Swampbilly Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 (edited) 17 hours ago, LinderFournette said: Actually he can. Dudes already built like it. Might need to put on a lil weight but who's to say he hasn't been playing higher then 270 already. Dude is not built like a traditional DT. If he was then he wouldn't need to put on a lil weight. He's made huge improvement in production in year 2 at edge, so why would the Jags throw it all away to switch his position??? Is it possible? Sure......Is it probable? Not IMO. I don't see the Jags taking an edge rusher in round 1 unless they can't come to terms with Allen and have to let him walk. Additionally, I would like to see the Jags surround Trevor Lawrence with playmakers, and in what looks to be a great WR class (also a great OT class) I expect they target a WR early. Adding Gabe Davis at WR was a solid move but not enough to take WR off the Jags early needs list IMO. Edited April 1 by Swampbilly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampbilly Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 (edited) 17 hours ago, LinderFournette said: Look at the jags contract situation. Allen for all intents and purposes is a free agent next year. Why not draft a guy who's arguably bpa at the least especially in our division cuz u need to knock Stroud around. Walkers already developing at a faster pace most thought. Now u throw in one of the best DL coaches as his DC and neilsen can coach walker up in some areas to unleash him even more. He's a huge mismatch inside cuz he's way to fast and agile for Guards/centers and probably too powerful/athletic for a decent bit of tackles. Sounds like wishful thinking. He might be useful in that role in a NASCAR type package, but putting him there full time would be a big change. With the loss of Ridley, a legit WR1 capable of 1k yard seasons is a huge Jags need IMO, and 2024 is a fantastic WR class. Jags are in a great position to draft one of the best WR's in this class. I don't think Gabe Davis should be seen as a replacement for Calvin Ridley's production. Edited April 1 by Swampbilly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DUKE Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 I wouldn't rule out Latham at 18 for the Bengals, but him not testing at all before the draft is a red flag that might have him fall a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 On 3/31/2024 at 2:25 PM, LinderFournette said: Look at the jags contract situation. Allen for all intents and purposes is a free agent next year. Why not draft a guy who's arguably bpa at the least especially in our division cuz u need to knock Stroud around. Walkers already developing at a faster pace most thought. Now u throw in one of the best DL coaches as his DC and neilsen can coach walker up in some areas to unleash him even more. He's a huge mismatch inside cuz he's way to fast and agile for Guards/centers and probably too powerful/athletic for a decent bit of tackles. Drafting a guy (who isn't even very good) for this year because you're afraid you'll lose Allen as a Free Agent is loser *** franchise mentality. We're not a farm system for other teams. If they can't get Josh Allen locked up, it's an immense failure in it's own right. But the best way to make sure they can get that does, is to build as good a team as possible for this year, surround Lawrence with talent, keep building defensive depth...and convince him by having the team go on a serious playoff run. That's how you win over an elite free agent. This Edge class is ***. Verse has like a tenth of the talent that Josh Allen does. He's not even a better edge rusher than Walker, and he's an even more awkward fit for the scheme. There's also zero reason to take a guy you recently drafted 1st overall...in the entire draft. You could pick anyone. You picked him. And now you want to take positive progression as a DE/OLB in a system where the new coach has already even talked about him as a really good edge defender, and try to convert him to DT where he'd get eaten alive? Take away his power and strength advantage and put him at a disadvantage, in order to try to use his speed and agility inside? Again...this is what you do when you reduce a guy down on clear passing downs. That's great. And the Jaguars do need somebody to fill Rousseau's useless empty boots. But with their 1st round pick? In a terribly weak Edge class...while desperately needing a quality top target WR, in a rare extremely deep WR draft? That's goofy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 On 3/31/2024 at 7:38 AM, LinderFournette said: I'll take an edge over over a wr all day Outside the big 3(MHJ Nabers Odunze). U complain about taking a cb. U complain about about taking a guy to put pressure on the QB besides also providing insurance if we can't come to terms with Josh Allen. At this point I think u won't be satisfied with any player. I complain about taking a DB, especially one without a clearly known position because it's bad value there. I complain about taking an Edge defender we don't need and is a very questionable convoluted fit because it's bad value and a bad fit. I'd be plenty happy with a lot of players. I just want someone who is actually going to make the team better. Worrying about "insurance" for if Josh Allen walks next year is just pure straight up, unadulterated, loser mentality. Scared money don't make money. You draft a guy who isn't that good like Verse to "replace" Josh Allen instead of a stud who is going to help get this team somewhere in the playoffs and yeah...you may as well just sign Allen's walking papers. If you're more concerned about replacing the guy than improving the team, i'd walk right directly out the door