Steelers 2024 NFL Draft Prospects

[warfelg]

16 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

Sedrick Van Pran is off my draft board. The more film I watched I noticed him missing blocks, whiffing against blitzers, being put on his ***, slipping off blocks, not getting any push or movement, etc..., If he played OT, all these flaws would be easily visible but playing IOL, he gets plenty of help from his Guards. So disappointing how bad his film is.

Amarius Mims had the same surgery as Kenny Pickett (tight-rope ankle surgery). That and constantly aggravating it, caused Mims to miss so much playtime last season. It was really hard to get a good feel for his game. Some he looked amazing while other times he looked like Chuks Okorafor. Due to the value of that position, Mims is too much of an unknown for me so I'm out on him too.

Charles Turner is very athletic. That is his best attribute. See Van Pran analysis.

The Georgia line as a whole was a mess this year TBH.  Between injuries and shuffling around of guys I don't think anyone felt settled.  Some of SVP's missed blocks and whiffing blitzers looked like he was covering for others too much.  I don't think he got as much help from guards as you think.

18 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

Zach Frazier is one of the few Centers that I saw get pancaked by a defender. Penn ST game and the DT locked his arms out and perfectly pancaked Frazier. Too many plays where Frazier is chasing his blocks. He is NOT athletic at all! He looks and plays small. Maybe I don't know what to look for in an OL but I'm out on Frazier. 

Snap out quickly and accurately, hands flash up quickly.  Makes good adjustments at the line.  Altheticism is his known issue.  If he had half of SVP's athletic ability Frazier would be C1 in this draft.

OL is tough to scout.  Schwartz once said in an analysis that you got to watch the individuals feet and hands, shoulder and hip relationship, outside foot kick, can they stay square, what's the fire off the ball like in run downs, do they keep hips and shoulders low, do they keep ahold of their man when they latch on.  Sometimes some get caught up in the missed blocks, but without knowing what the protection call is it's hard to pin that on a single guy.

[armsteeld]

27 minutes ago, warfelg said:

The Georgia line as a whole was a mess this year TBH.  Between injuries and shuffling around of guys I don't think anyone felt settled.  Some of SVP's missed blocks and whiffing blitzers looked like he was covering for others too much.  I don't think he got as much help from guards as you think.

Snap out quickly and accurately, hands flash up quickly.  Makes good adjustments at the line.  Altheticism is his known issue.  If he had half of SVP's athletic ability Frazier would be C1 in this draft.

OL is tough to scout.  Schwartz once said in an analysis that you got to watch the individuals feet and hands, shoulder and hip relationship, outside foot kick, can they stay square, what's the fire off the ball like in run downs, do they keep hips and shoulders low, do they keep ahold of their man when they latch on.  Sometimes some get caught up in the missed blocks, but without knowing what the protection call is it's hard to pin that on a single guy.

Agreed about the OL scouting areas to watch. I don't focus or guess the assignments of players; I'm all about their body movements and how they handle the player they're blocking, tackling, covering, etc... Even the NFL vets guess coverages and assignments because all teams will make minor adjustments based on their schemes, players, defenses they're facing, etc...

You can go back to '22 tape and see the same flaws with Van Pran. As an evaluator sometimes their are player that I project too much and that makes me ignore their flaws. It's a work in progress to consistently paint with a blank canvas.

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, armsteeld said:

Agreed about the OL scouting areas to watch. I don't focus or guess the assignments of players; I'm all about their body movements and how they handle the player they're blocking, tackling, covering, etc... Even the NFL vets guess coverages and assignments because all teams will make minor adjustments based on their schemes, players, defenses they're facing, etc...

You can go back to '22 tape and see the same flaws with Van Pran. As an evaluator sometimes their are player that I project too much and that makes me ignore their flaws. It's a work in progress to consistently paint with a blank canvas.

I hear you.  That's why I try to go with what's some of their data say (measurables and even now some limited access to GPS data), what's their flaws, then is it fixable.

