2024 Breakout Players

[Soko]

I mean, Jefferson isn’t really an otherworldly athlete, so that’s not really much of a comparison. He’s got good speed, but he’s not like Jaylen Waddle or Jameson Williams or something. He’s got good hops, but he’s not like CeeDee Lamb or DeAndre Hopkins. He’s quick, but he’s not Tyreek Hill. 

JJ’s a good athlete but what makes him special is his WR skillet, not his athletic traits. There are probably a couple handfuls of WRs in every draft class that are comparably athletic or more athletic than JJ.

[HerbertGOAT]

I think Josh Palmer will have a 1100 yard season by virtue of being one of the only passable options in the offense and then he gets 4 years 100 million from the Panthers and proceed to flame out.

[Tank4Drake]

5 hours ago, Soko said:

I mean, Jefferson isn’t really an otherworldly athlete, so that’s not really much of a comparison. He’s got good speed, but he’s not like Jaylen Waddle or Jameson Williams or something. He’s got good hops, but he’s not like CeeDee Lamb or DeAndre Hopkins. He’s quick, but he’s not Tyreek Hill. 

JJ’s a good athlete but what makes him special is his WR skillet, not his athletic traits. There are probably a couple handfuls of WRs in every draft class that are comparably athletic or more athletic than JJ.

Dude you have no idea what you’re talking about. Jefferson’s RAS is 9.69 and is a better athlete than every guy you mentioned. He scores amazing in literally every athletic category, where those guys only score good in certain categories. 

What you’re saying describes CeeDee Lamb not Justin Jefferson. Lamb only has a RAS of 7 and is not overly athletic as some of these 1st-2nd Round WR’s in the NFL. Lamb uses his amazing skillset to be a great WR. 

[Tank4Drake]

JaMarr Chase and Justin Jefferson are the two best athletes at the WR position. Saying Jefferson isn’t an otherworldly athlete is the funniest and most clueless thing I’ve read in the past couple weeks. 

@SteelKing728 @vike daddy 

[vike daddy]

silly, silly boys who say Jefferson is not an elite athlete...

the defender is facing the play and has two hands on the ball, yet Jefferson, one handed and twisting at his torso, comes away it.

silly, silly boys....

 

Edited June 30 by vike daddy

[Tank4Drake]

2 minutes ago, vike daddy said:

silly, silly boys who say Jefferson is not an elite athlete...

 

Jesus…

[Tank4Drake]

6 minutes ago, vike daddy said:

silly, silly boys who say Jefferson is not an elite athlete...

the defender is facing the play and has two hands on the ball, yet Jefferson, one handed and twisting at his torso, comes away it.

silly, silly boys....

 

Also claims he doesn’t have Jaylen Waddle speed, lol. Waddle’s great but his speed gets really exaggerated. His 40 time at his Pro Day (skipped the combine) was a 4.37. General rule of thumb is to subtract 0.05 from a Pro Day (bare minimum). So that would be a 4.42, which is what I see on tape. His super-shiftiness makes him appear faster than he is. Jefferson runs a 4.43. If you watch them, their straight-line speed is literally the same thing. 

[Soko]

On 6/29/2024 at 8:45 PM, Tank4Drake said:

Dude you have no idea what you’re talking about. Jefferson’s RAS is 9.69 and is a better athlete than every guy you mentioned. He scores amazing in literally every athletic category, where those guys only score good in certain categories. 

What you’re saying describes CeeDee Lamb not Justin Jefferson. Lamb only has a RAS of 7 and is not overly athletic as some of these 1st-2nd Round WR’s in the NFL. Lamb uses his amazing skillset to be a great WR. 

I’ve been over this before, but relying on RAS runs you down a pretty indefensible rabbit hole. 

Alec Pierce has a higher RAS than Jefferson and Tyreek Hill. Jonathan Mingo is higher. Denzel Mims is higher. Terrace Marshall Jr is higher. Johnny Wilson and Chris Godwin are virtually tied with JJ, and above Tyreek. Rome Odunze beats both. AT Perry beats both. DJ Chark beats both. Courtland Sutton beats both. Vincent Jackson nearly has a perfect score, higher than a Julio Jones and Randy Moss. So yeah, according to RAS, there are plenty of guys every single year on par/above Jefferson, but the stronger point really is: who in their right mind is putting any of the receivers mentioned (including Jefferson) athletically above Tyreek Hill? Nobody with eyes, tbf. 