too. Wouldn't even blame him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinderFournette Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 (edited) On 4/1/2024 at 10:13 AM, Swampbilly said: Sounds like wishful thinking. He might be useful in that role in a NASCAR type package, but putting him there full time would be a big change. With the loss of Ridley, a legit WR1 capable of 1k yard seasons is a huge Jags need IMO, and 2024 is a fantastic WR class. Jags are in a great position to draft one of the best WR's in this class. I don't think Gabe Davis should be seen as a replacement for Calvin Ridley's production. We don't need a legit 1. Kirk is more then sufficient as wr 1. Davis is fine for a wr 2/3 along with Zay. Jags would be dumber passing on a great value edge then reaching for maybe the 4th best wr in class at best. Jags should probably go CB based on what we have and who we face but a great pass rush can negate some. As for Walker not being big enough. Dudes 6 foot 5 probably 275. Adding maybe 10 pounds isn't that bad. Malik Jackson was pretty close to that Edited April 3 by LinderFournette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinderFournette Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 16 hours ago, Tugboat said: I complain about taking a DB, especially one without a clearly known position because it's bad value there. I complain about taking an Edge defender we don't need and is a very questionable convoluted fit because it's bad value and a bad fit. I'd be plenty happy with a lot of players. I just want someone who is actually going to make the team better. Worrying about "insurance" for if Josh Allen walks next year is just pure straight up, unadulterated, loser mentality. Scared money don't make money. You draft a guy who isn't that good like Verse to "replace" Josh Allen instead of a stud who is going to help get this team somewhere in the playoffs and yeah...you may as well just sign Allen's walking papers. If you're more concerned about replacing the guy than improving the team, i'd walk right directly out the door too. Wouldn't even blame him. Do I need to remind u who the GM is? When we tagged Cam the first time guess what he did in round 2 draft Walker little. You can truly never have enough pass rushers. More good pass rushers = more rest which= fresher pass rush = more pressures and QB sacks. You wanna know why the 49ers have been closer to the Superbowl then us. Its cuz they have a ton of good pass rushers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinderFournette Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 16 hours ago, Tugboat said: Drafting a guy (who isn't even very good) for this year because you're afraid you'll lose Allen as a Free Agent is loser *** franchise mentality. We're not a farm system for other teams. If they can't get Josh Allen locked up, it's an immense failure in it's own right. But the best way to make sure they can get that does, is to build as good a team as possible for this year, surround Lawrence with talent, keep building defensive depth...and convince him by having the team go on a serious playoff run. That's how you win over an elite free agent. This Edge class is ***. Verse has like a tenth of the talent that Josh Allen does. He's not even a better edge rusher than Walker, and he's an even more awkward fit for the scheme. There's also zero reason to take a guy you recently drafted 1st overall...in the entire draft. You could pick anyone. You picked him. And now you want to take positive progression as a DE/OLB in a system where the new coach has already even talked about him as a really good edge defender, and try to convert him to DT where he'd get eaten alive? Take away his power and strength advantage and put him at a disadvantage, in order to try to use his speed and agility inside? Again...this is what you do when you reduce a guy down on clear passing downs. That's great. And the Jaguars do need somebody to fill Rousseau's useless empty boots. But with their 1st round pick? In a terribly weak Edge class...while desperately needing a quality top target WR, in a rare extremely deep WR draft? That's goofy. He wouldn't get eaten alive at DT. We've seen him play snaps inside. U want to build a winner get better in the trenches. Currently we have 2 edge rushers who can start and not much else unless gipson returns to previous form. sounds to me like that would help the team win day 1. Currently we have 2 dts that can be considered average starters or above. Then you have RRH who is probably right as a DT 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 28 minutes ago, LinderFournette said: We don't need a legit 1. Kirk is more then sufficient as wr 1. Davis is fine for a wr 2/3 along with Zay. Jags would be dumber passing on a great value edge then reaching for maybe the 4th best wr in class at best. Jags should probably go CB based on what we have and who we face but a great pass rush can negate some. As for Walker not being big enough. Dudes 6 foot 5 probably 275. Adding maybe 10 pounds isn't that bad. Malik Jackson was pretty close to that Kirk is nowhere near fine as a #1WR. He's a niche #2. You want to win in this league, you give Lawrence bigtime weapons. You set him up for success like Burrow. Who have two receivers that are miles better than Kirk or anyone else on this Jaguars team. Verse is also not a "Great Value" edge. He's a mediocre edge getting pushed up the board in a weak Edge class. And you're completely acting like the actual build of a guy like Walker doesn't play a factor in his ideal playing weight. As though guys can just add or drop 10lbs and change their body composition sufficiently to completely switch positions? It's not a videogame man. 