2018 Draft Thread I

[big9erfan]

Hey Oldie. I think of you as being an expert on the LSU guys. What do you think of Will Clapp. Obviously we could use a C/G and if we don't take one higher I'm wondering if he'd be a good 4th round target.

[Uncle_Rico]

Just getting into watching prospects so I'll start throwing out some initial thoughts:

- Vita Vea is an absolute terror. If he's around by our pick I would love to get him. I don't care if it's not as big of a need.

- Poor WR class. Christian Kirk seems underappreciated to me. Really explosive player and good route runner. Also like DJ Moore.

- Shaquem Griffin is awesome. His tape is phenomenal. His nickname should be "Handful"

- Really like Ronald Jones, Kerryon Johnson, and Martez Carter at RB. Love the explosiveness of Jones and Carter. I'm a big fan of RB's who are a crease away from a 60 yard TD. Kerryon just looks great to me. LeVeon-esque for sure. 

- Not a fan of John Kelly

- Quenton Nelson is obviously great

- Big fan of Harold Landry. That edge bend is an elite skill. I like guys with elite skills

 

All just initial thoughts that will change throughout the process. The combine will help clarify some things

[big9erfan]

1 hour ago, Uncle_Rico said:

Just getting into watching prospects so I'll start throwing out some initial thoughts:

- Vita Vea is an absolute terror. If he's around by our pick I would love to get him. I don't care if it's not as big of a need.

- Poor WR class. Christian Kirk seems underappreciated to me. Really explosive player and good route runner. Also like DJ Moore.

- Shaquem Griffin is awesome. His tape is phenomenal. His nickname should be "Handful"

- Really like Ronald Jones, Kerryon Johnson, and Martez Carter at RB. Love the explosiveness of Jones and Carter. I'm a big fan of RB's who are a crease away from a 60 yard TD. Kerryon just looks great to me. LeVeon-esque for sure. 

- Not a fan of John Kelly

- Quenton Nelson is obviously great

- Big fan of Harold Landry. That edge bend is an elite skill. I like guys with elite skills

 

All just initial thoughts that will change throughout the process. The combine will help clarify some things

This is exactly what I said a couple days ago.  Jones goes almost completely un-mentioned here but he could turn out to be one of the best RBs out of what appears to be a stron RB class.Slight worries for me about his size and therefore his durability, but not about what he can do on the field.

[oldman9er]

2 hours ago, big9erfan said:

Hey Oldie. I think of you as being an expert on the LSU guys. What do you think of Will Clapp. Obviously we could use a C/G and if we don't take one higher I'm wondering if he'd be a good 4th round target.

I wouldn't consider me an expert on much of anything, but my answer would be that Clapp was about the only OL that I actually liked last season. He played some LG and RG prior to last season, but stuck it out at C all of last year, IIRC. He's got quick enough feet for the pull game, and can get into the second level well enough. More of a technician with a so-so anchor versus being a mauler, but typically gets the job done. 

Clapp probably doesn't get much draft love right now due to the whole LSU offense/OL not being terribly respected. A lot of inexperienced guys trying to work together. 4th rd or even 3rd feels right, but IOL tend to drop lower than I think every year. 

[big9erfan]

I know the possibility of trading our pick with Buffalo for their two first rounders is probably pure fantasy.  But if we did would anyone here be interested in Rashaan Evans? Is it possible he might be as good as Roquan Smith and that extra pick could land us a good CB or a good o-line prospect, or maybe even a shot at a pass rusher?

[Forge]

8 minutes ago, big9erfan said:

I know the possibility of trading our pick with Buffalo for their two first rounders is probably pure fantasy.  But if we did would anyone here be interested in Rashaan Evans? Is it possible he might be as good as Roquan Smith and that extra pick could land us a good CB or a good o-line prospect, or maybe even a shot at a pass rusher?

I really like Evans and would totally be in favor of him in the 20's. 

I do think the prospect of getting both of their firsts is unlikely. Based on the 'new chart' (which not all teams go by, but some of them do, I believe), the number #10 would basically even out to their second first rounder, their second second rounder, and like #157 

[big9erfan]

14 hours ago, Forge said:

I really like Evans and would totally be in favor of him in the 20's. 

I do think the prospect of getting both of their firsts is unlikely. Based on the 'new chart' (which not all teams go by, but some of them do, I believe), the number #10 would basically even out to their second first rounder, their second second rounder, and like #157 

Yeah trade charts are useful but just general guidlines. I think it depends on who a team is moving up for.  There's always a premium for QBs and desperate teams often "overpay" for one. Buffalo might fall into the category of "desperate", the problem is that therre are teams ahead of us that might do the trade, or they know we're not taking a QB so they could work the deal with whoever is picking behind us.

[Forge]

1 minute ago, big9erfan said:

Yeah trade charts are useful but just general guidlines. I think it depends on who a team is moving up for.  There's always a premium for QBs and desperate teams often "overpay" for one. Buffalo might fall into the category of "desperate", the problem is that therre are teams ahead of us that might do the trade, or they know we're not taking a QB so they could work the deal with whoever is picking behind us.

Definitely..no trade chart in the world would have told Chicago that last year's trade was good value for them, but we still got that haul anyway lol. 

