detfan782004 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 (edited) 4 hours ago, Just Want A Title said: I don't know when a player like Hendon Hooker was classified as a "project". He was drafted with the idea if his floor being QB2 and to take on the starter role if Jared Goff faltered. You may recall he was, prior to his injury, favored to win the Heisman and a 1st-round draft projection. You also may want to re-visit his college stats: Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate *2018 Virginia Tech ACC FR QB 3 0 0 0 0 0 *2019 Virginia Tech ACC SO QB 11 99 162 61.1 1555 9.6 10.6 13 2 165.8 2020 Virginia Tech ACC JR QB 8 98 150 65.3 1339 8.9 8.6 9 5 153.5 *2021 Tennessee SEC SR QB 13 206 302 68.2 2945 9.8 11.4 31 3 182.0 *2022 Tennessee SEC SR 11 229 329 69.6 3135 9.5 10.9 27 2 175 What do you think QB3 is for if QB1 and QB2 are more or less set? Do they need another veteran QB? Nope. Using that QB3 slot for a developmental QB is actually pretty common even of the player is on the PS. I don't know what you are looking at with respect to Cade Peterson's tools. He checks in at 6'4" and 220Lbs as I understand it. That is neither short or skinny. As we have seen before, where a player starts doesn't matter if he has the tools. He has the physical build to play in the NFL. He put up pretty good production and was 33-4 as a starter. So he played at GVSU. This is why he is the developmental QB/QB3. Cooper Rush played at Central Michigan and is a solid QB2. Cade Peterson is pretty comparable. You know what non-QB played at GVSU--Matthew Judon. It doesn't matter where you are from or even if you aren't drafted. What matters is if the player can earn a spot on the roster. There is nothing to say that Cade Peterson can't do it and a fair amount of stuff that says he could grab the #3QB role. Unless Brad Holmes, MCDC and Ben Johsnon are in this form there probably isn't anyone who can safely predict what Cade Peterson can or can't do. Nobody is a prospect in football. This ain't baseball. The guys in tryouts are just warm bodies. Edited May 10 by detfan782004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 (edited) 12 hours ago, detfan782004 said: Nobody is a prospect in football. This ain't baseball. The guys in tryouts are just warm bodies. So the only thing you have is a nonsensical rant that makes no sense. If nothing else, you are consistent. Apparently you aren't aware of how PFF, Daniel Jeremiah and other refer to potential draft prospects: 2024 NFL Draft Big Board: PFF's top 315 prospects | NFL Draft | PFF Daniel Jeremiah's top 150 prospects in the 2024 NFL Draft: Where did each player land? 2024 NFL Draft top 250 prospect rankings: Marvin Harrison Jr., Caleb Williams atop an offense-heavy list - CBSSports.com Eric Edholm's top 100 prospects 2.0: Ranking the best players in the 2024 NFL Draft class Edited May 10 by Just Want A Title Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 34 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said: So the only thing you have is a nonsensical rant that makes no sense. If nothing else, you are consistent. Apparently you aren't aware of how PFF, Daniel Jeremiah and other refer to potential draft prospects: 2024 NFL Draft Big Board: PFF's top 315 prospects | NFL Draft | PFF Daniel Jeremiah's top 150 prospects in the 2024 NFL Draft: Where did each player land? 2024 NFL Draft top 250 prospect rankings: Marvin Harrison Jr., Caleb Williams atop an offense-heavy list - CBSSports.com Eric Edholm's top 100 prospects 2.0: Ranking the best players in the 2024 NFL Draft class Prospects = pre-draft (as they are not designated as drafted (or even more so, 1st round, 2nd round, etc.), UDFA Priority (a player teams really liked but opted not to draft), UDFA or SFA (street free agent - not sure at what point you go from UDFA to SFA). Once that is sorted out, they're no longer prospects. The NFL and the NFL draft is more so based on immediate return. We are rarely looking at someone being drafted as a long-term project. Hockey and baseball are nearly the complete opposite - these are kids who are 18 years old being drafted by NHL and MLB clubs. They then are brought into the development systems of that club. This could be a kid drafted into the NHL out of the OHL (Ontario Hockey League) who then goes to the team's AHL team, ECHL team or they could stay at the OHL level. That kid could never see the ice at the NHL level or they could be brought up quickly and become a total stud. That would be the definition of a prospect.. someone who is a prospective professional level player. The average age of playing in their first NHL game is 21-22 years old. So you're looking at 3-4 years after they're drafted, if they even make it at all. You're going to get exceptional players that will start at 18 but those guys are built different. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 2 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: Prospects = pre-draft (as they are not designated as drafted (or even more so, 1st round, 2nd round, etc.), UDFA Priority (a player teams really liked but opted not to draft), UDFA or SFA (street free agent - not sure at what point you go from UDFA to SFA). Once that is sorted out, they're no longer prospects. The NFL and the NFL draft is more so based on immediate return. We are rarely looking at someone being drafted as a long-term project. Hockey and baseball are nearly the complete opposite - these are kids who are 18 years old being drafted by NHL and MLB clubs. They then are brought into the development systems of that club. This could be a kid drafted into the NHL out of the OHL (Ontario Hockey League) who then goes to the team's AHL team, ECHL team or they could stay at the OHL level. That kid could never see the ice at the NHL level or they could be brought up quickly and become a total stud. That would be the definition of a prospect.. someone who is a prospective professional level player. The average age of playing in their first NHL game is 21-22 years old. So you're looking at 3-4 years after they're drafted, if they even make it at all. You're going to get exceptional players that will start at 18 but those guys are built different. The season hasn't started yet. They are all still prospects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 Just now, Just Want A Title said: The season hasn't started yet. They are all still prospects They aren't. They are now professional football players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 5 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: They aren't. They are now professional football players. To be fair, I would consider Day and Peterson and any other rookies at the rookie camp who only have a rookie camp invite as prospects. They get a small payment for being at the camp so technically are professionals but dont