JJ isn’t a special athlete in terms of speed, leaping ability, pure agility, strength, or size. He’s strong in all those areas, but special in none. Tyreek is transcendent in a couple of those, but since he’s three inches shorter, that makes him worse? I’m supposed to think two guys are comparable, despite one being a special mover and the other being a good but not great mover, because the not so great mover has bigger hand size and is heavier? Nah. RAS would have a 6’8, 270lb WR with a 4.9 forty and 10 inch vertical comparable to a 5’7, 165lb WR with a 4.1 forty and a 50 inch vert. It’s a loose ballpark of measurements but far from anything you should this seriously.

When you’re looking at RAS, are you actually looking at the measurements, or taking the score and running with it? Like, Hill vs Jefferson. Hill didn’t measure his hands or arm length (Jefferson got good scores there), and JJ didn’t measure shuttle, 3 cone, (Hill scored great there) or bench (Hill scored low there). Jefferson wins in height and weight. Hill destroyed JJ in vertical. He destroyed him in the broad. Destroyed him in the 40. Beat him in the 20 yard split. And massacred him in the 10 yard split. So of everything they both measured in - Hill had much better scores in explosion (vertical, broad jump) and Jefferson was a little taller/heavier. The only 90th+ percentile score JJ had was his 29 yard split, meanwhile Tyreek breached that in the vertical jump, broad jump, 40 yard dash, 20 yard split, 10 yard split, 3-cone, and barely missed it by .03 in the shuttle. The “he scores amazing in literally every category” is factually incorrect. So you’re essentially saying the guy who doesn’t run as fast, isn’t as quick, and isn’t as explosive, is the better athlete…because he’s bigger. It doesn’t make sense, and it makes even less when you actually look at them move on the field. There is no more special athlete on the field than Tyreek Hill at any given time, and in this case, no, it’s not close between he and Jefferson there.

So I’d ask, what does Jefferson do that’s special, athletically? Not stuff that involves nuance of the WR position, but as a pure athlete. Comparing him to a Tyreek Hill, what does JJ do better than Tyreek Hill? He’s taller and heavier, that’s about all I can see.

On 6/29/2024 at 8:59 PM, Tank4Drake said:

JaMarr Chase and Justin Jefferson are the two best athletes at the WR position. Saying Jefferson isn’t an otherworldly athlete is the funniest and most clueless thing I’ve read in the past couple weeks. 

@SteelKing728 @vike daddy 

By your own unit of measurement, RAS, this isn’t true. Jefferson would rank 10th among 2024 draft prospects (WR) alone.

EDIT: FWIW, I would say Chase is an elite athlete at the WR position. Better than Jefferson, for sure.

[vike daddy]

1 hour ago, Soko said:

JJ isn’t a special athlete in terms of speed, leaping ability, pure agility, strength, or size. He’s strong in all those areas, but special in none.

three guys go up for this ball, guess who comes down with it?
 

[vike daddy]

2 hours ago, Tank4Drake said:

Jesus…

yes. but keep in mind Jefferson doesn't have special "speed, leaping ability, pure agility, strength, or size."

[Soko]

2 hours ago, vike daddy said:

three guys go up for this ball, guess who comes down with it?

Did a great job high pointing the ball. He isn’t an elite jumper. JJ barely got off the ground for that catch, here’s the link to it. Seems to me that we’re confusing jump ball ability/catches in traffic/strength at the point of attack/high pointing the ball/concentration, with being an elite athlete. Those are great WR skills that make a guy like Justin Jefferson who he is. Special. But if you put him in a vertical jump competition with the entire NFL, he likely doesn’t place top 20.

We can use RAS/draft stuff to say that (his 37 vertical is good, but not elite), or we can look at examples and say guys like Lamb or Hopkins are better jumpers. Is a single example supposed to change anything? In that case, I have proof that Tom Brady was an elite open field runner, juking out a HOF LBer for the first down.

 

 

What is Jefferson special at, athletically? It’s not elite size. It’s not elite speed. It’s not elite jumping. If we use RAS (which I think is lazy and inaccurate), that doesn’t label him as a special athlete either. Those things are all measured, and proven. So what is it?

[Tank4Drake]

5 hours ago, Soko said:

I’ve been over this before, but relying on RAS runs you down a pretty indefensible rabbit hole. 

