Current Josh Allen Or Prime Philip Rivers?

[CP3MVP]

Who would you say is a better player 

[bigbadbuff]

Tbqh it’s Allen and it isn’t close

[bigbadbuff]

Rivers career high TD’s… 34

 

Allen has had more than that every year since year 3.

If you want to use the “passing era” argument against Allen then how did Rivers have more interceptions Rivers had six seasons of 15+ picks where as Allen has had 1 (about to be 2 in all likelihood)

And if we include Rushing stats obviously it favors Allen immensely.

 

[nagahide13]

2013 Rivers > 2023 Allen.

If we're going by career or whether I'd take Josh Allen over a prime Rivers entering next season, things would be different. I'd take Allen in almost any scenario except the OPs. Josh isn't broken whatsoever but something isn't right this year.

Edited December 7, 2023 by nagahide13

[bigbadbuff]

7 minutes ago, nagahide13 said:

2013 Rivers > 2023 Allen.

If we're going by career or whether I'd take Josh Allen over a prime Rivers entering next season, things would be different. I'd take Allen in almost any scenario except the OPs. Josh isn't broken whatsoever but something isn't right this year.

Yeah on pace for almost 5k yards and 50 tds, but bc he’s gonna throw 16 picks it ain’t right. This might be his best season 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

I think Allen on those Chargers teams would be hilariously OP.

Antonio Gates > Keenan Allen > LaDanian Tomlinson > Vincent Brown > Malcolm Floyd

Those teams had some STACKED talent.

[nagahide13]

11 minutes ago, bigbadbuff said:

Yeah on pace for almost 5k yards and 50 tds, but bc he’s gonna throw 16 picks it ain’t right. This might be his best season 

He isn't really on pace for 50 TDs and this isn't his best season by any metric. Hell of a player. Elite. Better career than Rivers... But he's definitely not at his best this year.

It's not a lot, but passing stats are also inflated a bit since then. Those were the days of 5k yards being astonishing.

Edited December 7, 2023 by nagahide13

[INbengalfan]

Allen.  Girlfriend issues may be tough, but raising a dozen kids has to be infinitely more distracting off the field, leading to exhaustion-based poor decisions on the field.

[bigbadbuff]

32 minutes ago, nagahide13 said:

He isn't really on pace for 50 TDs and this isn't his best season by any metric. Hell of a player. Elite. Better career than Rivers... But he's definitely not at his best this year.

It's not a lot, but passing stats are also inflated a bit since then. Those were the days of 5k yards being astonishing.

So then why was Rivers throwing 15-20’picks per year? He must’ve been bad. And he’s on pace for like 46 sorry if we include rushing 

[nagahide13]

8 hours ago, bigbadbuff said:

So then why was Rivers throwing 15-20’picks per year? He must’ve been bad. And he’s on pace for like 46 sorry if we include rushing 

Yes, Rivers threw a ton of picks in a bunch of years. But OP did not ask about career. He asked about Rivers absolute best vs. current Josh Allen.

Josh Allen currently has 33 TDs and 16 turnovers. I don't know why were claiming "on pace for" with a 5-10% variance. If he's on pace for 50 TDs hes also on pace for 24 turnovers.

He's great. He's gonna make the HOF no problem. But this has not been his best year by any standard and he is not performing up to the level we know he can. And has. It's not really a knock to say that a different HOF QB had one season better than a high-mid season of Allen's standards.

And that isn't even to say Allen has been performing poorly this year. He's still great. He's just not "Josh Allen" great.

I'm wondering if the Title saying "prime rivers" while the actual OP just says "who is better" is causing this. Obviously Allen is better than Rivers. Rivers had one year that was better than current JA. That's it.

Edited December 8, 2023 by nagahide13

[Soko]

17 hours ago, bigbadbuff said:

Rivers career high TD’s… 34

 

Allen has had more than that every year since year 3.

If you want to use the “passing era” argument against Allen then how did Rivers have more interceptions Rivers had six seasons of 15+ picks where as Allen has had 1 (about to be 2 in all likelihood)

And if we include Rushing stats obviously it favors Allen immensely.

The thread is prime Rivers, though.

Which is still a little vague, is that like single season or is it a few year stretch? Can be taken a few different ways. But Rivers in his best season or two, isn’t turning it over as much as Allen and has higher TD%, so the passing era adjustment is there. Statistically, Rivers has the edge but this conversation is loaded in that fashion. 

[AkronsWitness]

22 minutes ago, Soko said:

The thread is prime Rivers, though.

Which is still a little vague, is that like single season or is it a few year stretch? Can be taken a few different ways. But Rivers in his best season or two, isn’t turning it over as much as Allen and has higher TD%, so the passing era adjustment is there. Statistically, Rivers has the edge but this conversation is loaded in that fashion. 

Yeah but some things are bigger than just RS stats that defines Rivers career as a whole and how he could never get it done in big games while always prone to having a complete meltdown at some point in the playoffs

Rivers couldnt get it done in the playoffs despite having loaded roster after loaded rosters to play with. Right now I have a little bit more faith in Josh Allen mostly from what we've seen thus far when the games really matter

Playoff stats:

• Rivers: 5-7 | 59% Comp | 16/10 TD.INT | 85 RTG 
• Allen: 4-4 | 64% Comp | 17/4 TD.INT | 100 RTG

 

Also, Rivers put up those numbers with 2 HOFers (LT.Gates) and other Pro Bowlers (Keenan.Jackson). Allen has Diggs and Diggs alone lol

Edited December 8, 2023 by AkronsWitness

[bigbadbuff]

 

 

[Soko]

1 hour ago, AkronsWitness said:

Yeah but some things are bigger than just RS stats that defines Rivers career as a whole and how he could never get it done in big games while always prone to having a complete meltdown at some point in the playoffs

Rivers couldnt get it done in the playoffs despite having loaded roster after loaded rosters to play with. Right now I have a little bit more faith in Josh Allen mostly from what we've seen thus far when the games really matter

Playoff stats:

• Rivers: 5-7 | 59% Comp | 16/10 TD.INT | 85 RTG 
• Allen: 4-4 | 64% Comp | 17/4 TD.INT | 100 RTG

 

Also, Rivers put up those numbers with 2 HOFers (LT.Gates) and other Pro Bowlers (Keenan.Jackson). Allen has Diggs and Diggs alone lol

I mean, but isn’t bringing up a bunch of those disappointing postseason years largely irrelevant, because we’re talking about Rivers in his prime? Again, the question doesn’t really specify whether it’s Rivers in his best season or just the prime of his career. Same with Allen - if we’re talking about Allen “right now”, then stuff like his postseason magic in the 2021 becomes, debatably, off the table. FWIW, I realize Rivers has largely been disappointing in the postseason whether we make that specification or not, but I think it’s still a distinction that makes a difference.

I’m not really leaning either way in either direction on this one. They’re similar caliber players but Rivers was probably a little less streaky and obviously brought nothing to the table in terms of mobility.

[SodeeWater_Cheezburger]

Josh Allen - by a fairly good margin, IMO.