Week 2 - Seahawks vs Lions Post Game Observations

[Just Want A Title]

This was a baffling loss.  Seattle is always well-coached but the Lions had some distinct advantages.  They deserve a lot of credit for tying the game late and pushing it into overtime.  I was surprised that Dan Campbell didn't go for the win in regulation.  Still, he did a good job of getting the tying field goal with no-time left in regulation.  Unfortunately, our defense couldn't get the stops that we needed in overtime.  That said:

Coaching:  For a team that is know for being aggressive, they are having a tough time taking advantage of mismatches or creating them.  Our D-Line should have been able to create a lot of havoc today but were mostly held in check.  For the second week on a row our secondary showed zero-ball skills and a not-so-great pass-rush.   Our offense did a better job of getting down field and put up a decent number of points but they put up 14 points in the first half after putting up only 7 in Week 1.  It seems like this team willing to play things close and try to put things away in the 4th quarter.  They need to be more aggressive early in the game and not "settle" for keeping things close.  

Offense:

- Jared Goff had a pretty good game despite the pick-6.  He was successful on some downfield shots.  Personally, I think that pick-6 is the result of calling too many out-routes and becoming too predictable.  That one lies with Ben Johnson

- I hope David Montgomery's injury isn't serious because he was playing really well.  I am hoping to see that TD play that was called back again soon.  He showed that he is a much more complete RB than he was given credit for in Chicago

- Jahmyr Gibbs had another solid day.  He is know for his speed but he is doing a good job of getting first downs when we need them.  Jared Goff missed him when he was wide open but that happens sometimes.  That drop on the post-route from the slot was a killer but I am surprised the Lions didn't go back to that.  That is another mistake I would put on Ben Johnson.  Jahmyr Gibbs is due to break off a big play or big plays soon  

- I am not sure what to say about the O-Line.  There were times when they flashed dominance.  For the most part, our running game was strong.  Our pass blocking was inconsistent.  There were times when they let the pass rush get to Jared Goff and/or get in his face

- Sam LaPorta had another good game.  He flashed early but kind of disappeared until late in the game  

- ARSB had a really good game.  It was nice to see him get some deeper routes.  He needs a complimentary threat in the worst way right now.   TE, WR, RB:  it doesn't really matter.  The offense needs another receiver that can make defenses pay

- Antoine Green made his first catch on an out-route.  It was good to see him on the field but he has shown that he knows how to work the deep-middle of the field.  As stated above, we need another receiving threat.  I know he is a rookie but his strengths are exactly what our offense needs.  That is another Ben Johnson issue

- Josh Reynolds made some good plays today. He has some of the downfield capabilities we have been missing

- Where is James Mitchell?  He played pretty well last year but has been invisible so far

Defense:

-  It wasn't a mirage:  Kerby Joseph's tackling continues to be much improved over last year

- Alex Anzalone is playing very well so far.  His sack late in the game was a huge play

- Seattle was able to do so damage with the TEs.  I am not sure why that continues to happen

- Our interior D-Lineman are very good in run support but didn't seem to be a factor in the passing game.  There was a little push upfield but they didn't collapse the pocket very often.

- Alim McNeil has shown nothing in his pass-rush through two games.  I don't know if it is the scheme or something else.  He hasn't take the step forward most people expected so far

- As mentioned above, I don't know if it is a scheme-related issue but Aidan Hutchinson isn't getting results in the passing game right now.  He is playing out-of-control and taking himself out of plays.  He made a nice play on the tipped pass late by being in position and not getting too far upfield.  

