2023 Week #14 TNF Steelers 7-5 Host Patriots 2-10

[3rivers]

https://steelersnow.com/steelers-offense-struggling-nobody-knows-cause/

 

the "no clue" is legit. Warren Sharp could fill in the blanks for them. When a teams admits this, they need to remove that coaching staff and of course some of the players that Minkah says aren't putting in the effort

[jebrick]

I said it before so I am repeating myself... The Steelers need to hire a real OC with real NFL plays.  They need to hire a real WR coach to help the WR run a proper route tree.  You could have SF level of talent and still lose because of the idiot plays.  Did anyone see any PA last night?  I sure didn't

[jebrick]

2 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

https://steelersnow.com/steelers-offense-struggling-nobody-knows-cause/

 

the "no clue" is legit. Warren Sharp could fill in the blanks for them. When a teams admits this, they need to remove that coaching staff and of course some of the players that Minkah says aren't putting in the effort

I know EXACTLY why they are struggling.  Their plays are stone age. 

[3rivers]

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

- Let Trubisky start the rest of the year. This team need the infusion of having a high pick badly. 

too late to tank, the best they will get is middle of the draft and trading up will cost them too much , Bush.2

with mitch at QB I doubt we win another game and KP returns vs Ravens in Balt.  So we might very well be 7-10 but we might not get a top 10 pick with that or will we?

the lack of overall intensity on this team is the problem. Balme whoever/whatever, it's real and needs to be reomoved. Problem is, I doubt it's as simple a one or two players and I don't even know if many other coaches could get much out of this group.  

What about our DC, Zappe had a career game? 2 weeks in a row our defence is terrible. 

[3rivers]

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

Random thought: many many coaches and player say on Thursday nights you get mostly base of the offense and defense due to lack of time to implement anything. 

sounds like an excuse. Both teams are like this? Then it's the same for both teams, still have to cover and tackle - if they remember how to do that. Blocking too, lining up properly (chuks)  it never ends. This team is bad, no excuses. It starts at the top and if players can't show up, they need to go as well. 

[jebrick]

5 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

too late to tank, the best they will get is middle of the draft and trading up will cost them too much , Bush.2

with mitch at QB I doubt we win another game and KP returns vs Ravens in Balt.  So we might very well be 7-10 but we might not get a top 10 pick with that or will we?

the lack of overall intensity on this team is the problem. Balme whoever/whatever, it's real and needs to be reomoved. Problem is, I doubt it's as simple a one or two players and I don't even know if many other coaches could get much out of this group.  

What about our DC, Zappe had a career game? 2 weeks in a row our defence is terrible. 

The Pats attacked the Steeler weak point, the ILB.  Over and over again.  Odd that some teams can adjust their plans to attack an opponents weakness.

 

Steelers did not switch to man coverage until the 2nd half.  their zone was eaten up over and over and over.

Edited December 8, 2023 by jebrick

[warfelg]

Woah. Mark Madden said on twitter that Art SR was a bad owner and Dan was worse, so this is what Steelers fans deserve. 

[Dcash4]

30 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I get what your going for here but that’s what you would get if you needed to discipline someone for play like has been floated about by some. 

I don't view this as the same. I'm the person saying people need to be disciplined for play. But if you ARE playing those people, they are not being disciplined. If you are available to play, play. This team is getting way to cute with personnel groupings. They think it's helping to put the run blocking people on the field for running, but it does the opposite. 

Ain't no one scared of Allen Robinson and Calvin Austin can't stretch the field when you have him going horizontal because you need him in jet motion. Those little things matter so much. Just put your best players on the field and go. 

21 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I think it’s a .500 team so we’re not that far apart on it. 

Difference being, you seem to think Tomlin drags them to it. I do not. 

21 minutes ago, warfelg said:

What’s interesting is that’s rarely said about Tomlin directly. Also the former players for the most part is JAGs. Not 100% discounting their word but when it’s guys that bounce around a ton talking I put less stock in it than if someone like Troy were to come out and say it.

I wouldn't agree with the bold. Troy played for one organization. He only knows the Steelers. Those guys might not be studs but there were exposed to multiple working environments. 