have contracts beyond that and are sort of doing the same thing teams do at pro days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 44 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: They aren't. They are now professional football players. Is that written somewhere or are you passing off your opinion as fact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 20 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said: Is that written somewhere or are you passing off your opinion as fact? They're signed to a contract with a professional football team. To @Sllim Pickens point, if they're invited out on a try out basis then the argument of a "prospect" could hold some water. If they're signed to a contract as a member of the Detroit Lions, that would make them a professional football player by definition. Just because they aren't on the final 53 or play in a game doesn't mean that they don't fit the definition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nnivolcm Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 31 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: They're signed to a contract with a professional football team. To @Sllim Pickens point, if they're invited out on a try out basis then the argument of a "prospect" could hold some water. If they're signed to a contract as a member of the Detroit Lions, that would make them a professional football player by definition. Just because they aren't on the final 53 or play in a game doesn't mean that they don't fit the definition. I think it would be fair to extend the argument to anyone who's got a contract with zero guarantees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 13 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said: I think it would be fair to extend the argument to anyone who's got a contract with zero guarantees. I don't know how those "try out" contracts work. Is it "come work out with us and we can then make you another offer"? Or is it "come work out with us and if we like you, we can exercise the option for your rights and keep you around"? I know at the CFL level they do have open tryouts. This isn't quite the same situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 1 hour ago, Karnage84 said: They're signed to a contract with a professional football team. To @Sllim Pickens point, if they're invited out on a try out basis then the argument of a "prospect" could hold some water. If they're signed to a contract as a member of the Detroit Lions, that would make them a professional football player by definition. Just because they aren't on the final 53 or play in a game doesn't mean that they don't fit the definition. I agree if they sign a contract. Even the UDFA's who signed real contracts to get through training camp at least are professionals and must carry themselves that way and expect to be on the team and make an impact or they will be cut. In baseball they are professionals in the minor leagues but they need development that could take 1-6 years. The variance in tools/talent is very different in baseball because you have time to develop those tools and talents. Football uses college to do that and then expects immediate returns (maybe 1 or 2 years of development but in general immediate). Either way, its a game of semantics really. Peterson is IMO a prospect because he has to show out just to make it to training camp. He is currently being evaluated deeper to see if he fits the roster where as Arnold and Rakestraw, have their spots on the roster for this year locked in. But that fact doesn't change the timeline for Peterson and he needs to make immediate impacts or go to the CFL, UFL or some other league to try and improve his tools because the NFL doesn't wait around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nnivolcm Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 41 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: I don't know how those "try out" contracts work. Is it "come work out with us and we can then make you another offer"? Or is it "come work out with us and if we like you, we can exercise the option for your rights and keep you around"? I know at the CFL level they do have open tryouts. This isn't quite the same situation. A contract with zero guarantees is just a documented try out imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 4 hours ago, Karnage84 said: Prospects = pre-draft (as they are not designated as drafted (or even more so, 1st round, 2nd round, etc.), UDFA Priority (a player teams really liked but opted not to draft), UDFA or SFA (street free agent - not sure at what point you go from UDFA to SFA). Once that is sorted out, they're no longer prospects. The NFL and the NFL draft is more so based on immediate return. We are rarely looking at someone being drafted as a long-term project. Hockey and baseball are nearly the complete opposite - these are kids who are 18 years old being drafted by NHL and MLB clubs. They then are brought into the development systems of that club. This could be a kid drafted into the NHL out of the OHL (Ontario Hockey League) who then goes to the team's AHL team, ECHL team or they could stay at the OHL level. That kid could never see the ice at the NHL level or they could be brought up quickly and become a total stud. That would be the definition of a prospect.. someone who is a prospective professional level player. The average age of playing in their first NHL game is 21-22 years old. So you're looking at 3-4 years after they're drafted, if they even make it at all. You're going to get exceptional players that will start at 18 but those guys are built different. Excellent facts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detfan782004 Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 3 hours ago, Karnage84 said: They're signed to a contract with a professional football team. To @Sllim Pickens point, if they're invited out on a try out basis then the argument of a "prospect" could hold some water. If they're signed to a contract as a member of the Detroit Lions, that would make them a professional football player by definition. Just because they aren't on the final 53 or play in a game doesn't mean that they don't fit the definition. Once money transfers they are indeed not prospect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 5 minutes ago, detfan782004 said: Once money transfers they are indeed not prospect I disagree with that. Baseball and hockey players get paid when in the minor leagues but are still prospects. When an NFL player signs a deal in which they will play in the NFL or be on a practice squad, they aren't prospects. If they get paid a few thousand dollars to come out to a rookie camp with no guarantee beyond that, they are prospects. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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