I believe that SVP's flaws are fixable, and he's good at the stuff you would want someone coming in to be good at coming into the league.  I think SVP is also the great example of the microscope being on a guy for so long.  Not saying he should still be C1 in this draft but more that all analysis has swung to the negative.  Long story short, I had an interview for a job in football, and basically the teams analysis of SVP hasn't swung as negative as public perception is right now, but it was never as high as public perception was.  I would expect mid 2 through high 3rd for him.

JPJ making his meteoric rise through the end of the season has also caused problems for SVP as it's been a while since anyone has seen SVP show what he's capable of.  If SVP did the Senior Bowl he would still be in the convo for high-2.

I think Georgia's issue in 2023 that I saw which exposed some of the SVP issues that were better covered in 2022, and shouldn't be as exposed in the NFL, is that they G's helped the OT's much more in 2023.  SVP was left on as island much much more this year than before.  As other coaches started to catch on they would run stunts with an A-gap blitz catching the flaw in Georgia's scheme.  The reality is that Jones's replacement wasn't good (talk about rough tape) and Mim's being out as much as he was along with the ups and downs make it tough to put the OT's on an island.  

What I like about SVP is his snaps are fast and on point.  He explodes out of the stance well.  He moves well and hits moving targets for a big guy.  He keeps good balance of shoulders on toes, butt back.  He calls good protections up front.  He does tend to look for work when up front.  

What I don't like is he can get into playing pattycake with defenders at times.  Lets defenders get into his frame too often because he gets lazy with his hands.  In the pass game he relies too much on angles and "tricking" DT's into doing what he wants.

IMO his flaws are fixable.  Put him in a stretch zone run scheme where he can flow with the OL and work to the second level (hey the Arthur Smith run game!) a la Maurkice Pouncey.  In the pass game you need to give him quick help with the NT is on the 0T, but otherwise put him in a help block position regularly and he'll be successful.  Work through his flaws early with that being the idea of usage and you can grow a good center.

[rlon]

IMO his flaws are fixable.  Put him in a stretch zone run scheme where he can flow with the OL and work to the second level (hey the Arthur Smith run game!) a la Maurkice Pouncey.  In the pass game you need to give him quick help with the NT is on the 0T, but otherwise put him in a help block position regularly and he'll be successful.  Work through his flaws early with that being the idea of usage and you can grow a good center.Vvvvvvvv

 

Interesting, I wish I would have seen this thread before posting a new topic. Growing a center doesn’t sound good to me, as it’s not like we have an aging Pouncey to replace. We have an inadequate Cole. Reading the strong comments like in this thread just makes me have JPJ tunnel vision. Will he even make it to 20 seems to be the question…

[armsteeld]

7 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I hear you.  That's why I try to go with what's some of their data say (measurables and even now some limited access to GPS data), what's their flaws, then is it fixable.

I believe that SVP's flaws are fixable, and he's good at the stuff you would want someone coming in to be good at coming into the league.  I think SVP is also the great example of the microscope being on a guy for so long.  Not saying he should still be C1 in this draft but more that all analysis has swung to the negative.  Long story short, I had an interview for a job in football, and basically the teams analysis of SVP hasn't swung as negative as public perception is right now, but it was never as high as public perception was.  I would expect mid 2 through high 3rd for him.

JPJ making his meteoric rise through the end of the season has also caused problems for SVP as it's been a while since anyone has seen SVP show what he's capable of.  If SVP did the Senior Bowl he would still be in the convo for high-2.

I think Georgia's issue in 2023 that I saw which exposed some of the SVP issues that were better covered in 2022, and shouldn't be as exposed in the NFL, is that they G's helped the OT's much more in 2023.  SVP was left on as island much much more this year than before.  As other coaches started to catch on they would run stunts with an A-gap blitz catching the flaw in Georgia's scheme.  The reality is that Jones's replacement wasn't good (talk about rough tape) and Mim's being out as much as he was along with the ups and downs make it tough to put the OT's on an island.  

What I like about SVP is his snaps are fast and on point.  He explodes out of the stance well.  He moves well and hits moving targets for a big guy.  He keeps good balance of shoulders on toes, butt back.  He calls good protections up front.  He does tend to look for work when up front.  