You would need to take Troys words with a grain of salt when talking about process in comparison to others. He was ever exposed to anyone else. Cowher and Tomlin, but always with LeBeau. Not a lot to compare his experience too. 

22 minutes ago, warfelg said:

You’ve kinda mentioned before about offensively guys needing to be schemed to be open, defensively needing scheme to create sacks, scheme at the lines. I think if you have talented enough guys you don’t need to worry about it much. I think that’s what makes SF/Miami such offensive juggernauts. They got good scheming coaches, but those players are also guys who will win matchups even in a scheme that isn’t perfect. 

It's difference between being good enough or being great. Watching SF and Miami match scheme and talent is why they are so high end, but either the talent or the scheme would have varying levels of success on their own. 

Health aside, this defense for the Steelers has always been good. But our defensive coaches are mid. They are not great, they are also not bad. They are adults who have elite and top end guys who make the wheels turn. I would like they to find a middle ground that turns good into great. Like TJ, Minkah, Cam, Porter, and Highsmith with Big Lou or McDonald would be a high end unit matching scheme to talent. 

You need both in this league to thrive. We get none on offense and meh on defense. IMO, there's coaches out there that could get more out of both units. 

[warfelg]

6 minutes ago, jebrick said:

The Pats attacked the Steeler weak point, the ILB.  Over and over again.  Odd that some teams can adjust their plans to attack an opponents weakness.

 

Steelers did not switch to man coverage until the 2nd half.  their zone was eaten up over and over and over.

The pats didn’t adjust to the weakness. They’ve been a 2-TE team all year. 

[3rivers]

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

Honest question. Since Bens injury, how would you rate the overturn of the roster? 

It appears that Khan tired, but colbert wasn't good the last few years.  I still think a legit OC with this team would help and the defence still needs work too.  Way too many things went wrong here, roster  is included . Cole for example - they could have had a C in the mid rounds in the draft since there were lots of them . The year the draft was deep at C, this team passes .

Cole might be a vocal leader , but when you can't snap or block and your teammates know this,  his words mean nothing and is more of an act.   Players talking a bit down about an opponent before a game to the media is also  not good.  Lots wrong here, attitude with some of the roster, and neglect to certain areas. 

I still think coaching is the biggest problem.  Coaches will/should  shake up the lineup if players aren't playing 'to the standard' , and put players in their place if they are whining to the media or hinting such. 

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

https://x.com/steelersdepot/status/1733106196738130007?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA
 

Minkah:

”Dudes think just because they are wearing Black and Gold that their gonna make plays.”

let Minkah weed out the locker room,  but then the coaches will be someone in the FO  call

3 hours ago, VigilantZombie said:

Idk if we can even beat Cincy a 2nd time. I really don't believe Tomlin has the ability to create magic to a .500+ record this season.

This should be his last season as our HC, it won't be, but it should be.

cinci won vs jags.  Mr.524 won't have a winning season if he keeps this roster as is.  Mitch's greatest asset is mobility, they need to design with that in mind.  I'm not a fan of his, but at least work to his strengths.   Mason  would be  better  especially if he can provide a spark, which this team apparently needs for some reason

If Mr.524 loses out, he might be trade bait and considering probably 6 openings after black monday, he could be part of a bidding war 

2 hours ago, VigilantZombie said:

Well, let's do a scale of 1-10. 

I'd give it a 2.

I think we have added talent in a couple of areas (individual talent). But overall I think things have either gotten worse or stayed the same. 

I would rate it higher but not sure where, maybe 5 or 6. I like  addition of Semo and Daniels as well as Jones,  but cole isn't a starter and the C is the leader of the OL .  They tried to address ILB, got a legit cover corner finally,  but also wasted  players here too (Dotson, Witherspoon are both playing good) . Pickens is  elite talent and being wasted. 