- Why in the world was James Houston running downfield in coverage?  I don't know what was intended but James Houston has no business being in coverage 15-20 yards down field.  I know they want him to become a complete player but his strength is being a complimentary pass-rusher.  Aaron Glenn probably needs to paly to his strengths.  Considering how badly we are doing at generating a pass-rush James Houston should be doing what he clearly does best

- I don't know what is going on with Jerry Jacobs but he is showing very poor awareness and almost zero ball skills

- Speaking of ball skills:  I don't know if it is the lack of pass-rush or if Aaron Glenn is scheming to keep the ball in front of his DBs to limit long TDs but ball skills have been totally absent from their first two games with their starting CBs and Safeties.  Deflections, tipped balls, INTs-they just aren't happening.  When they do get a chance to make a play they don't.  Kerby Joseph had a pass hit him in the hands and he put it on the ground

Special Teams:

- Kudos to Riley Patterson for making the late FG to tie the game.  It wasn't a super-difficult kick but he deserves credit for making something like that under pressure

Overall, the lions are 1-1 after playing two pretty tough teams.  Andy Reid, Steve Spagnuolo and Pete Carrol have been some of the brightest minds in the game for quite a while.  Still, this game was one that I suspect will be viewed as "the one that got away".  The Lions seem to be thinking a little too much.  Being able to win games in the 4th quarter is great.  Being able to put things away in the first three quarters would be nice to see.   Hopefully we will start seeing that very soon.  It might be a disappointing season if we don't start seeing that.  Thoughts?

Edited September 17, 2023 by Just Want A Title

[Just Want A Title]

I hate saying this but right now, our defense looks like a "bend but don't break" defense.  I hope I am wrong about that.  Also, the case for getting Brodric Martin some playing time is getting stronger every game right now.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Just Want A Title

[detfan782004]

Campbell got soft late. He played for the loss in OT versus doing for the W.

Plays all ballsy early on 4th and the gets conservative when it mattered most.

He is a great coach but he needs taught how to managE games. 

[Just Want A Title]

9 minutes ago, detfan782004 said:

Campbell got soft late. He played for the loss in OT versus doing for the W.

Plays all ballsy early on 4th and the gets conservative when it mattered most.

He is a great coach but he needs taught how to managE games. 

I was reading some of that criticism in the gameday thread.  I have to say that I think that criticism is too harsh.  They got down field and kicked the FG with 00 on the clock.  That is solid clock management.  I think he believed that after what the defense showed on the previous series that they could keep the Seahawks out of the endzone.  You have to start with Aaron Glenn and the total absence of a pass-rush with that.  The other part is that coaches don't play the game.  Did Hutch or McNeil register a sack?  Did any of our DB (CJGJ, Kerby Joseph, Cam Sutton Jerry Jacobs) whose ball-hawking skills were touted most of the off-season, make a crucial pass deflection or INT?  Nope.  

It may be Week 2 but there should be some changes under consideration with the D-Line.   

[detfan782004]

5 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said:

I was reading some of that criticism in the gameday thread.  I have to say that I think that criticism is too harsh.  They got down field and kicked the FG with 00 on the clock.  That is solid clock management.  I think he believed that after what the defense showed on the previous series that they could keep the Seahawks out of the endzone.  You have to start with Aaron Glenn and the total absence of a pass-rush with that.  The other part is that coaches don't play the game.  Did Hutch or McNeil register a sack?  Did any of our DB (CJGJ, Kerby Joseph, Cam Sutton Jerry Jacobs) whose ball-hawking skills were touted most of the off-season, make a crucial pass deflection or INT?  Nope.  

It may be Week 2 but there should be some changes under consideration with the D-Line.   

There is criticism all over the internet for his lack of going for the win. His lack of game management. 
 

Your are in a very slim minority that thinks that was solid clock management. 

[detfan782004]

11 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said:

I was reading some of that criticism in the gameday thread.  I have to say that I think that criticism is too harsh.  They got down field and kicked the FG with 00 on the clock.  That is solid clock management.  I think he believed that after what the defense showed on the previous series that they could keep the Seahawks out of the endzone.  You have to start with Aaron Glenn and the total absence of a pass-rush with that.  The other part is that coaches don't play the game.  Did Hutch or McNeil register a sack?  Did any of our DB (CJGJ, Kerby Joseph, Cam Sutton Jerry Jacobs) whose ball-hawking skills were touted most of the off-season, make a crucial pass deflection or INT?  Nope.  

It may be Week 2 but there should be some changes under consideration with the D-Line.   

You also said did they register a sack? Nope. He was at 80% pass completion.

nothing showed Detroit could slow them down in OT 

 

how are They magically going to generate a rush they couldn't in 4 qtrs?