[rudyZ]

8 minutes ago, big9erfan said:

Yeah trade charts are useful but just general guidlines. I think it depends on who a team is moving up for.  There's always a premium for QBs and desperate teams often "overpay" for one. Buffalo might fall into the category of "desperate", the problem is that therre are teams ahead of us that might do the trade, or they know we're not taking a QB so they could work the deal with whoever is picking behind us.

Maybe we could even out the value by offering something back. If you look at #9/10 for their two first rounders, it doesn't work, but #9/10 + something might work. #9 + Arik Armstead for their two firsts? 

[Forge]

9 minutes ago, rudyZ said:

Maybe we could even out the value by offering something back. If you look at #9/10 for their two first rounders, it doesn't work, but #9/10 + something might work. #9 + Arik Armstead for their two firsts? 

Honestly, I don't hate the idea of getting one of their firsts and both of their seconds. That would be enough for me. At 21 or 22 or whatever their pick is, we could easily land Isaiah Wynn, who is a perfect match for this offensive line scheme and my second favorite guard behind Nelson. We could land Evans, who doesn't have the upside of Edmunds, but I think will be a very good linebacker at the next level. We could take a more palatable risk on a guy like Key or *gulp* Landry. At this point, I'd start to give consideration to a guy like Guice or one of the receivers. We may even still be able to nab a really good corner - I could see a third corner still being there at this point. It may not be Ward, but he could fall because of his size. Jackson could fall this far based on one year of production and a little stiffness and scheme specificity. Mike Hughes is probably going to go around this point. 

Then you book end that with three picks in the 50's when you include our own, and I think that's a lot of pretty solid talent being added. A receiver like Brown, Tate, Kirk...any of them could be available at that point. Duke Ejiofor, Hubbard / Lewis from OSU, Oro...I haven't even discounted the fact that Key or Landry could still be available here to be perfectly honest. A number of really good running backs are going to be available at this point. 

The truth is, I don't love this draft at the top. Nelson and Barkley are both phenomenal talents in any draft, but I think the top end talent in this draft as a whole is a little drab. Davenport and Edmunds have the potential to be absolute studs, but they are both raw, so you're banking on them meeting that potential, so I don't hate the idea of having 4 picks between 20-60 (with Chicago's and our own third in the next 15 picks) as opposed to 1 pick in the top 10, 1 pick in the 50's, and then 2 in the 70s. 

[big9erfan]

This article explains some of what I was trying to say about Barkley a few weeks ago. At least I'm not the only one with some reservations about him

https://nflspinzone.com/2018/02/12/cleveland-browns-saquon-barkley-dont-draft-2018/

[oldman9er]

16 hours ago, big9erfan said:

This article explains some of what I was trying to say about Barkley a few weeks ago. At least I'm not the only one with some reservations about him

https://nflspinzone.com/2018/02/12/cleveland-browns-saquon-barkley-dont-draft-2018/

Thought it was a worthwhile read.. though I couldn't help but feel the author had some "hater" in him, regardless. Seems the point of his article foremost was that Barkley's flaws.. however minor compared to his strengths.. are just not the perfect fit for what the Browns should be looking for in the top 5. 

I did smirk at this:

Quote

Now, enter the analytics. When it comes to production metrics, Barkley is no better than Derrius Guice out of LSU. Both project to be great, but not all-world backs. And Guice, younger, is going to test really well in his own right. He may not be as impressive as Barkley, but he’s going to be good.

[rudyZ]

1 hour ago, oldman9er said:

Thought it was a worthwhile read.. though I couldn't help but feel the author had some "hater" in him, regardless. Seems the point of his article foremost was that Barkley's flaws.. however minor compared to his strengths.. are just not the perfect fit for what the Browns should be looking for in the top 5. 

I did smirk at this:

I feel like the nitpicking on Barkley is similar to the nitpicking I and others were doing on Trubisky, last year. Sometimes, you just don't want a prospect at a certain spot, for me it was Trubisky at #2, and you just look for every possible reasons why it would be a bad idea to take said guy at said spot. The same person will often counter their post by saying: "But I would love X a few spots later!"

Barkley is a great prospect, but no prospect is without his flaws. Can anyone think of a perfect prospect who had a perfect career, and is now having a perfect post-football career, is an amazing lover, great father, incorruptible congressman and future president of the world? Off the top of my head, I can't. But to fair, I didn't do the research. y2! Get to work!

[big9erfan]

1 hour ago, oldman9er said:

Thought it was a worthwhile read.. though I couldn't help but feel the author had some "hater" in him, regardless. Seems the point of his article foremost was that Barkley's flaws.. however minor compared to his strengths.. are just not the perfect fit for what the Browns should be looking for in the top 5. 

I did smirk at this:

Yeah.  I don't whether he thinks Guice is flat out better, or just that he's a muich better value. Either way I knew you'd like that

[oldman9er]

30 minutes ago, big9erfan said:

Yeah.  I don't whether he thinks Guice is flat out better, or just that he's a muich better value. Either way I knew you'd like that

Hehehe

The thing with Guice for me.. is that he reminds me of Carlos Hyde in 2 ways.

He's an angry, tough runner... and he spends multiple times per season being less than 100%. Guice will play through pain though.. and even at.. say 70%.. he's still plenty effective. 

I guess what I'm saying is, the talent is very much there.. but I can see a GM being a bit hesitant in throwing a top 10 pick at him.