The facts are, the OC's are the worst and thats the main problem as it's what's causes the team to lose it's energy. Then the rest caps that off (DC, injuries, HC) 

 

 

[3rivers]

33 minutes ago, jebrick said:

I know EXACTLY why they are struggling.  Their plays are stone age. 

but they don't know why  Then it's time to remove them - they are useless 

 

27 minutes ago, jebrick said:

The Pats attacked the Steeler weak point, the ILB.  Over and over again.  Odd that some teams can adjust their plans to attack an opponents weakness.

 

Steelers did not switch to man coverage until the 2nd half.  their zone was eaten up over and over and over.

thats what tomlin does vs BB, lets them pick away at the zones.  Only 1 time they played press man and won that game, the rest were zones mostly and beat downs. Thats tomlin again.  

 

23 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Woah. Mark Madden said on twitter that Art SR was a bad owner and Dan was worse, so this is what Steelers fans deserve. 

maybe he is right and a reason Mr.524  has kept  his job over the years.

Any fan that pays to watch this team in the cold/rain  does deserve this. They should stop going to the games .  How can someone pay those prices to sit in the elements to watch this is beyond me. It's  insanity to try the same thing over and over and expect different results. The steelers offence with canada and sullivan under tomlin  

[warfelg]

5 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

I wouldn't agree with the bold. Troy played for one organization. He only knows the Steelers. Those guys might not be studs but there were exposed to multiple working environments. 

You would need to take Troys words with a grain of salt when talking about process in comparison to others. He was ever exposed to anyone else. Cowher and Tomlin, but always with LeBeau. Not a lot to compare his experience too. 

So then they might be talking to what they prefer working wise. I just frankly don’t care about JAGs complaints a ton. I’d need to listen to more stuff but Sternberger he complained about stuff in GB too. Sometimes starter JAGs just try to blame everything else for not being better. 
 

 

25 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

It's difference between being good enough or being great. Watching SF and Miami match scheme and talent is why they are so high end, but either the talent or the scheme would have varying levels of success on their own. 

 

Yes - that’s what I was saying. It’s the combination of talent and coaching there. 

26 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Health aside, this defense for the Steelers has always been good. But our defensive coaches are mid. They are not great, they are also not bad. They are adults who have elite and top end guys who make the wheels turn. I would like they to find a middle ground that turns good into great. Like TJ, Minkah, Cam, Porter, and Highsmith with Big Lou or McDonald would be a high end unit matching scheme to talent. 

 

I mean - statistically this is a very good defense. Hell last week you even said it yourself, only so much you can do at ILB6. I think when you are talking about taking player like that it’s more a matter of does this guy fit what you need. 

Leal is my perfect example right now. Is he a bad player? No. Is he a good player? No. Why do we struggle to elevate him? He’s a base 4-3 end that doesn’t have a position in our defense. On the flip side is he good enough to write entire defensive plays around to change schematically here and there what you do? I don’t believe so. 

30 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

You need both in this league to thrive. We get none on offense and meh on defense. IMO, there's coaches out there that could get more out of both units. 

I don’t disagree at all. They are also bigger coaching staffs too. They pay highly to assistants. Do you have confidence in the franchise (not just Tomlin but everyone) to move to that?

[warfelg]

23 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

It appears that Khan tired

It’s been one offseason. 

[warfelg]

My major thing is we’re more than just a coaching change away. Look at comments the last few weeks about how some guys aren’t in their playbook, some thinking splash plays just happen, players putting themselves above team. 

Those aren’t things coaches can change. You can’t suddenly make guys turn around those attitudes. Coaching ain’t Ted Lasso out there. Players that don’t study, likely won’t even if you spend all the time in the world with them as coaches. 

This is why I believe that we’re closer to the talent of a .500 team than a playoff. If WRs aren’t going to study the playbook enough to know options, they are going to keep making those mistakes no matter how talented they are. If ILBs are going to keep biting on the same PAs/Levels concepts, it’s going to keep happening no matter what. 

Unless the player cares enough to want to change, no level of coaching will change them. 

[warfelg]

Honest question:

If the coaching staff were to be cleaned house of - do yup honestly feel the new HC, Khan, and Weidl would be given enough free reign to hire as big of a staff, add departments, and pay them appropriately? What leads you to believe this?