Playing for OT was playing for a Loss period 

Edited September 17, 2023 by detfan782004

[Just Want A Title]

2 minutes ago, detfan782004 said:

You also said did they register a sack? Nope. He was at 80% pass completion.

nothing showed Detroit could slow them down in OT 

Some of this stems from the philosophy of playing to keep things close early in the game.  They did do that.  However, if allow other teams to stay within striking distance sooner or later you are going to get burned.  Dan Campbell definitely should be faulted for that.  They need to turn their best players loose early and start winning games on the first three quarters.

[detfan782004]

I think they did turn their best players lose. The offense looked good. 
 

The defense just isn't good. 

[Just Want A Title]

1 minute ago, detfan782004 said:

I think they did turn their best players lose. The offense looked good. 
 

The defense just isn't good. 

The poor play isn't about talent level any more.  At least is shouldn't be.  Kerby Joseph, CJGJ and Brian Branch comprise what could be considered one of the better safety rotations in the league on-paper but the game isn't played on paper.  Using James Houston to cover 15-20 yards downfield despite his pass-rushing chops seems a little nonsensical.  I can't tell you what Aaron Glenn is thinking but just like the Carolina game last year, he refuses to make changes when things aren't working.  That is something that needs to change.

[Louis Friend]

I didn’t even notice until now, Marvin Jones did not have one target in the game. Was he out there? 

[LionArkie]

23 minutes ago, Louis Friend said:

I didn’t even notice until now, Marvin Jones did not have one target in the game. Was he out there? 

I saw him on one play.

[Lions017]

To me that was a coaching loss. We have way more talent on defense this year but I feel like Seattle just did a much better job of putting their guys in position to win. We couldn't stop them. They out-schemed and out-coached us. It felt like they had an answer for everything and Campbell got way too overly aggressive. 

[Just Want A Title]

I know Dan Campbell is the Head Coach but a lot of this has to fall on Aaron Glenn.  He didn't have much talent to work with in his first two seasons but that isn't true this year.  Alim McNeil hasn't developed.  Aidan Hutchinson isn't playing at the level that was expected either.  The secondary hasn't shown any ball-hawking skills through two games.  I hope I am wrong but if the Lions defense doesn't start playing better, Aaron Glenn's job could be on the line.

[LionArkie]

26 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said:

I know Dan Campbell is the Head Coach but a lot of this has to fall on Aaron Glenn.  He didn't have much talent to work with in his first two seasons but that isn't true this year.  Alim McNeil hasn't developed.  Aidan Hutchinson isn't playing at the level that was expected either.  The secondary hasn't shown any ball-hawking skills through two games.  I hope I am wrong but if the Lions defense doesn't start playing better, Aaron Glenn's job could be on the line.

Yes, but I think it was about two weeks ago (might have been longer) Campbell made the statement that the assistants coach plan according to what he wants (something to that effect). He was applauded for saying this. If that's the case, we can't now say it is Glenn who is responsible for the scheme when he is doing it with Campbell's stamp of approval and through Campbell. This doesn't mean I think Glenn is good, as time goes on I don't think that's the case. But we also can't let Campbell off the hook either.

With Aubrey Pleasant, there was definite communication issues, and that falls on Pleasant. With scheming issues, I see that as just as much if not more on Campbell than Glenn according to Campbell's own words.

Glenn should get some blame, but I think the Lions share needs to be put on Campbell.

[Sllim Pickens]

22 hours ago, Just Want A Title said:

This was a baffling loss.  Seattle is always well-coached but the Lions had some distinct advantages.  They deserve a lot of credit for tying the game late and pushing it into overtime.  I was surprised that Dan Campbell didn't go for the win in regulation.  Still, he did a good job of getting the tying field goal with no-time left in regulation.  Unfortunately, our defense couldn't get the stops that we needed in overtime.  That said:

Coaching:  For a team that is know for being aggressive, they are having a tough time taking advantage of mismatches or creating them.  Our D-Line should have been able to create a lot of havoc today but were mostly held in check.  For the second week on a row our secondary showed zero-ball skills and a not-so-great pass-rush.   Our offense did a better job of getting down field and put up a decent number of points but they put up 14 points in the first half after putting up only 7 in Week 1.  It seems like this team willing to play things close and try to put things away in the 4th quarter.  They need to be more aggressive early in the game and not "settle" for keeping things close.  

