the best” I guess is pretty subjective, but they’re not a group I saw as a top 3-5 front, especially if we’re just going to grant health.

16 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

there has in fact been ample discussion of how much david long himself benefitted from playing behind jeffery simmons and co.

Just like Al-Shair.

16 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

like i’ve been saying this whole time: tennessee signed al-shaair because he fits a role and a profile, and chalking it all up to his supporting cast is simply lazy analysis.

A role that he fulfilled a two seasons ago playing with elite talent on an elite defense. Expecting replication of that when not on an elite defense, is a big risk, hence the lack of trust. We’ve seen it too many times.

Does Tennessee have the record of elevating defensive players within their scheme, like SF does? Do they have the record of success defensively that SF does? Do they recycle role players in and out but still play at an elite level, like SF does? Do they have elite players at all three levels, including All-Pros and a DPOY, like SF does? 

16 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

and yeah, i mentioned austin hooper precisely because when he *was* signed to a role actually commensurate with his skills, he did just fine.

Okay? He was coming off a very strong season in Atlanta, a part of an elite offense. Do you think Cleveland was happy with what they got out of Hooper, yes or no?

16 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

your whole thing seems to be based on the completely unfounded assertion that al-shaair is going to be expected to do all this stuff he’s not done proficiently before.

It is an unfounded assertion. Because I didn’t say that. You’re just putting words in my mouth, lol. Or making assumptions. I said I didn’t trust him (or any secondary/role player coming from an elite unit) and I said the Titans didn’t have a “great” defense. Talk about “boxing shadows”…

I actually explicitly said “replicating” as far as maintaining that level of play - not “do stuff he’s not done proficiently before”. Your outrage is completely made up in your own head.

16 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

maybe he is, but there’s very little to indicate that given where the titans’ talent on defense is, where his skillset lies, and how he’s going to be used schematically, which is a much less lazy discussion than  “his supporting cast is worse so he’s going to be worse.” 

You could say the same thing about a laundry list of secondary guys. Yet still the list of role players whose level of play escalate after leaving an elite unit surrounded by elite talent, is a lot smaller than the list of role players whose level of play rises. I said the same thing about Edmunds before he signed in Chicago, he’s not the type of guy I’d put faith in. That’s not how it works 100% of the time and I’m not saying it’s an unbreakable law of the NFL - just that I don’t trust players in that situation. And that, along with the Titans not being a “great” defense, is all I’ve said. 

[Calamity_Cometh]

You guys are hilarious

[-Hope-]

29 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

“By my definition” - what is that definition, that I must’ve clearly stated? You keep saying that, so please quote me because I must’ve missed it.

No, “everyone” actually hasn’t. One guy said there’s no difference going from an elite defense to a great defense, and I’ve gotten nothing but pushback for asking how the Titans defense in 2022 was great aside from defending the run. No one’s answered that, only disagreed. 

I had something long typed out but feel my original point’s been sidetracked enough that I don’t want to get into it. But I disagree. Bud’s a JAG/often hurt. Landry was a good player in 2021. Simmons is awesome, high end DT. Autry is a very solid player too. “One of the best” I guess is pretty subjective, but they’re not a group I saw as a top 3-5 front, especially if we’re just going to grant health.

Just like Al-Shair.

A role that he fulfilled a two seasons ago playing with elite talent on an elite defense. Expecting replication of that when not on an elite defense, is a big risk, hence the lack of trust. We’ve seen it too many times.

Does Tennessee have the record of elevating defensive players within their scheme, like SF does? Do they have the record of success defensively that SF does? Do they recycle role players in and out but still play at an elite level, like SF does? Do they have elite players at all three levels, including All-Pros and a DPOY, like SF does? 

Okay? He was coming off a very strong season in Atlanta, a part of an elite offense. Do you think Cleveland was happy with what they got out of Hooper, yes or no?

It is an unfounded assertion. Because I didn’t say that. You’re just putting words in my mouth, lol. Or making assumptions. I said I didn’t trust him (or any secondary/role player coming from an elite unit) and I said the Titans didn’t have a “great” defense. Talk about “boxing shadows”…

I actually explicitly said “replicating” as far as maintaining that level of play - not “do stuff he’s not done proficiently before”. Your outrage is completely made up in your own head.

You could say the same thing about a laundry list of secondary guys. Yet still the list of role players whose level of play escalate after leaving an elite unit surrounded by elite talent, is a lot smaller than the list of role players whose level of play rises. I said the same thing about Edmunds before he signed in Chicago, he’s not the type of guy I’d put faith in. That’s not how it works 100% of the time and I’m not saying it’s an unbreakable law of the NFL - just that I don’t trust players in that situation. And that, along with the Titans not being a “great” defense, is all I’ve said. 

lol, i'm not doing this. there's just too much ridiculous misinterpretation of and talking past what i'm saying. it's like speaking to a brick wall. the hooper stuff in particular i am in disbelief at. my entire point this whole time has been that cleveland expected too much of him, tennessee did not, and i do not think we are going to be asking the same thing of al-shaair, and somehow you're treating that as some sort of gotcha. i'll just say this: YES, the titans' defense does have a track record of elevating role players and guys off the street. it's arguably been vrabel's strongest calling card as a coach, in fact, and several of those guys, including demarcus walker this year, have parlayed it into getting paid elsewhere. denico autry was a rotational player who we acquired and made a starter and he's played the best ball of his career these past two years (before getting injured late this season, anyway). dane cruikshank, a no-name 5th round pick, shut down every tight end we played in 2021, including travis kelce, in our scheme and now he's a backup for the bears doing not much of anything. hell, you could say the same for david long, a 5th rounder. teair tart has gone from an undrafted free agent into one of the league's better nose tackles. andrew adams came in off of pittsburgh's practice squad during the regular season, started for us at safety almost all year due to injuries, and had the best year of his career. for as frequently incompetent as this team is on offense, mike vrabel has a gift for making gold out of low-key defensive acquisitions and getting the unit playing significantly above its talent level.

it's not as though i think tennessee is immune to bad signings- i hated the bud dupree contract at the time and was proven right. but that wasn't because he played next to TJ watt, it's because his pressure numbers sucked. there's always a more meaningful analysis than "he played next to good players." when we pick up a guy for a modest contract who fits the athletic profile we look for in our ILBs, has produced in a defensive scheme that's relatively similar to ours, and has put on film the ability to run fit and to cover, i feel pretty fine about it.

Edited March 15, 2023 by -Hope-

[Geezy]

Usually I’m against poaching role players from good defenses but every time I watched the 9ers Azeez popped. I think he’s a guy in his own right. Wish the Raiders were in on this.