What I don't like is he can get into playing pattycake with defenders at times.  Lets defenders get into his frame too often because he gets lazy with his hands.  In the pass game he relies too much on angles and "tricking" DT's into doing what he wants.

IMO his flaws are fixable.  Put him in a stretch zone run scheme where he can flow with the OL and work to the second level (hey the Arthur Smith run game!) a la Maurkice Pouncey.  In the pass game you need to give him quick help with the NT is on the 0T, but otherwise put him in a help block position regularly and he'll be successful.  Work through his flaws early with that being the idea of usage and you can grow a good center.

I can't and won't speak on scheme specifics because I don't know how the OL instructed his guys. What I see is SVP going after guys and missing. I see him sliding off blocks. The amount of times I see him on the ground is alarming. An OL can't block off his back. Yes he moves well in space but he has issues getting to the LBs too much for my liking. 

Yes all prospects need to be coached up when they hit the NFL. Yes SVP is athletic. I'm looking short to long when I look at these players. SVP has too many issues for me to take him before day 3. As of now, Jackson Powers-Johnson is the only Center I'd take in the first 2 days of the draft. If I miss on JPJ, then I'm not selecting a Center until day 3.

[armsteeld]

8 minutes ago, rlon said:

IMO his flaws are fixable.  Put him in a stretch zone run scheme where he can flow with the OL and work to the second level (hey the Arthur Smith run game!) a la Maurkice Pouncey.  In the pass game you need to give him quick help with the NT is on the 0T, but otherwise put him in a help block position regularly and he'll be successful.  Work through his flaws early with that being the idea of usage and you can grow a good center.Vvvvvvvv

 

Interesting, I wish I would have seen this thread before posting a new topic. Growing a center doesn’t sound good to me, as it’s not like we have an aging Pouncey to replace. We have an inadequate Cole. Reading the strong comments like in this thread just makes me have JPJ tunnel vision. Will he even make it to 20 seems to be the question…

I have been up since 6 AM watching IOL and a couple OTs. JPJ and Latham are wet dream picks for the Steelers. Another guy I'm liking is Jordan Morgan. He is very similar to Broderick Jones.

[rlon]

2 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

I have been up since 6 AM watching IOL and a couple OTs. JPJ and Latham are wet dream picks for the Steelers. Another guy I'm liking is Jordan Morgan. He is very similar to Broderick Jones.

Odds of Morgan slipping to us in round 2? Not going to be good, IMO, the more people see of him…looks like Paul is the round 2 option….Yale or Notre Dame RT considerations in round 3…Jones in the 4th maybe. The other option is to draft a developmental, high ceiling left tackle skill set type and just play him behind Moore. That’s not optimal though.

[jebrick]

If they are going to move to more of  a wide-zone scheme then JPJ must be their 1st round choice.  I say that because while this center class is deep in talent, the talent is not for moving. 

I would love Frazier he is not JPJ's level of athleticism.  

If you have Van Pran as Center#3 then that is truly your limit on who you select ( if moving to a wide-zone). Limmer, Nuget, Haynesworth and Glaze are more phone booth blockers.  Again, perhaps we will see something at the combine like we did with Humphreys.

Raym(OU) and Bortolini(Wis) are decent late round centers with some athleticism but they are not starters without a year to get stronger.

Edited February 18 by jebrick

[armsteeld]

When watching Jordan Morgan who is 6'6 312 , he you immediately see how smooth he is compared to the media's top ranked guys. He is good and he knows it. His balance and strength to control defenders is solid. Has good hand strength but is slow to play his hands. Not a body catcher but he is smart enough not to overreach. His footwork is smooth and light in pass sets. You won't catch him bending over his knees/forward lean too much. I was ignoring him because I wanted a RT so we could switch Jones back to LT. I honestly ask myself does it even matter which side you play on? Jones hasn't played too many LT snaps so he is still moldable.

UCLA DL is loaded with athletic talented pass rushers.