Offense:

- Jared Goff had a pretty good game despite the pick-6.  He was successful on some downfield shots.  Personally, I think that pick-6 is the result of calling too many out-routes and becoming too predictable.  That one lies with Ben Johnson

- I hope David Montgomery's injury isn't serious because he was playing really well.  I am hoping to see that TD play that was called back again soon.  He showed that he is a much more complete RB than he was given credit for in Chicago

- Jahmyr Gibbs had another solid day.  He is know for his speed but he is doing a good job of getting first downs when we need them.  Jared Goff missed him when he was wide open but that happens sometimes.  That drop on the post-route from the slot was a killer but I am surprised the Lions didn't go back to that.  That is another mistake I would put on Ben Johnson.  Jahmyr Gibbs is due to break off a big play or big plays soon  

- I am not sure what to say about the O-Line.  There were times when they flashed dominance.  For the most part, our running game was strong.  Our pass blocking was inconsistent.  There were times when they let the pass rush get to Jared Goff and/or get in his face

- Sam LaPorta had another good game.  He flashed early but kind of disappeared until late in the game  

- ARSB had a really good game.  It was nice to see him get some deeper routes.  He needs a complimentary threat in the worst way right now.   TE, WR, RB:  it doesn't really matter.  The offense needs another receiver that can make defenses pay

- Antoine Green made his first catch on an out-route.  It was good to see him on the field but he has shown that he knows how to work the deep-middle of the field.  As stated above, we need another receiving threat.  I know he is a rookie but his strengths are exactly what our offense needs.  That is another Ben Johnson issue

- Josh Reynolds made some good plays today. He has some of the downfield capabilities we have been missing

- Where is James Mitchell?  He played pretty well last year but has been invisible so far

Defense:

-  It wasn't a mirage:  Kerby Joseph's tackling continues to be much improved over last year

- Alex Anzalone is playing very well so far.  His sack late in the game was a huge play

- Seattle was able to do so damage with the TEs.  I am not sure why that continues to happen

- Our interior D-Lineman are very good in run support but didn't seem to be a factor in the passing game.  There was a little push upfield but they didn't collapse the pocket very often.

- Alim McNeil has shown nothing in his pass-rush through two games.  I don't know if it is the scheme or something else.  He hasn't take the step forward most people expected so far

- As mentioned above, I don't know if it is a scheme-related issue but Aidan Hutchinson isn't getting results in the passing game right now.  He is playing out-of-control and taking himself out of plays.  He made a nice play on the tipped pass late by being in position and not getting too far upfield.  

- Why in the world was James Houston running downfield in coverage?  I don't know what was intended but James Houston has no business being in coverage 15-20 yards down field.  I know they want him to become a complete player but his strength is being a complimentary pass-rusher.  Aaron Glenn probably needs to paly to his strengths.  Considering how badly we are doing at generating a pass-rush James Houston should be doing what he clearly does best

- I don't know what is going on with Jerry Jacobs but he is showing very poor awareness and almost zero ball skills

- Speaking of ball skills:  I don't know if it is the lack of pass-rush or if Aaron Glenn is scheming to keep the ball in front of his DBs to limit long TDs but ball skills have been totally absent from their first two games with their starting CBs and Safeties.  Deflections, tipped balls, INTs-they just aren't happening.  When they do get a chance to make a play they don't.  Kerby Joseph had a pass hit him in the hands and he put it on the ground

Special Teams:

- Kudos to Riley Patterson for making the late FG to tie the game.  It wasn't a super-difficult kick but he deserves credit for making something like that under pressure

Overall, the lions are 1-1 after playing two pretty tough teams.  Andy Reid, Steve Spagnuolo and Pete Carrol have been some of the brightest minds in the game for quite a while.  Still, this game was one that I suspect will be viewed as "the one that got away".  The Lions seem to be thinking a little too much.  Being able to win games in the 4th quarter is great.  Being able to put things away in the first three quarters would be nice to see.   Hopefully we will start seeing that very soon.  It might be a disappointing season if we don't start seeing that.  Thoughts?