Alec Pierce has a higher RAS than Jefferson and Tyreek Hill. Jonathan Mingo is higher. Denzel Mims is higher. Terrace Marshall Jr is higher. Johnny Wilson and Chris Godwin are virtually tied with JJ, and above Tyreek. Rome Odunze beats both. AT Perry beats both. DJ Chark beats both. Courtland Sutton beats both. Vincent Jackson nearly has a perfect score, higher than a Julio Jones and Randy Moss. So yeah, according to RAS, there are plenty of guys every single year on par/above Jefferson, but the stronger point really is: who in their right mind is putting any of the receivers mentioned (including Jefferson) athletically above Tyreek Hill? Nobody with eyes, tbf. 

JJ isn’t a special athlete in terms of speed, leaping ability, pure agility, strength, or size. He’s strong in all those areas, but special in none. Tyreek is transcendent in a couple of those, but since he’s three inches shorter, that makes him worse? I’m supposed to think two guys are comparable, despite one being a special mover and the other being a good but not great mover, because the not so great mover has bigger hand size and is heavier? Nah. RAS would have a 6’8, 270lb WR with a 4.9 forty and 10 inch vertical comparable to a 5’7, 165lb WR with a 4.1 forty and a 50 inch vert. It’s a loose ballpark of measurements but far from anything you should this seriously.

When you’re looking at RAS, are you actually looking at the measurements, or taking the score and running with it? Like, Hill vs Jefferson. Hill didn’t measure his hands or arm length (Jefferson got good scores there), and JJ didn’t measure shuttle, 3 cone, (Hill scored great there) or bench (Hill scored low there). Jefferson wins in height and weight. Hill destroyed JJ in vertical. He destroyed him in the broad. Destroyed him in the 40. Beat him in the 20 yard split. And massacred him in the 10 yard split. So of everything they both measured in - Hill had much better scores in explosion (vertical, broad jump) and Jefferson was a little taller/heavier. The only 90th+ percentile score JJ had was his 29 yard split, meanwhile Tyreek breached that in the vertical jump, broad jump, 40 yard dash, 20 yard split, 10 yard split, 3-cone, and barely missed it by .03 in the shuttle. So you’re essentially saying the guy who doesn’t run as fast, isn’t as quick, and isn’t as explosive, is the better athlete…because he’s bigger. It doesn’t make sense, and it makes even less when you actually look at them move on the field. There is no more special athlete on the field than Tyreek Hill at any given time, and in this case, no, it’s not close between he and Jefferson there.

So I’d ask, what does Jefferson do that’s special, athletically? Not stuff that involves nuance of the WR position, but as a pure athlete. Comparing him to a Tyreek Hill, what does JJ do better than Tyreek Hill? He’s taller and heavier, that’s about all I can see.

By your own unit of measurement, RAS, this isn’t true. Jefferson would rank 10th among 2024 draft prospects (WR) alone.

EDIT: FWIW, I would say Chase is an elite athlete at the WR position. Better than Jefferson, for sure.

Chase and Jefferson are the two best athletes at WR that are actually good. I thought about writing that in my post but I thought it would be obvious. 

[Soko]

44 minutes ago, Tank4Drake said:

Chase and Jefferson are the two best athletes at WR that are actually good. I thought about writing that in my post but I thought it would be obvious. 

So it’s fine if we compare a rookie to Jefferson as an athlete, but if we compare the rest of the rookie class to Jefferson as an athlete, then all of a sudden they’re invalid because they’re not good enough yet? Makes sense.

5 hours ago, Soko said:

I’ve been over this before, but relying on RAS runs you down a pretty indefensible rabbit hole. 

Alec Pierce has a higher RAS than Jefferson and Tyreek Hill. Jonathan Mingo is higher. Denzel Mims is higher. Terrace Marshall Jr is higher. Johnny Wilson and Chris Godwin are virtually tied with JJ, and above Tyreek. Rome Odunze beats both. AT Perry beats both. DJ Chark beats both. Courtland Sutton beats both. Vincent Jackson nearly has a perfect score, higher than a Julio Jones and Randy Moss. So yeah, according to RAS, there are plenty of guys every single year on par/above Jefferson, but the stronger point really is: who in their right mind is putting any of the receivers mentioned (including Jefferson) athletically above Tyreek Hill? Nobody with eyes, tbf. 