 

[armsteeld]

9 minutes ago, rlon said:

Odds of Morgan slipping to us in round 2? Not going to be good, IMO, the more people see of him…looks like Paul is the round 2 option….Yale or Notre Dame RT considerations in round 3…Jones in the 4th maybe. The other option is to draft a developmental, high ceiling left tackle skill set type and just play him behind Moore. That’s not optimal though.

Yeah he may go round 1. Those Ts the media talk about are RTs which some teams don't value as highly as the LTs. I do like Jones. He's a good player.

[armsteeld]

8 minutes ago, jebrick said:

If they are going to move to more of  a wide-zone scheme then JPJ must be their 1st round choice.  I say that because while this center class is deep in talent, the talent is not for moving. 

I would love Frazier he is not JPJ's level of athleticism.  

If you have Van Pran as Center#3 then that is truly your limit on who you select ( if moving to a wide-zone). Limmer, Nuget, Haynesworth and Glaze are more phone booth blockers.  Again, perhaps we will see something at the combine like we did with Humphreys.

Raym(OU) and Bortolini(Wis) are decent late round centers with some athleticism but they are not starters without a year to get stronger.

I don't have them ranked but JPJ clearly is the best player at that position. With Frazier, many said Kendrick Green was too small for the position yet Frazier is the same size but with a shorter wingspan. I don't like OL who get pancaked and who struggle getting to LBs.

[warfelg]

55 minutes ago, armsteeld said:

When watching Jordan Morgan who is 6'6 312 , he you immediately see how smooth he is compared to the media's top ranked guys. He is good and he knows it. His balance and strength to control defenders is solid. Has good hand strength but is slow to play his hands. Not a body catcher but he is smart enough not to overreach. His footwork is smooth and light in pass sets. You won't catch him bending over his knees/forward lean too much. I was ignoring him because I wanted a RT so we could switch Jones back to LT. I honestly ask myself does it even matter which side you play on? Jones hasn't played too many LT snaps so he is still moldable.

UCLA DL is loaded with athletic talented pass rushers.

 

He’s been my target for RD 2 for a while. I want RD1 to be more open. Get a C in FA. 

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, armsteeld said:

I can't and won't speak on scheme specifics because I don't know how the OL instructed his guys. What I see is SVP going after guys and missing. I see him sliding off blocks. The amount of times I see him on the ground is alarming. An OL can't block off his back. Yes he moves well in space but he has issues getting to the LBs too much for my liking. 

Yes all prospects need to be coached up when they hit the NFL. Yes SVP is athletic. I'm looking short to long when I look at these players. SVP has too many issues for me to take him before day 3. As of now, Jackson Powers-Johnson is the only Center I'd take in the first 2 days of the draft. If I miss on JPJ, then I'm not selecting a Center until day 3.

Yea, just to be clear I’m not like super high on SVP to some level to ignore those issues.  I think going to off the board is too far on him IMO though.

[AFF]

2 hours ago, jebrick said:

If they are going to move to more of  a wide-zone scheme then JPJ must be their 1st round choice.  I say that because while this center class is deep in talent, the talent is not for moving. 

I would love Frazier he is not JPJ's level of athleticism.  

If you have Van Pran as Center#3 then that is truly your limit on who you select ( if moving to a wide-zone). Limmer, Nuget, Haynesworth and Glaze are more phone booth blockers.  Again, perhaps we will see something at the combine like we did with Humphreys.

Raym(OU) and Bortolini(Wis) are decent late round centers with some athleticism but they are not starters without a year to get stronger.

Bortolinni was a guy I looked at some and found interesting.

[rlon]

4 hours ago, armsteeld said:

I have been up since 6 AM watching IOL and a couple OTs. JPJ and Latham are wet dream picks for the Steelers. Another guy I'm liking is Jordan Morgan. He is very similar to Broderick Jones.

About Latham, he truly is a dream, as I just read that he runs a 4.85 forty, meaning he won’t make it past pick 10, when the green fools draft him to be a left tackle….true to their form.