I disagree with a lot of this. 

Coaching:

- This was DC's worst game since early last year when he did the same thing against Seattle, Minnesota etc and was over aggressive early and not aggressive enough late.  It was disheartening to see him make the same mistakes he made last year.  I get going for it on 4th downs, but you cant be careless.  Then starting with the drive when we scored the TD in the 4th, we had poor clock management.  We needed 2 scores and we drained the clock to just over 3 minutes.  If they got a 1st down, we would have been screwed.  The fact they didnt, it would have allowed us to run a normal offense like we did the previous drive and try for a TD instead of playing for the tie.  It was horrible clock management and he cant make those mistakes now. 

- Aaron Glenn is on the hot seat again IMO.  He had a great stretch at the end of last year but there are so many ways to exploit this D right now.  He needs to figure it out like he did last year, but hopefully not when its too late again. Why we weren't blitzing all game with two backup tackles is nuts. 

Offense:

- I thought Gibbs was disappointing in this game. He couldnt run the ball and he dropped a key pass that would have likely led to points for us but turned into points for them before the half.  That was huge.  He is electric, but he has to be able to make space and find space without just being a great play design.  He has to fight through tackles and the fact we went to Reynolds instead of him late, is telling about what the staff has seen.  He feels very similar to Swift, and his inconsistency hurts the offense. 

I thought Laporta had a great game.  He didnt make a catch for a while but he was still blocking well and getting open.  And his run after the catch ability shined and his ability to make a catch while being hit is a great asset to have.  He looked like he could be a Kittle type TE and just needs the TDs to go along with the yards, catches and blocking to be that. 

The O line was solid given Sewell had to move to LT and additional injuries on the right side.  Nelson is not the answer at RT long term and he had a few bad plays but given he is a backup, he did pretty well.  No team has a bunch of starting caliber tackles backing up their starters so he is probably one of the better backups in the league. 

Goff was great.  the INT was partially being hit but also him rushing after getting pressured a couple plays in a row.  Once he settled back down, he led us on a TD drive which is what you need to see when a mistake is made.  I wish he had a chance to go for the win in regulation to see his moxy in that situation.  That being said he got us into FG range as he was asked, so good on him. 

Defense:

- I still strongly disagree with your assessment of Hutch.  He has been all over QBs and making them uncomfortable.  He doesn't get home because there is no other pressure so the QBs have had room in the pocket to move and take off.  Thats not on Hutch.  He isnt going to beat the OT on every play, but he sure has made their lives rough, even with them holding him.  He has easily been our best defender on the year. 

- LBs, Anzalone had a few bad plays.  The announcers point one out on a run play and they said Anzalone read it right and Cambpell bought the fake and took off into coverage but they had the players backwards.  If Anzalone read as fast at Campbell, they would have stuffed that run.  Barnes played pretty well from what I saw.  Rodrigo definitely is the worst in coverage.  He isn't awful but leaves enough of an opening to allow on target passes more than he should.  And he is not the best tackler.  You mentioned Houston being downfield in coverage, well he has been covering and is solid at it.  Just because he is better as a pass rusher doesn't mean we have to rush him every play.  Being able to disguise things is important and if they know he is rushing every play, we cant do that. 

- DBs, CJGJ is a great player.  The penalty on the first drive was bad, but I like the swagger and his ability to read plays and come up to make the hit.  Hopefully he can cause some turnovers soon.  Jacobs has been pretty rough, but some of that is they are picking on him more because Sutton has been pretty good in coverage on the other side.  I think some of this is scheme related, some is miscommunication related between the CBs and S's.  Either way we gave up a lot, and last week would have as well if not for some drops.  

- The mobile QB is again our biggest weakness. Geno had tons of space all day but didnt take it until late.  Once he did he had bulk runs again and again.  We have to figure out a zone/spy system or get better play from our DTs to not allow the pocket to have so many outs for the QB.  

Overall it was disappointing.  A lot of good mixed in for sure but given how bad the SEA offense was last week and how bad their defense was last week, we didnt seem to take advantage of it.