6 minutes ago, LinderFournette said: Do I need to remind u who the GM is? When we tagged Cam the first time guess what he did in round 2 draft Walker little. You can truly never have enough pass rushers. More good pass rushers = more rest which= fresher pass rush = more pressures and QB sacks. You wanna know why the 49ers have been closer to the Superbowl then us. Its cuz they have a ton of good pass rushers. They drafted Walker Little because we had a RT who was complete *** at the time, and Cam Robison was also a very fringe acceptable starter with clear issues staying healthy. Completely different scenario than spurning your Superstar Pass Rusher in Josh Allen by drafting a downgrade replacement for him, over something that would help the team substantially more on the year you've got with him on the Franchise Tag. The year that he's going to be evaluating whether this team is going anywhere serious, or if he just wants out as soon as possible. 1 minute ago, LinderFournette said: He wouldn't get eaten alive at DT. We've seen him play snaps inside. U want to build a winner get better in the trenches. Currently we have 2 edge rushers who can start and not much else unless gipson returns to previous form. sounds to me like that would help the team win day 1. Currently we have 2 dts that can be considered average starters or above. Then you have RRH who is probably right as a DT 3. We've seen little snippets of Walker reduced down inside in specific situations. Which i'm completely fine with. That's a completely different animal from trying to make him a full-time DT. Walker is strong for an Edge guy. He's weak for an IDL and would get picked on all day in running situations in particular. Without a doubt. Heck, if you really want to improve the pass rush and particularly upgrade the interior DLine...why not just draft a natural Interior DLineman? lmao. Why take the roundabout way over overdrafting and edge guy and derailing the progress of your recent #1 Overall pick Edge guy? Jer'Zhan Newton is one of the best defensive players in this draft, with enormous upside...and he's available there in this mock. I'd be much happier doing that than going with Verse. He's a better player. And it makes far more sense to just draft a player for the role you want to fill, at better value... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vshank8182 Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 Love the discussion from FF community! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampbilly Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 On 4/3/2024 at 6:52 PM, LinderFournette said: We don't need a legit 1. Kirk is more then sufficient as wr 1. Davis is fine for a wr 2/3 along with Zay. Jags would be dumber passing on a great value edge then reaching for maybe the 4th best wr in class at best. Jags should probably go CB based on what we have and who we face but a great pass rush can negate some. As for Walker not being big enough. Dudes 6 foot 5 probably 275. Adding maybe 10 pounds isn't that bad. Malik Jackson was pretty close to that We just disagree, and that’s OK. I don’t have a crystal ball, but I would be majorly surprised to see Jags go Edge ( a possible 2025 need ) over WR ( IMO a definite 2024 need ) in what isn’t a fantastic edge rusher class but is a fantastic WR class. When the strength of the draft plays to a teams need then it’s brutal to watch a GM butcher it LOL. Either way we will find out who the Jags draft in a few weeks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Friend Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 Probably wouldn’t be one of my top 3 choices for the Lions at 29 but I cannot argue the talent or reasoning. It would be a good fit and something I could see happening. Not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 (edited) On 4/5/2024 at 10:07 AM, Swampbilly said: We just disagree, and that’s OK. I don’t have a crystal ball, but I would be majorly surprised to see Jags go Edge ( a possible 2025 need ) over WR ( IMO a definite 2024 need ) in what isn’t a fantastic edge rusher class but is a fantastic WR class. When the strength of the draft plays to a teams need then it’s brutal to watch a GM butcher it LOL. Either way we will find out who the Jags draft in a few weeks. Yeah. It'd just be rough to see this draft absolutely stacked in WR which is a huge need for the Jaguars...and see them not go there to get Trevor a much needed weapon at great value. I mean, there's some reasoning i suppose that says maybe you go elsewhere like CB or something in the 1st if you think you can still get a potential #1 or 1b type receiver in the 2nd round simply because it is such a deep position in this draft. But i'm a big fan of mining the deepest meat of a draft, especially when it aligns perfectly with a position of clear "need". Edge guys in this draft class are getting pumped up in "price" due to relative scarcity. It's not a strong or deep Edge draft. Conversely, WRs are getting suppressed in their draft position due to the crazy depth and extremely strong top end. For example...guys like Brian Thomas Jr / Keon Coleman / Adonai Mitchell...probably go a lot higher in a more typical, or especially a "weak" WR draft. They'd be getting pushed up boards as potential WR1 types with all the tools to get there...if not for the fact that there are 3 absolute blue chip studs at the very top of the class with MHJ/Nabers/Odunze. But getting one of that "second tier" at 17 is like getting one of the "top tier" of a more typical WR draft in the middle of the 1st round, which is great value to me. Edited April 6 by Tugboat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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