JJ isn’t a special athlete in terms of speed, leaping ability, pure agility, strength, or size. He’s strong in all those areas, but special in none. Tyreek is transcendent in a couple of those, but since he’s three inches shorter, that makes him worse? I’m supposed to think two guys are comparable, despite one being a special mover and the other being a good but not great mover, because the not so great mover has bigger hand size and is heavier? Nah. RAS would have a 6’8, 270lb WR with a 4.9 forty and 10 inch vertical comparable to a 5’7, 165lb WR with a 4.1 forty and a 50 inch vert. It’s a loose ballpark of measurements but far from anything you should this seriously.

 

5 hours ago, Soko said:

When you’re looking at RAS, are you actually looking at the measurements, or taking the score and running with it? Like, Hill vs Jefferson. Hill didn’t measure his hands or arm length (Jefferson got good scores there), and JJ didn’t measure shuttle, 3 cone, (Hill scored great there) or bench (Hill scored low there). Jefferson wins in height and weight. Hill destroyed JJ in vertical. He destroyed him in the broad. Destroyed him in the 40. Beat him in the 20 yard split. And massacred him in the 10 yard split. So of everything they both measured in - Hill had much better scores in explosion (vertical, broad jump) and Jefferson was a little taller/heavier. The only 90th+ percentile score JJ had was his 29 yard split, meanwhile Tyreek breached that in the vertical jump, broad jump, 40 yard dash, 20 yard split, 10 yard split, 3-cone, and barely missed it by .03 in the shuttle. So you’re essentially saying the guy who doesn’t run as fast, isn’t as quick, and isn’t as explosive, is the better athlete…because he’s bigger. It doesn’t make sense, and it makes even less when you actually look at them move on the field. There is no more special athlete on the field than Tyreek Hill at any given time, and in this case, no, it’s not close between he and Jefferson there.

 

5 hours ago, Soko said:

So I’d ask, what does Jefferson do that’s special, athletically? Not stuff that involves nuance of the WR position, but as a pure athlete. Comparing him to a Tyreek Hill, what does JJ do better than Tyreek Hill? He’s taller and heavier, that’s about all I can see.

Cliff notes for you. RAS is a poorly weighted athletic number (height/weight/bench is as important as forty/vertical/broad at the WR position), and you can either look at the way it’s calculated or the way it’s implemented (Sutton over Tyreek Hill, lmao) to poke holes in it. You can compare both players’ RAS cards, and see one player clearly superior than the other (Hill vs Jefferson). So yeah, again, in what ways is Justin Jefferson an elite athlete, let alone an elite athlete at WR? Not speed, that’s measured. Not leaping ability, that’s measured. Not explosion, that’s measured. His height/weight is fine, but not special at WR. So what is it?

[HoboRocket]

19 hours ago, Soko said:

I mean, Jefferson isn’t really an otherworldly athlete, so that’s not really much of a comparison. He’s got good speed, but he’s not like Jaylen Waddle or Jameson Williams or something. He’s got good hops, but he’s not like CeeDee Lamb or DeAndre Hopkins. He’s quick, but he’s not Tyreek Hill. 

JJ’s a good athlete but what makes him special is his WR skillet, not his athletic traits. There are probably a couple handfuls of WRs in every draft class that are comparably athletic or more athletic than JJ.

Actually, he has hops just like D-Hop. I think Jefferson had an inch and a half on Hop at the Combine, but I called him a Hopkins clone pre-draft and got laughed at. Almost the exact same skill-set, though. Can outrun some but not most, good size, pretty good leaping ability, elite body control, loose hips, long frame. 

Jefferson and D-Hop are both solidly B+ tier athletes, but it's their body control and spatial awareness that makes them consistently beat up on better athletes.

[Soko]

1 hour ago, HoboRocket said:

Actually, he has hops just like D-Hop. I think Jefferson had an inch and a half on Hop at the Combine, but I called him a Hopkins clone pre-draft and got laughed at. Almost the exact same skill-set, though. Can outrun some but not most, good size, pretty good leaping ability, elite body control, loose hips, long frame. 

Jefferson and D-Hop are both solidly B+ tier athletes, but it's their body control and spatial awareness that makes them consistently beat up on better athletes.

This is one where, yes, they were similar combine measurements, but I don’t think they really manifest on the field. But that’s a subjective opinion, for sure. I’d say Hop has/had better pure hands too, but that’s separate from the topic on hand.

The majority of the rest of the post on Jefferson’s athleticism is objective, though.